AMD's GPU equivelents

[Buttefly]

As of writing this, the Big Navi reveal hasn't happened yet.

I am looking to upgrade my old R9 390 to a newer GPU. Currently the RTX 3080 is looking very lucrative, but since it's out of stock everywhere I'm not decided yet. 

If AMD can impress then I have no issues going with AMD. But my dilemma is about the extra things, does AMD have an equivelant to stuff like DLSS 2.0 and other nice-to-haves.

The nvenc encoder for streaming etc and raytracing capabilities.

I'm probably going to use this GPU for 5+ years so I'd like to have all the nice things I can.

I know that these questions might be hard to answer as their presenation is next week, but maybe something has been leaked, so I thought it'd be worth a shot.

TIA

[boggy77]

6 minutes ago, Buttefly said:

I know that these questions might be hard to answer as their presenation is next week

we don't know, wait for next week's presentation.

[Stahlmann]

Afaik AMD doesn't currently have anything equivalent to DLSS 2.0 or NVENC. Linus also said NVIDIA is worlds ahead of AMD in this regard. Also AMD never had any ray-tracing accelerated card, so there is absolutely no way to tell how good it will work. And if AMDs ray-tracing implementation even works with the "RTX" maketed apps will be another point alltogether. We'll have to see in the presentation.

[Buttefly]

10 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

Afaik AMD doesn't currently have anything equivalent to DLSS 2.0 or NVENC. Linus also said NVIDIA is worlds ahead of AMD in this regard. Also AMD never had any ray-tracing accelerated card, so there is absolutely no way to tell how good it will work. And if AMDs ray-tracing implementation even works with the "RTX" maketed apps will be another point alltogether. We'll have to see in the presentation.

We'll just have to see I guess. It'll be exciting but honestly if they can't match a lot of those things it's going to be NVIDIA this gen for me.

[Stahlmann]

5 minutes ago, Buttefly said:

We'll just have to see I guess. It'll be exciting but honestly if they can't match a lot of those things it's going to be NVIDIA this gen for me.

Yeah i already have a 3080 and didn't bother to wait for AMD because i don't expect them to meet a lot of features of the RTX GPUs. Maybe performance will be competitive, but they still have a long way to go to match NVIDIA in terms of the overall package you get with your GPU. There are just so many nice bonuses you get with the RTX cards...

 

For example NVIDIA only took 1-2 weeks to get the stability problems sorted out after launch. If i remember correctly after the 5700XT launch it took AMD at least a few months until they started to sort their driver issues out.

[Buttefly]

Just now, Stahlmann said:

Yeah i already have a 3080 and didn't bother to wait for AMD because i don't expect them to meet a lot of features of the RTX GPUs. Maybe performance will be competitive, but they still have a long way to go to match NVIDIA in terms of the overall package you get with your GPU. There are just so many nice bonuses you get with the RTX cards...

Exactly, would've gotten myself a 3080 long time ago but NVIDIA doesn't sell the FE cards in Sweden and that's the only card that'll fit my chassi

[Stahlmann]

1 minute ago, Buttefly said:

Exactly, would've gotten myself a 3080 long time ago but NVIDIA doesn't sell the FE cards in Sweden and that's the only card that'll fit my chassi

What is the problem? Height or length?

[Buttefly]

2 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

What is the problem? Height or length?

290mm max length, 2 slot

[Stahlmann]

2 minutes ago, Buttefly said:

290mm max length, 2 slot

All EVGA XC3 variants fit into these dimensions:

 

EVGA RTX 3080 XC3 Gaming

EVGA RTX 3080 XC3 Black Gaming

EVGA RTX 3080 XC3 Ultra Gaming

[Buttefly]

1 minute ago, Stahlmann said:

All EVGA XC3 variants fit into these dimensions:

 

EVGA RTX 3080 XC3 Gaming

EVGA RTX 3080 XC3 Black Gaming

EVGA RTX 3080 XC3 Ultra Gaming

Holy shit, had no idea! Asked around with no luck. Thanks!!

[igormp]

AMD has had a media encoder/decoder since a long time ago, called VCN now. The quality is okaish, but not on par with NVENC, we'll see if they'll catch up on this next gen.

[BTGbullseye]

1 hour ago, Stahlmann said:

Afaik AMD doesn't currently have anything equivalent to DLSS 2.0 or NVENC.

 

47 minutes ago, igormp said:

AMD has had a media encoder/decoder since a long time ago, called VCN now. The quality is okaish, but not on par with NVENC, we'll see if they'll catch up on this next gen.

The modern version of VCN in the 5700XT is on-par with Turing's NVENC in both performance and visual fidelity. The RX 6000 series' VCN is supposed to be at least on par with the Ampere GPUs NVENC. (both adding support for AV1 decoding in hardware)

[igormp]

6 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

 

The modern version of VCN in the 5700XT is on-par with Turing's NVENC in both performance and visual fidelity. The RX 6000 series' VCN is supposed to be at least on par with the Ampere GPUs NVENC. (both adding support for AV1 decoding in hardware)

It is not. Their encoder fares way worse than the current NVENC, and is just marginally better than Polaris' one. Their software stack is also a mess and they don't seen to care, ffmpeg still has no support whatsoever for VCN on linux.

See for yourself.

 

Ampere's encoder is the same of the one found in turing, the decoder just got some minimal updates to support AV1.

[BTGbullseye]

2 hours ago, igormp said:

Their software stack is also a mess and they don't seen to care, ffmpeg still has no support whatsoever for VCN on linux.

Software support is bad, but that does not have any effect on the hardware capability.

2 hours ago, igormp said:

See for yourself.

Anything above extremely low bitrate, (which is not used in the real world anyways) they are perceptually the same. Pixel perfection is not required for identical visual perception results.

[igormp]

4 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

Software support is bad, but that does not have any effect on the hardware capability.

Anything above extremely low bitrate, (which is not used in the real world anyways) they are perceptually the same. Pixel perfection is not required for identical visual perception results.

Even at 5~10mbps (which is widely used for streaming) AMD's quality is WAY worse. If you can't notice it, well, good for you I guess.

[BTGbullseye]

21 minutes ago, igormp said:

Even at 5~10mbps (which is widely used for streaming) AMD's quality is WAY worse. If you can't notice it, well, good for you I guess.

The video happened shortly before a driver patch that fixed the problems with the VCN encoding system that resulted in the lower visual fidelity shown in the video. If you can STILL see the difference after the patch, you are nowhere near human perception norms.

[igormp]

14 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

The video happened shortly before a driver patch that fixed the problems with the VCN encoding system that resulted in the lower visual fidelity shown in the video. If you can STILL see the difference after the patch, you are nowhere near human perception norms.

It's still bad. Even NVENC using h264 is better than VCE using h265 with higher bitrates. Heck, even Intel's QuickSync beats VCN most of the time. 

 

 

If you tell me that you can't notice the difference in most scenarios, then your eyes must be really bad.

[BTGbullseye]

3 hours ago, igormp said:

It's still bad. Even NVENC using h264 is better than VCE using h265 with higher bitrates. Heck, even Intel's QuickSync beats VCN most of the time. 

 

 

If you tell me that you can't notice the difference in most scenarios, then your eyes must be really bad.

Even in that video, he specifies that that it only applicable at lower bitrates. x265 on either platform is equivalent, unless you're looking for a couple pixels that are a slightly different color. 99% of his "AMD is in a bad state" was caused by a lack of support in software at the settings that he uses.