fittings Connecting hard to soft tubing

[Wizwerd]

Hey guys, I'm trying to finish my parts order for my custom loop.  I'm planning on connecting my loop to an external mora3 radiator and I wanted to have the hard tubes from the top of the distroplate reach over the back of the case and connect the hard tubes to soft tubing (zmt) type tubes and from there reach to the d5 pump that I'm attaching to the radiator.  My problem is that I don't know what fittings or size tubing I need to connect my 14mm acrylic tubing from EK in order to do this.

 

I had some help in discords but I'm trying to finish the ordering process and I wasn't able to get clarification.  So far from what I understand is that I need x2 f-f adapter but after that im completely lost.

 

I listed my current parts list order so feel free to critique but I'm pretty set with the list so far.

 

I understand that the distroplate isn't made for my case but I'm trying to see if I can mount it anyway.  The dimensions will fit but I expect that the mounting screws on the back might not and that I might need to make adjustments to the case in order to make it fit.  If it doesn't I can still return it.

 

I drew a picture with how I planned on having it sit on my desk, I do have enough desk space to fit both the case and the rad.

 

Thought I'd share my thought process on this a bit more. I saw some guy cut a hole in the mora feet for his hard tubing to pass through, I thought it was a cool idea and that I might try that out as well.  

 

 

[Wizwerd]

pls respond :[

[For Science!]

19 hours ago, Wizwerd said:

pls respond :[

...well...since you said you are using 14 mm OD hard tubing, on one side of the F-F adaptor you will need hard tubing fittings that work with 14 mm OD hard tubing, and on the other side, you will need soft tubing fitting that work with whatever ID/OD ZMT tubing you decide to go for.

 

Practically speaking though, you probably want to consider at least a couple of quick disconnects so that you can uncouple the external radiator from the system without leaking everything out.

[For Science!]

Apart from that, a distro-plate's purpose is to clean up tubing runs linking multiple parts of a loop together while minimizing the number of tubes/bends visible.

 

Installing a distro-plate not designed for the case and also linking parts willy-nilly is a sure-fire way to make the loop look like a**. Especially in your case when using an external radiator.

 

My recommendation is to use that space on the case for its intended purpose, get a radiator and fans for it. Or alternatively look for a case that saves that space so that you don't have a chunck of dead space on the right side of the motherboard.

[Wizwerd]

14 hours ago, For Science! said:

...well...since you said you are using 14 mm OD hard tubing, on one side of the F-F adaptor you will need hard tubing fittings that work with 14 mm OD hard tubing, and on the other side, you will need soft tubing fitting that work with whatever ID/OD ZMT tubing you decide to go for.

yeah I contacted EK and they responded saying:

 

Hello,
Thank you for contacting us today ‍
you would need a f-f extender so you could connect the hard tube fitting on one side and the soft tube on the other side, unfortunately, the only 13mm soft tube fitting we have that would work with the zmt would be these which are just barbed fittings not full fittings so you would still need a clamp with them
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/fittings/barbed-fittings/for-13mm-1-2-id-tubing
and the f-f extender would be one like this
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-af-extender-12mm-f-f-g1-4-black
If you have any other questions or need any additional help please feel free to ask
Best regards, Chris

 

I don't think I fully understand.  Do the tubing sizes need to be the same on the ID or would the soft tube be ok being smaller?  I figured if the ID was smaller then the pump will just have a little more head pressure to deal with which is fine since I'll have 2 pumps.  Since chris said only the barbed fittings will fit and that i'll need a "clamp" with them, I'm not sure what the clamp looks like in this case or if they even sell them.

 

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Practically speaking though, you probably want to consider at least a couple of quick disconnects so that you can uncouple the external radiator from the system without leaking everything out.

yeah that's a good idea but the only quick disconnect EK has is this 10 mm coupling and based on the details I think my tubes don't match up?  10/13mm (soft) tubing and two additonal clamps are designed to be used with 10/16mm (hard) tubing?

 

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Apart from that, a distro-plate's purpose is to clean up tubing runs linking multiple parts of a loop together while minimizing the number of tubes/bends visible.

 

Installing a distro-plate not designed for the case and also linking parts willy-nilly is a sure-fire way to make the loop look like a**. Especially in your case when using an external radiator.

 

Negative nancy man

 

I've seen p3 builds with distro plates attached where you would put the radiator and they look awesome but bykski was the only manufacturer that even made a specific distro for it and it has a ddc pump with a lot of bad reviews.  The dimensions show that the distro I ordered fits the space so there shouldn't be any "dead space".  Worst case scenario is that the mounting screws don't line up with the holes provided on the p3.  For that I can get a bracket and make holes for the mounting screws so it will fit.

 

I've been working on this build for several months now so I'm not exactly linking parts willy nilly.  I tried contacting several custom distro shops to see if they could fabricate a custom plate but they refused since it probably didn't seem worthwhile for them and suggested using one of their universal distro's instead.  I didn't do that cause their universal ones look ugly imo.

 

When it came to fittings I had overlooked that most people don't ever connect soft - hard tubing and I assumed EK with their standard tubing sizes would be able to match something like this but I was wrong, my mistake.  I didn't do enough research on the tubing because I didn't think it would be a potential problem,  just pick a size that you think looks good and match the fitting and you're all done!  Well that was true until I decided on this MO-RA3.  Although the picture I linked looks fantastic I didn't really care to have my radiators hanging off the top/side of the case.  If anything I thought it would be easier to use this MO-RA3 and just run a soft tube to it.  No big deal right?

 

Don't be so quick to judge what It will look like man.  I picked the case because of how easy it is to see and reach everything.  Don't have to struggle to get your fingers to screw something inside of a blocky case.  I was going to wall mount both the case and the rad but I don't think I can hang 40 pounds of weight on the walls next to my desk : /

 

Now that I think about it,  I could get fittings/tubes from another website.

 

Sorry for the wall of text lol, I'm just so frustrated with trying to find what seems like simple answers to simple questions and being judged on the entire build without a straight answer to the original question.

 

 

[Wizwerd]

Alright I looked into it a bit more, so they do have clamps which look like these https://www.ekwb.com/shop/tube-clamp-pvc-13-15mm-black

 

So hes saying I put this on the soft tubing side so the barbed stays attached?  I read their article on fittings a couple of times over, It didn't sink in at first but I think I'm willing to compromise on zmt if it means I can get a compression fitting on there so its better secured.

 

also didn't realize that the ID didn't matter in this case because they're both 10mm its that the OD is 1mm larger on the hard tubing.

 

 

[For Science!]

Okay, I'm willing to work with you, but please understand that you are lacking quite a lot of basics, so we need to be patient with each other since I don't know what you know and what you don't know. Also know that without specific information about which exact tubes you want to go for, a recommendation for a suitable fitting is impossible.

 

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Do the tubing sizes need to be the same on the ID

No, in a loop you can mix tubing sizes as at the end the limiting flow is from waterblocks so tubing size does not impact overall flow to any significant degree. They also all terminate in G1/4" so are bottlenecked at each end anyway.

 

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I'm not sure what the clamp looks like in this case or if they even sell them

 

So hes saying I put this on the soft tubing side so the barbed stays attached? 

Yes, you found them, but they can be as simple as zip ties too. They are more like insurance, as normally they do have enough grip to hold their own, but over time the tubing does stretch, so it is a very good idea to use them.

 

4 hours ago, Wizwerd said:

I read their article on fittings a couple of times over, It didn't sink in at first but I think I'm willing to compromise on zmt if it means I can get a compression fitting on there so its better secured.

I'm not entirely sure why chris did not point out the ZMT comes in different thicknesses of which one is 15.9/9.5 (https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-tube-zmt-matte-black-15-9-9-5mm) this works with 10/16 mm STC compression fittings (https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-torque-stc-10-16-black)

 

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also didn't realize that the ID didn't matter in this case because they're both 10mm its that the OD is 1mm larger on the hard tubing.

Sorry not sure if I understand your statement here, but for soft tubing ID does matter for compression fittings and the inner section is essentially a barb fitting. For hard tubing it does not matter as all the O-rings are on the outer portion of the tube. See the two illustrations below:

 

Soft tubing (ID and OD matters)

 

Hard tubing (only OD matters, usually)

 

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yeah that's a good idea but the only quick disconnect EK has is this 10 mm coupling and based on the details I think my tubes don't match up?  10/13mm (soft) tubing and two additonal clamps are designed to be used with 10/16mm (hard) tubing?

As these are barb ends, you can only attach them to 10 mm ID soft tubing, so in essence will work with the 10 mm ID tubing either as you mention, or the 15.9/9.5 I mentioned above. Although honestly, I would consider something from Koolance than the plastic QDC from EK as the metal finish is much more aesthetically pleasing. EK has some kits IIRC (https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-pro-cpu-quick-disconnect-kit) 

 

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I've seen p3 builds with distro plates attached where you would put the radiator and they look awesome but bykski was the only manufacturer that even made a specific distro for it and it has a ddc pump with a lot of bad reviews.  The dimensions show that the distro I ordered fits the space so there shouldn't be any "dead space".  Worst case scenario is that the mounting screws don't line up with the holes provided on the p3.  For that I can get a bracket and make holes for the mounting screws so it will fit.

Your build, so you do you. The linked build only "works" because they installed two radiators in atypical locations and so there actually was a flow that needed to be distributed. In your situation you only have the CPU tubing that needs to get out to the external radiator, so I assume a whole lot of ports of the distro will need to be connected to each other to complete the loop.

 

From here is my opinion so feel free to gloss over it, but I think part of the reason for getting an external radiator is so that you can cool some sick components while keeping it very minimal and clean on the PC side. Otherwise, it would be better to just get a big case that can fit large radiators and keep it all in one clean package. That's why I think the best pairing of external radiators are actually mini-ITX systems.

 

See an example of a badly implemented distro plate, a distro plate for the sake of a distro-plate does not look good. All the connections that need to sealed to get a complete loop if not placed correctly just leads to a mass of guts on the distro plate

 

5 hours ago, Wizwerd said:

Sorry for the wall of text lol, I'm just so frustrated with trying to find what seems like simple answers to simple questions and being judged on the entire build without a straight answer to the original question.

Answers can only be simple if the question is simple. Unfortunately your questions are fairly broad to cover as seen in my answers above in as much detail as possible. Imagine being a person having to answer a question from a frustrated person who thinks it should be simple but it is not.

 

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Now that I think about it,  I could get fittings/tubes from another website.

Yes, that was always an option. My recommendation for you is to get the tubing and fittings from the same website as they can have strange measurement differences between them, so ordering from the same manufacturer "guarantees" compatibility to some extent.

 

[Wizwerd]

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Answers can only be simple if the question is simple. Unfortunately your questions are fairly broad to cover as seen in my answers above in as much detail as possible. Imagine being a person having to answer a question from a frustrated person who thinks it should be simple but it is not.

ya I get you, that's why I really appreciate the reply and the help you've given.  I'll need some time to digest this.  I got a reply from chris earlier this morning so right now I'm adding all the fittings for the zmt tubing but I'm not sure which ones fit the 15,9/9,5mm you recommended.  I drew a sketch of what it will kind of look like.  Right now the Idea is to attach a pass through bracket at the top (not sure if that fits) of the p3 and run the hard tubing to the top of the bracket and make the switch to zmt at the top and add a QDC from EK near the top of the loop.

 

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 I would consider something from Koolance than the plastic QDC from EK as the metal finish is much more aesthetically pleasing.

I can't disagree with that, but looking through their site they have different models for the same fittings?

 

I think this one fits https://koolance.com/qd3-fsg4-bk-quick-disconnect-no-spill-coupling-female-threaded-g-1-4-black  not sure though.

 

Also do you think the weight of the metal QDC's would cause a potential wear & tear or leak?  These guys who've been helping me in discord a bit were more concerned about that than I was.

 

My room is pretty dark so the ZMT will kind of blend in the background and not be noticeable with the main focus being on the case or the rad.

 

Main reason I got the MO-RA were the reviews I read and watched saying they still used their mora since they bought it in 2011.  I liked the idea of an open case and now that I can keep this massive radiator between builds is pretty awesome.  I plan on only sticking to clear fluids or concentrates to minimize potential gunk in the loop and I bought my coolants from mayhems.

 

 

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See an example of a badly implemented distro plate

Ya you have a point there as well.  It does look more gutty with the soft tubing being noticeably worse than the hard tubing.

 

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Okay, I'm willing to work with you, but please understand that you are lacking quite a lot of basics, so we need to be patient with each other since I don't know what you know and what you don't know. Also know that without specific information about which exact tubes you want to go for, a recommendation for a suitable fitting is impossible.

My bad dude, I started replying a bit all over the place here haha.  I'm trying to be flexible with the tubing/fittings incase if something doesn't work.  I would prefer to keep it 14mm hard acrylic tubing with nickel plated ek classic fittings because I think they look the best.  With the soft tubing I think ZMT and nickel plated classic fitttings too works/looks best.   With ZMT won't have to worry about the quality of the tubing degrading over a short period of time and the darkness of the ZMT would match well with the dark corner of my computer room.

 

I added a picture of where I planned on running the tubes and I added a picture of the cart for the soft fittings I needed.  I probably don't need all those STC 10/16 fittings.  I think i only needed 8? and 4 clamps?  unless if im going all clamps then I would probably need 16 i think.

 

 

I might have missed something, my dad came over and I lost my train of thought in the middle of this reply haha.  He took an interest cause he knows about fittings for plumbing a bit and wanted me to run down to the hardware store and use garden hoses & stuff ahaha.  Hes a boomer, can't be helped.

 

 

 

[For Science!]

25 minutes ago, Wizwerd said:

 

 

Are you cooling the GPU too? As a minimum I can say that the above routing will not work and you GPU will not get any flow whatsoever. Anyway, after you tell me whether you intend on watercooling the GPU, I will put down what I would do de novo, and what I would do following some of your guidelines. 

 

As a secondary point how do you intend on powering the pump and fans on the external rad? will you and how did you intend on syncing it with the powering of your PC. Or did you just intend on manually switching it on and off as you turn your PC on and off?

[Wizwerd]

Ya, I'm going to buy one of the 3080's or 2100's whatever they're going to name it.  I hear they will draw more power than the 2080's so I did want to go overboard with the radiator.

 

The gpu should get coolant, if i don't start the loop at the open port above the pump.  Should go from that line to the GPU and from the GPU back into the center line and from the center line to the CPU and from the CPU to the top left bottom port etc.  It seems pretty straight forward to me.

 

When it comes to power I figured that the pump would plug into the PSU?  I assumed you could power on one pump and leave the other unplugged while you fill the loop and then restart the computer with both pumps plugged in.  If the power from the pump on the rad isn't long enough I'm sure they make power extensions for it.  

 

But yeah manually turning the computer on and off if need be.

[For Science!]

4 minutes ago, Wizwerd said:

The gpu should get coolant, if i don't start the loop at the open port above the pump.  Should go from that line to the GPU and from the GPU back into the center line and from the center line to the CPU and from the CPU to the top left bottom port etc.  It seems pretty straight forward to me.

It will bypass the GPU as there is a path of lower resistance between them (i.e straight through the distroplate). At least have a read through the distroplate manual and see that you need to 

 

Actually its even more simple than that, there isn't even a threaded hole there where you point. But nonetheless even if there was, you MUST understand that it will bypass. This is really critical understanding of fluid dynamics that you need to have before attempting watercooling.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Wizwerd said:

When it comes to power I figured that the pump would plug into the PSU?  I assumed you could power on one pump and leave the other unplugged while you fill the loop and then restart the computer with both pumps plugged in.  If the power from the pump on the rad isn't long enough I'm sure they make power extensions for it. 

Do you intend on having a long Molex power emanating from your PC's PSU and stretching all the way across the room to reach the pump on the radiator? I'm talking about when the loop is finished and you need to use it day-to-day, not just for the filling process. I guess it'll work but kinda weird for a external radiator to be dependent on the PC. Also are you going to have 9 (or whatever) fan cables that all need extensions connecting to the main PC? its going to one big fat bundle of cables that travel with the ZMT tubing, have a think about whether that is actually what you want.

[For Science!]

Even if there was a third port, to achieve what you describe (pictured below) you would need something to block the flow between the first port and 2nd, indicated by the red line.

 

 

Otherwise what you have is a 3-way splitter of the flow as the pump is only pushing and there are no directionality valves in the system. And so if you hooked up two of these ports together, they will just push against each other and so you will get no flow, and it will just bypass that section. Basically its a glorified stop plug.

 

 

 

So that's why you have to really understand where to connect things with a distro-plate so that a loop that flows is actually completed. It's also why it doesn't really make sense to use one for very simple single radiator systems as its probably just cleaner to route the tubing directly to the components.

[Wizwerd]

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 all the way across the room to reach the pump

It will be less than three feet of cable to the pump.  I can route the molex under, through or behind the case.  I am aware about how big of a cable mess is going to be back there with the 9 + 4 fans.  Especially when they're corsair fans lol.

[Wizwerd]

4 minutes ago, For Science! said:

Even if there was a third port, to achieve what you describe (pictured below) you would need something to block the flow between the first port and 2nd, indicated by the red line.

 

 

Otherwise what you have is a 3-way splitter of the flow as the pump is only pushing and there are no directionality valves in the system. And so if you hooked up two of these ports together, they will just push against each other and so you will get no flow, and it will just bypass that section. Basically its a glorified stop plug.

 

 

 

So that's why you have to really understand where to connect things with a distro-plate so that a loop that flows is actually completed. It's also why it doesn't really make sense to use one for very simple single radiator systems as its probably just cleaner to route the tubing directly to the components.

yeah the last picture is close, but from the CPU to the rad I would use the top right fillport to run from the rad back to the plate and then run a connect tube to bring it back to the main pool. 

[For Science!]

1 minute ago, Wizwerd said:

yeah the last picture is close, but from the CPU to the rad I would use the top right fillport to run from the rad back to the plate and then run a connect tube to bring it back to the main pool. 

Sure, there's more than one way to achieve that part of the loop, but do you understand know why the you wouldn't get flow on the GPU if there was a third port?

[Wizwerd]

Just now, For Science! said:

Sure, there's more than one way to achieve that part of the loop, but do you understand know why the you wouldn't get flow on the GPU if there was a third port?

I understand why I need to  block that port next to the pump yeah.

 

I just need to double check and make sure I have all the correct fittings for the soft tubing run and for the hard tubing to the pass through and I think I should be set.

[For Science!]

1 minute ago, Wizwerd said:

I think I should be set.

If you think so, then I will leave you be. have fun!