Compromise build

[jones177]

Budget (including currency):

No budget since I don't know that the next high end Nvidia GPUs will cost.

 

i9 10900k  $549.99

ASUS ROG Maximus XII Hero Z490 $399.99

G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600  $149.99

Crucial P1 1TB 3D NAND NVMe PCIe Internal SSD, up to 2000 MB/s $104.99

 be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 $89.90

CORSAIR - RMx Series 850W $159.99

Streacom BC1.1S test bench $169

EVGA GTX 1080 ti SC2  already own

 

Country: 

USA

 

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: 

Modded games, simulations and testing.

 

Other details

I call it a compromise build because I can't get some of the parts I wanted for it and the SSD is an experiment in itself.

I wanted to get a NZXT Kraken X72 360mm or a X63 280mm cooler but they have been out of stock for ever and the ones available are silly priced. 

I also wanted a 1200 watt power supply since this setup my use 2 RTX 2080 tis at some point. The 850 will be replaced when reasonably prices 1200s become available.

 

The 1tb Crucial P1 is an experiment because my 2tb 970 EVO has been a bit of a waist. Only one of my modded games use the extra speed over my SATA SSDs but I think the P1 may be fast enough. If it is I will save money in the long run.

 

It will use a GTX 1080 ti until the new cards come out. The tests that I will be doing for a while are all CPU and a 1080 ti can handle the graphics just fine. 

 

 The Streacom BC1.1S is my second choice for a bench since I wanted the one Jay's Two Cents uses but it is unavailable. I went with the Streacom BC1 because LTT did a very nice video on it. I may decide to put all this in a case and put one of my i7 8086ks as an open bench testing rig. Time will tell.  

 

This whole build is an experiment to see if Thermal Velocity Boost Frequency can solve a problem I am having. If not it will be next gen Intel or AMD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LIGISTX]

3 minutes ago, jones177 said:

Other details

I call it a compromise build because I can't get some of the parts I wanted for it and the SSD is an experiment in itself.

I wanted to get a NZXT Kraken X72 360mm or a X63 280mm cooler but they have been out of stock for ever and the ones available are silly priced. 

I also wanted a 1200 watt power supply since this setup my use 2 RTX 2080 tis at some point. The 850 will be replaced when reasonably prices 1200s become available.

 

The 1tb Crucial P1 is an experiment because my 2tb 970 EVO has been a bit of a waist. Only one of my modded games use the extra speed over my SATA SSDs but I think the P1 may be fast enough. If it is I will save money in the long run.

 

This whole build is an experiment to see if Thermal Velocity Boost Frequency can solve a problem I am having. If not it will be next gen Intel or AMD.

 

The nvme drive will likely make no difference... I wasn't able to tell a difference. But.... they also cost about the same as a standard SATA drive, so.... why not get one.

 

Why would TVB help you..? What is the problem you are trying to solve with it? Your 8086 should realistically overclock about the same as a 10900k, maybe 1-200 MHz less. It certainly has less cores.... but if the issue is related to clock speed, there won't be much difference.

[jones177]

3 minutes ago, LIGISTX said:

The nvme drive will likely make no difference... I wasn't able to tell a difference. But.... they also cost about the same as a standard SATA drive, so.... why not get one.

 

Why would TVB help you..? What is the problem you are trying to solve with it? Your 8086 should realistically overclock about the same as a 10900k, maybe 1-200 MHz less. It certainly has less cores.... but if the issue is related to clock speed, there won't be much difference.

My hobby is to add extra content to games and simulations. By nature they use old engines and only use one or two cores.

Right now with Xplane I am at about 24fps on the ground at Heathrow and that is with an i7 at 5.1ghz and a RTX 2080 ti.  The 2080ti is about at idle since it is an opengl game.

 

Some of my modded Bethesda games have so much content that they will only run smooth with a 5ghz all core overclock. Since I would like to add more content I need more ghz.

 

I hope you are right about the SSD. My modded games will not run at all on a HDD but all but one does fine on a SATA SSD so the P1 is for only one game. 

 

The i7 8086ks will overclock to 5.2ghz but these games don't like anything past 5ghz and that is the single core max turbo frequency of the i7 8086k. I am hoping that the games will like the max turbo frequency of the i9(5.3ghz).  If not it will have been a very expensive experiment.

I still have an i7 6700k in a computer I would like to retire so it will not be a total waste if it fails.

 

I have been doing this sort of thing since 2000 starting with MS Flight Simulator so it is not a new fad with me and it is the way I upgrade my equipment. 

 

 

[LIGISTX]

3 hours ago, jones177 said:

My hobby is to add extra content to games and simulations. By nature they use old engines and only use one or two cores.

Right now with Xplane I am at about 24fps on the ground at Heathrow and that is with an i7 at 5.1ghz and a RTX 2080 ti.  The 2080ti is about at idle since it is an opengl game.

 

Some of my modded Bethesda games have so much content that they will only run smooth with a 5ghz all core overclock. Since I would like to add more content I need more ghz.

 

I hope you are right about the SSD. My modded games will not run at all on a HDD but all but one does fine on a SATA SSD so the P1 is for only one game. 

 

The i7 8086ks will overclock to 5.2ghz but these games don't like anything past 5ghz and that is the single core max turbo frequency of the i7 8086k. I am hoping that the games will like the max turbo frequency of the i9(5.3ghz).  If not it will have been a very expensive experiment.

I still have an i7 6700k in a computer I would like to retire so it will not be a total waste if it fails.

 

I have been doing this sort of thing since 2000 starting with MS Flight Simulator so it is not a new fad with me and it is the way I upgrade my equipment. 

 

 

Thats awesome! What a cool hobby. But I guess I am just not sure why it would "like" the 10900k's 5.3 vs your 8086's 5.2... Is the 8086 not actually stable at 5.2? What do you mean by "doesn't like"? Is 200 MHz going to make that much of a difference for you? Can't pump volts a bit in the 8086, or turn off HT/disable some cores to get the clocks on just 2 or 4 cores up higher?

[jones177]

6 hours ago, LIGISTX said:

Thats awesome! What a cool hobby. But I guess I am just not sure why it would "like" the 10900k's 5.3 vs your 8086's 5.2... Is the 8086 not actually stable at 5.2? What do you mean by "doesn't like"? Is 200 MHz going to make that much of a difference for you? Can't pump volts a bit in the 8086, or turn off HT/disable some cores to get the clocks on just 2 or 4 cores up higher?

I did not test the 5.2ghhz for stability. I only got it to get through Cinebench R15 and then the games.

I use Noctua nh-d15 to cool the 8086s. Even with 5.1ghz they idle between 32 and 34c. At 5.2 they idle in the low 40s. At 5.2 like 5.1 there is literally no performance gain. So no point in trying to get it stable. 

 

I find that there are performance plateaus with these chips. I first came across it when testing my i7 8700k against the i7 8080k. I replaced the i7 8700k because it could not do 5ghz stable. The plateau is at 5ghz. On normal games and benches this was not a big deal when paired with a GTX 1080 ti but with a 2080 ti it became a big deal. To give you an idea, it made my EVGA FTW3 Ultra lose pitted against my EVGA XC. Basically paying $1500 for a GPU and have it beaten by a $1200 GPU.

 

The games crash a lot going over 5ghz. Strangely before the last major Windows update they ran at 5.1 with no issues but after I had to remove all my overclocks for a while. This only effected games that used the Havok physics engine like Space Engineers and Fallout 4. I am back up to 5ghz now but 5.1 still crashes. It is not a big deal since the performance gain I get from 5.1 is about zero.

 

According to Gamers Nexus the next performance plateau after 5ghz is at 5.35ghz with a i7 8086k so it is a dead end. The i9 is starting at 5.3 so maybe that is enough for these games. They are totally CPU bound even at 4k so anything may help. 

 

I already know that with my i7 8086k/FTW3 Ultra can beat an i9 10900k if it uses a lesser 2080 ti so the plan is not to overclock the i9 and let TVB do its thing. I would feel better if I could have gotten an 360mm AIO that I like but that is why it will be on an open bench at first.   

 

I don't disable cores because these games are really rough with less than 6. It is a night and day difference. They did not get smother with a i9 9900k so I don't think I really needs more than 6.  If the i5 10600k could boost like the i9 I would have gotten one but it looks like they are slightly under the performance of the 8086k. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LIGISTX]

10 hours ago, jones177 said:

I don't disable cores because these games are really rough with less than 6. It is a night and day difference. They did not get smother with a i9 9900k so I don't think I really needs more than 6.  If the i5 10600k could boost like the i9 I would have gotten one but it looks like they are slightly under the performance of the 8086k. 

Sure seems like your getting really close to actually needing some direct die cooling to push the 10900 to 5.3 all the time without issues. Does upping the cache speed help? Does upping memory speed help? 

[jones177]

10 hours ago, LIGISTX said:

Sure seems like your getting really close to actually needing some direct die cooling to push the 10900 to 5.3 all the time without issues. Does upping the cache speed help? Does upping memory speed help? 

I don't know what will help. That is why it will be on an open bench for a while. 

 

Some people seem to get 5.3ghz with the Hero XII but others don't. It will be strange to have to gamble on a CPU being good after the i7 8086k since they were all good.

 

I did order a 360mm AIO. It is by SilverStone and is only $130. Every time I buy something from that company I am impressed by the build quality. Hopefully I will with this. 

I will still install the Dark Rock Pro and run some tests but I always seem to have one laying around. The last one I bought took a year to get into a case. 

[LIGISTX]

15 hours ago, jones177 said:

Some people seem to get 5.3ghz with the Hero XII but others don't. It will be strange to have to gamble on a CPU being good after the i7 8086k since they were all good.

I had a really good 8700k... got pretty lucky with it. My 9900k....... not so lucky. 8700k did 5 GHz all day long at 1.300v, and temps were fantastic! 9900k has decent volts, but I just can't cool the damn thing. It has 5.1 GHz in its heart, but I can't keep it cool enough to do it :/. I wish you all the silicon lottery luck!

[jones177]

7 minutes ago, LIGISTX said:

I had a really good 8700k... got pretty lucky with it. My 9900k....... not so lucky. 8700k did 5 GHz all day long at 1.300v, and temps were fantastic! 9900k has decent volts, but I just can't cool the damn thing. It has 5.1 GHz in its heart, but I can't keep it cool enough to do it :/. I wish you all the silicon lottery luck!

Thanks.

 

I put together an i9 9900k rig for my Son. He is only in town for about 3 days in a month but I wanted him to have a nice rig when he is here. It did 5ghz all cores with 1.27v and it is very cool. If the i9 10900k does not work out I will swop it out for the i9 9900k rig. He does video editing so he will like the extra cores and I can push the i9 9900k and see what happens. 

 

[jones177]

UPDATE:

I am returning the Maximus XII Hero.

I bought G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB DDR4 3600 for the build but it would not boot with XMP enabled. I got it to work at 3200 with a G.SKILL kit out of one of my other computers but it randomly blue screened and rebooted itself.

I then tried some Corsair 4000 ram and Windows refused to load. I went back to the G.SKILL 3200 kit and still Windows refused to load. 

I reinstalled Windows and then it went back to randomly blue screening and rebooting.

 

While I am waiting for the motherboard I will reformat the Crucial P1 and run tests on it again but everything checked out with CrystalDisk before so I expect it will pass any tests again.   

 

I feel that I am unprepared for this sort of thing since all off my builds have been trouble free for years.  I forgot how frustrating it can be when things go wrong.

 

If you think I am missing something please let me know.