Ethernet help

[Callum Duncan]

So, im not the best at networking, in fact the most troubleshooting i can do is turning my router off and on again. So, i have a few questions, my internet provider sent us 2 things when we first started with them, a main hub/router, and an extender, the main hub is in my living room where the tv the xbox and everything like that is, then the extender is in my room, on my desk specifically, im not really gonna get in to, too much detail about how confusing i find the terminology here but dont worry about trying to explain it too much. This bit is important, my hub connects to the extender, using wifi, not ethernet, so whenever i use ethernet from the extender, im essentially using wifi, i think anyway, and i want to improve my internet speed. People have said put gigabit ethernet into my pc but as my ethernet is technically connected to WiFi i dont know if that would completely defeat the point of it or not. Also how do people just buy new routers, im not sure how they work, but how does it go from the people i pay, into the router, and how could i use a new router, i always thought my internet was specific to that router alone, how do I switch it. 

[Lurick]

Some providers give you the option to bring your own modem and router, others will give you a specific device you have to use but you can bypass it in some manner to use your own router, and sometimes you can just use an ISP modem and then use your own router behind it. So depending on the ISP and service provided you might not be able to completely replace your main device. If you're not able to run a cable then there isn't any better way than using an extender like you have although if you're looking to upgrade and are able to replace the ISP provided gear with your own then something like a mesh system with a dedicated wireless channel for transferring data between nodes would likely net you some performance improvement over what you have now.

[Callum Duncan]

14 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Some providers give you the option to bring your own modem and router, others will give you a specific device you have to use but you can bypass it in some manner to use your own router, and sometimes you can just use an ISP modem and then use your own router behind it. So depending on the ISP and service provided you might not be able to completely replace your main device. If you're not able to run a cable then there isn't any better way than using an extender like you have although if you're looking to upgrade and are able to replace the ISP provided gear with your own then something like a mesh system with a dedicated wireless channel for transferring data between nodes would likely net you some performance improvement over what you have now.

So shoving a gigabit card into my pc when im using ethernet from the extender which is using wifi, wouldnt do anything? And what's a modem, im good with pc's not wifi. 

[Lurick]

1 minute ago, Callum Duncan said:

So shoving a gigabit card into my pc when im using ethernet from the extender which is using wifi, wouldnt do anything? And what's a modem, im good with pc's not wifi. 

Correct, your PC, if it's made in the last 10 years, has gigabit ethernet on the motherboard already.

The modem is used to convert (in most cases) coax or phone line to ethernet, just to keep it simple without going too deep. If you get cable internet you have a modem.

[Callum Duncan]

31 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Correct, your PC, if it's made in the last 10 years, has gigabit ethernet on the motherboard already.

The modem is used to convert (in most cases) coax or phone line to ethernet, just to keep it simple without going too deep. If you get cable internet you have a modem.

Ok cool thanks

[ShearMe]

Think of it like a water pipe, and WiFi is a narrow tube in between two bigger tubes. Doesn't matter what you do on either end of the pipe, the small tube in the middle will always restrict the water flow.

 

Do you have a cable jack in your PC room? If you take the "main" box and hook it up to another cable jack in the house, there's a good chance it'll work. You could then swap the locations of the two boxes to give your PC gigabit.

[Jinu]

First lets quantify the problem. So
1. What is the speed your Internet Service Provider (ISP) giving you? 
2. What speed are you currently getting on your PC. Run a speed test to get the figure (https://www.speedtest.net/).
3. To be sure we need to verity the answer in point 1. For this if you can
    - Run a long Ethernet cable from the ISP provided router to your PC OR
    - Move your PC/Laptop temporarily to be within reach of the ISP provided router.
    - Now run speed test again.
4. If you cant do point 3 then we will have to take what the ISP says as face value

Now how much drop of bandwidth are you seeing (difference between measure value in point 2 and 3 above)

One more thing. IS you ISP service based on Cable Modem (coaxial cable), fiber optic or plain copper (telephone line). If it is Cable Modem then do keep in mind that the bandwidth promised by the ISP is not assured as cable modem has shared bandwidth with other users in the area. So the bandwidth available to you will keep varying with time depending on how many other people in the area are using the internet. This problem is generally not there with DSL (Telephone wire) or Fiber.

Now to tackle the problem
1. The best solution is to lay a cable from the ISP router to your PC.
2. Assuming that you cannot lay a network cable from ISP router to your PC, the only option is to optimize the position of the extender to get max bandwidth.
For this you need to keep the extender as close to the main router as you possibly can. Basically it should be kept in an area where the WiFi signal is the strongest. You can use your mobile phone to help you find the strongest WiFi signal. Its a compromise, the closer it is to the main router the stronger the signal and hence better bandwidth, but that much longer and complicated cabling from extender to your PC. 
3. Another option you could try is to use a WiFi adapter on your PC. This will allow you to move the Extender to a position in between the ISP router and PC and still get higher bandwidth without the messy cabling. 

[Callum Duncan]

3 hours ago, Jinu said:

First lets quantify the problem. So
1. What is the speed your Internet Service Provider (ISP) giving you? 
2. What speed are you currently getting on your PC. Run a speed test to get the figure (https://www.speedtest.net/).
3. To be sure we need to verity the answer in point 1. For this if you can
    - Run a long Ethernet cable from the ISP provided router to your PC OR
    - Move your PC/Laptop temporarily to be within reach of the ISP provided router.
    - Now run speed test again.
4. If you cant do point 3 then we will have to take what the ISP says as face value

Now how much drop of bandwidth are you seeing (difference between measure value in point 2 and 3 above)

One more thing. IS you ISP service based on Cable Modem (coaxial cable), fiber optic or plain copper (telephone line). If it is Cable Modem then do keep in mind that the bandwidth promised by the ISP is not assured as cable modem has shared bandwidth with other users in the area. So the bandwidth available to you will keep varying with time depending on how many other people in the area are using the internet. This problem is generally not there with DSL (Telephone wire) or Fiber.

Now to tackle the problem
1. The best solution is to lay a cable from the ISP router to your PC.
2. Assuming that you cannot lay a network cable from ISP router to your PC, the only option is to optimize the position of the extender to get max bandwidth.
For this you need to keep the extender as close to the main router as you possibly can. Basically it should be kept in an area where the WiFi signal is the strongest. You can use your mobile phone to help you find the strongest WiFi signal. Its a compromise, the closer it is to the main router the stronger the signal and hence better bandwidth, but that much longer and complicated cabling from extender to your PC. 
3. Another option you could try is to use a WiFi adapter on your PC. This will allow you to move the Extender to a position in between the ISP router and PC and still get higher bandwidth without the messy cabling. 

Hey so i find this stuff quite difficult, i believe its fibre but im not entirely sure, by the way i live in the uk, thought you should know in case that affects anything. I attached a link below to my router in case that helps. I get 92 download 22 upload 1 ping on the speed tests, however when im actually downloading lets say a game from steam, it peaks at 8 or 9. I could easily get a long ethernet cable and run it all the way upstairs into my room it's just a bit inconvenient, i could move the router up to my room but i would have to check how many ethernet ports are being used and how many are on the extender. If i can run a cable from my router, to my pc, gigabit should be possible then? And if i were to buy a new router how would i switch it so the internet comes from the router i bought not the ISP? 

 

Update: Plugged my laptop into the isp router and got these results

Router to extender via Wi-Fi to ethernet to laptop - 92 Download 22 Upload 1 Ping

Router to Laptop via ethernet - 147 Download 26 Upload 1 Ping

This test was done with 3 other people in the house, 2 streaming video, and 1 on a video call. This was done multiple times and is the best score, the average is 136 Download 24 Upload 1 Ping

 

 

 

https://shop.bt.com/products/bt-smart-hub-2-097683-DYNK.html

[Jinu]

2 hours ago, Callum Duncan said:

Hey so i find this stuff quite difficult

Thats ok.. we all have our areas of expertise and areas of not so much expertise.. and its in forums like these where we help each other out.

 

2 hours ago, Callum Duncan said:

I get 92 download 22 upload 1 ping on the speed tests, however when im actually downloading lets say a game from steam, it peaks at 8 or 9.

This is primarily because of the way in which things are displayed and said. So firstly when and ISP or speed test tells you your bandwidth they express it in terms of "Mbps". But when you are downloading stuff the application display the speed in "MBps".. Notice the the small "b" in the first instance versus the big "B" in the second instance. Mbps is Mega Bits per second.. MBps is Mega Bytes per second. Now 1 Byte = 8 Bits so when you see a download speed of 9 MBps it is actually 9 * 8 = 72Mbps which is almost in line with what you seeing on your speed test,

 

2 hours ago, Callum Duncan said:

I could easily get a long ethernet cable and run it all the way upstairs into my room it's just a bit inconvenient, i could move the router up to my room but i would have to check how many ethernet ports are being used and how many are on the extender. If i can run a cable from my router, to my pc, gigabit should be possible then?

This depends on 

- What plan have you taken from the ISP? You would have taken some sort of plan from BT which will limit the max bandwidth you will get. Further some ISP also have something called Fair Usage Policy (FUP) which simply restricts the amount of data you can download in a month. For eg: I coud have a broadband plan that gives me top bandwidth of 500Mbs and FUP of 600GB. This means that for the one month of service I willl get internet speed of 500Mbps. But the minute i finish using 600GB in a month the speed i get will drop down to 10Mbps (or some ridiculously low value like that). So back to first question what plan do you have from ISP?

- Your top speed is limited by the weakest network component in your chain. The model number mentione. But given that you can see download of 147 on your laptop when directly connected to the ISP router, i have to assume that they are all Gigabit ready  

 

 

2 hours ago, Callum Duncan said:

Update: Plugged my laptop into the isp router and got these results

Router to extender via Wi-Fi to ethernet to laptop - 92 Download 22 Upload 1 Ping

Router to Laptop via ethernet - 147 Download 26 Upload 1 Ping

This test was done with 3 other people in the house, 2 streaming video, and 1 on a video call. This was done multiple times and is the best score, the average is 136 Download 24 Upload 1 Ping

 

Now this is the crux of your problem. From the above experiment you can conclude that the WIFI is becoming a bottle neck. To check if it is a signal/distance issue, you can do one more experiment. Take your extender and keep it right next to your main ISP router. This will ensure that the extenders is getting the max signal from the ISP router, now connect the laptop to the extender (via ethernet) cable and see what speed your are getting on speed test. This test should tell you wifi reception of the extender is causing the drop in speed. Also speed test should be done only when there is nobody else in the house using the internet, only then can you get good to use values.

[Callum Duncan]

41 minutes ago, Jinu said:

This depends on 

- What plan have you taken from the ISP? You would have taken some sort of plan from BT which will limit the max bandwidth you will get. Further some ISP also have something called Fair Usage Policy (FUP) which simply restricts the amount of data you can download in a month. For eg: I coud have a broadband plan that gives me top bandwidth of 500Mbs and FUP of 600GB. This means that for the one month of service I willl get internet speed of 500Mbps. But the minute i finish using 600GB in a month the speed i get will drop down to 10Mbps (or some ridiculously low value like that). So back to first question what plan do you have from ISP?

I Believe I have unlimited access, so I don't have to worry about using too much data. I bought the extender next to the router, and it was roughly the same as it was before, slightly higher but only by a few mb. I think the bottleneck here is the wifi transition between the router and the extender, if I was using wifi and not ethernet I don't think it would be a problem. I am going to try and get a very long ethernet cable, and route it to my pc, based on the first experiment, that should help.

[Falcon1986]

8 hours ago, Callum Duncan said:

I Believe I have unlimited access, so I don't have to worry about using too much data. I bought the extender next to the router, and it was roughly the same as it was before, slightly higher but only by a few mb. I think the bottleneck here is the wifi transition between the router and the extender, if I was using wifi and not ethernet I don't think it would be a problem. I am going to try and get a very long ethernet cable, and route it to my pc, based on the first experiment, that should help.

Excellent!

 

Your connection should now be more reliable and faster.