Is it *actually* worth waiting for Zen 3?

[Hyper_V]

So I'm stuck in a bit of a rough spot right now. I have an i7 4770/ gtx 970 system, and since it's summer I've thought about upgrading it. As for the gpu, I'll still squeeze some more life out of it since I can actually comfortably wait for big navi as that seems like it'll be quite a decent jump forward. 
As for the cpu, well..
a 4770 would still be alright in my case, but, I want to move on to something more modern (I also primarily want to get rid of this horrible god forsaken alienware x51 board). I intend to do mostly gaming (which i'll upgrade to a 2070S or similarly powerful new gpu in the future - targeting 1440p60 for sightseeing games and then 144fps for league and valorant) as well as some modest content creation - streaming, 1080p to maybe 4k editing (it'll be years before I get a 4k camera anyway lol), and then some lighter 3d modeling and other productivity stuff, but nothing too crazy. 
Initially my eyes were set dead straight on the r5 3600, as with most people. However, considering the awkward timing, everywhere I look up I see people yelling at me to wait for Zen 3. 

Given my use cases (and considering I don't really need the latest and greatest possible hardware) I'm wondering if it's worth waiting.
I'd say Zen2 is in a pretty good spot right now, single threaded stuff, which was previously still kinda nagging zen and zen+, is now incredibly solid. Am I correct in assuming that Zen3 won't be as much of a jump in performance as Zen2 was?
It seems that way, at least.
Plus the added fact of (iirc, but please correct me if i'm wrong) the impending EOL of the am4 socket - as the 5 year promise has been (or will be, with zen 3) fulfilled and zen4 will be on a new socket anyway, I'd have to swap motherboards when upgrading regardless.
If I bought this thing last year it would probably hold me well for 4-5 years, so getting it now for 3-4 still seems like an alright idea, especially with a mild to moderate OC whenever I get my hands on a better cooler.

As for the board, I'm fairly certain I don't need anything in line of x570 as I realistically won't be taking advantage of pcie gen4 (decent nvme m.2 ssds are a bit of a premium for me as is, plus i dont think it would realistically matter that much long term) or any other super high end features. I was thinking x470 or probably more likely b450 (yeah yeah, I know, >buying b450 in 2020).
Mostly cause of the previous notion that down the line, upgrading from zen2 to zen3 wouldn't really be that big of a performance boost and for anything beyond I'd have to swap motherboards entirely anyway  (Also considering b550s are hilariously expensive as of right now, and I don't want to go for the lowest possible budget mini itx board that's available as I do need some extra pcie slots).
Maybe I could find some good deals on x470 boards as well, though they're a bit harder to find nowadays and idk if I'd be missing out that much if going for a b450 anyway.

I'd appreciate to hear your thoughts regarding this and give me some insight on the entire situation. Thank you all in advance for any informative replies.

[ColdPressCoconutOil]

9 minutes ago, Hyper_V said:

<snippity snappity>

well in short, yes. pricing will be simliar to zen2, there will be options across the entire product line for people with different budgets.

i myself am waiting for new gen ryzen and big navi/ampere to launch so i can FINALLY build my pc that has been in planning for months.

the wait should be worth it, considering the higher amount of cores, ipc boost as well as competitive pricing entering the fray, which will provide a rather 'pleasing' reward to the builder who waits.

who knows, maybe we can get a ryzen 4700x or a 4800 with more cores for the same price as a 3700x or 3800 (heck id go out on a limb and say 3600).

 

p.s. i dont do upgrades. buy a system, milk the shit out of its hardware and build an entirely new one after 6-9(nice) years. yes the 6-9 was on purpose.

 

[boggy77]

i would go for the 3600 for your use case, but on a good b550 board. in 2-3 years, you might find the best upgrade is a 8 core from the 4000 series, that will run well on the b550 board and will carry you forward for another 2-3 years. this way, you'll get 2 cpus on the same motherboard, so you maximise performance and minimise costs.

[Sauron]

Waiting is never a bad option.

 

As for whether Zen 3 will be drastically better than Zen 2... we just don't know yet. I think it's unlikely to be more of a boost than we got from Zen+ to Zen 2 but that's just speculation on my part. If you're buying right now I think it's probably a good idea to at least give yourself the option to upgrade later by buying a motherboard with guaranteed Zen 3 support; if they're too expensive in your area then I would advise waiting.

8 minutes ago, Hyper_V said:

Plus the added fact of (iirc, but please correct me if i'm wrong) the impending EOL of the am4 socket

I would argue the current ryzen 3k lineup plus whatever the 4k series will offer are already a pretty stellar upgrade path if you start from anything but the highest end chips. There's also the option of buying a (still perfectly competent) Ryzen 2k chip if the prices are compelling in your area and replacing it with a high end ryzen 4k chip a few years from now.

[Hyper_V]

I'd like to go for my build about right now, since uni and other stuff will drown me out later in autumn. That's mostly why I'm not too keen on waiting - and as with the 4770, I really wouldn't be upgrading my cpu and would keep it as is for a long while, so the next time I'd really need an upgrade I'd be migrating to the new socket anyway.

 

6/12 still seems enough for me and jumping to a higher end 8/16 cpu would probably be a bit of overkill, even if zen 3 cpus end up being cheaper for the same core counts. Most people seem alright with using the 3600 for the next couple of years so I'd think it would be a similar story for me.

 

As for single thread performance, particularly gaming, I still doubt zen3 would be that much of an improvement, especially considering the 3600 is already a good overall cpu for gaming as is. And well.. I've had people jokingly say this but I've found it to be quite true: "It's never a good time to upgrade since new stuff keeps coming out all the time".

 

I'm fine with not being able to upgrade at a whim  if I just get something that's already good enough as is. (I mean, I have been stuck on the 4770 inside a crappy alienware box for what, 6 years now?)

As for getting a zen+ cpu and swapping it for a zen3 later, I like the idea but if I recall that's only possible on x570 boards natively and on some very specific b550 boards. 
I'm still considering picking up a b550, don't get me wrong (As I'm figuring that the tradeoffs compared to x570 won't hit me nearly as hard, as, again - not planning on getting a pcie gen4 ssd any time soon).
X570 though, is way out of my budget just in general, and frankly, not at all necessary. The prices for b550 are still a bit up in the high though... 

*Edit: changed some info slightly to better reflect what I mean

[boggy77]

7 minutes ago, Hyper_V said:

As for getting a zen+ cpu and swapping it for a zen3 later, I like the idea but if I recall that's only possible on x570 boards natively and on some very specific b550 boards, which are both way out of my budget. 

you can do that on a good b450 board like the msi mortar max

[Hyper_V]

2 minutes ago, boggy77 said:

you can do that on a good b450 board like the msi mortar max

I honestly don't feel too comfortable going for a b450 beta bios flash down the line, though I guess I'd have to see how that pans out for people. 

[boggy77]

10 minutes ago, Hyper_V said:

I honestly don't feel too comfortable going for a b450 beta bios flash down the line, though I guess I'd have to see how that pans out for people. 

then go for the 3600. just bear in mind that until you replace the gpu as well, you won't see a big improvement in fps from cpu alone, as you're not currently cpu bottlenecked.

[Hyper_V]

Just now, boggy77 said:

then go for the 3600. just bear in mind that until you replace the gpu as well, you won't see a big improvement in fps from cpu alone, as you're not currently cpu bottlenecked.

I'm very aware of that. I'd just like to mess with my pc and get some upgrades done to freshen it up for the next couple of years and get it ready for gpu upgrades. As said, I'm going to wait for newer gpus anyway, particularly big navi, as I hope it'll offer good performance at a way better price than novideo - as said before, something akin to a 2070(S) would be more than enough for me, at least for a while.

[SPCFHT]

The VRM on B550 boards improved a lot and it could be another option for your upgrade

[Hyper_V]

11 minutes ago, SPCFHT said:

The VRM on B550 boards improved a lot and it could be another option for your upgrade

Yeah, that's kinda what I'm also looking at now. Considering that I'd get no real long term benefit for going x570, as good as those boards are, and especially considering that from what I've been checking throughout the day the prices really aren't as similar anymore as they used to be when b550 dropped (they're overall more expensive than b450 for ~50€ on average, depending on the mobo of course, while x570 is still way up there). 

Perhaps it would be better for me to cough up a bit more now and just have peace of mind going forward, and (a tiny bit) less buyer's remorse.

If I were to go for one, I've tracked down a B550 Tomahawk for 175€. A decent deal? Also, is the board itself good in general?

[ColdPressCoconutOil]

1 hour ago, Hyper_V said:

If I were to go for one, I've tracked down a B550 Tomahawk for 175€. A decent deal? Also, is the board itself good in general?

yes, the b550 tomahawk is an excellent board with adequate features, quality VRMs and good thermals.

[SPCFHT]

3 hours ago, Hyper_V said:

Yeah, that's kinda what I'm also looking at now. Considering that I'd get no real long term benefit for going x570, as good as those boards are, and especially considering that from what I've been checking throughout the day the prices really aren't as similar anymore as they used to be when b550 dropped (they're overall more expensive than b450 for ~50€ on average, depending on the mobo of course, while x570 is still way up there). 

Perhaps it would be better for me to cough up a bit more now and just have peace of mind going forward, and (a tiny bit) less buyer's remorse.

If I were to go for one, I've tracked down a B550 Tomahawk for 175€. A decent deal? Also, is the board itself good in general?

The B550 Tomahawk is good with decent VRM. Just go for it if you need it now, or maybe you can wait for the post-covid price.

[Hyper_V]

7 minutes ago, SPCFHT said:

The B550 Tomahawk is good with decent VRM. Just go for it if you need it now, or maybe you can wait for the post-covid price.

Considering it's gonna probably take at least half a year for everything to really calm down (I hope it doesn't take longer at least, but I doubt it'll be over sooner than that too), I guess I might go with it. Checking some amazon price history sites for reference though, it doesn't look like I'd be getting that awful of a deal (At least for the proc), and comparing some other older motherboards and their price trends, I might be losing out on a bit of a price drop, but fingers crossed that it's not too much - especially considering b550 is still relatively new and would have higher prices regardless of the current situation.