Unusual Setup

[SanctiMortem]

Hi all, 

 

not sure if this is the right place to write this down, but I couldn’t find a specific one.

 

I’m looking to build my home office rig computer for AR, VR, real time App development and such. Mostly for Substance, Unreal Engine, After Effects, and others like photoshop and the like. I don’t have a specific budget, but what I’m thinking of doing it’s a bit unusual and I have some questions about the performance.

 

so this is my idea:

My site is about 8 mts away from my desk, and I don’t want a pc case standing by my desk for several reasons (my desk is not against the wall, I have 2 dogs, space is somewhat limited on the desk area) So I was thinking of building a rig for rack and using the UTP cable under the floor to send the HDMI from my site to the Desk and just connect the Monitors at the desk. Mouse and keyboard to the monitors and leaving the pc at the site area on a rack. 
Would this be viable? Would this give me insane input lag? Slow graphics? From my understanding there shouldn’t be any problem (on paper at least) but before buying the whole thing I just want to make sure there won’t be any problems.

 

a bit more detail:

I have my USP plugged to the wall where I have all my other connections (from tv, home theater, ps4, switch, nvr, controller, usg, ap, and also both electric outlets at the desk). At my desk I have 2 electric outlets, one RJ45 jack straight from the switch and one for IP line (phone, not sure how it called in English). So having the rig at the site would be connected to the USP, but the monitors would also be connected too. I still have space in the PVC to send more UTP Cat6A in case it’s needed.

 

Am I missing something? Is it even possible to do something like this? Or am I completely nuts and this project is not possible?

 

Please Help!

 

Thank you for all your help in advance, envy comment, critique or suggestions are more than welcome!!

 

Best Regards!!

[myselfolli]

Linus had/has a similar setup, where his PC is in his server room at home, and his setup is a bit further away. I think he used a thunderbolt connection for everything...

 

I'' try to find the video

[Bombastinator]

The issue seems to be not how long the run is, but how very short it is.

 

To my understanding it’s quite doable as long as the UTP isn’t used.  Input lag would be minimal.  It would make use of DisplayPort difficult, but not HDMI.  It might cost some extra money though.

 

The key issue is how long the cables need to be.  Assuming 8mts means 8m Its over standard maximum length for some cables but not others.  The biggest problem is this UTP.  

MUST UTP (unshielded twisted pair ethernet) be used or can you run actual cables?  Forcing everything into ethernet dramatically raises cost and lowers quality.  Actual regular old cabling would work much much better, and the length is short enough.  It might still be done if you insist on using the ethernet, but everything needs conversion then, and it gets expensive and annoying fast.  Ethernet systems like you describe are meant for traversing distances 10 times longer than what you have.  If you could deal with running a cord protector across the floor it would save a bunch of headache.

the signal from some things like USB would need to be converted to optical or something and back again which introduces a fairly large but somewhat variable additional cost.  Different cable systems and conversion systems have their own maximum lengths.  DisplayPort is 15 feet iirc. My memory is HDMI is something like 25 feet which would be just inside your limit.  You might need some sort of conversion system for USB though.  There are USB 3.2 cables that do all their conversion internally and look like regular, unusually long USB cables.  They can be expensive, but not game breakingly so.  You’d only need one for keyboard/mouse anyway.  You could put everything in a single cable protector running across the floor, or, if your PVC pipe is big enough to pass the end of an hdmi cable, just fish it through that and avoid the cable protector floor strip entirely.  My memory is something like 1 1/4” is preferred for fishing HDMI.

 

The cost of the converter boxes is high enough it might actually be cheaper, depending on how the building is laid out, to hire an electrician to come in and replace that PVC nm low voltage conduit with some 1 1/2” smurf tube (flexible conduit.  It’s blue) or something.

[SanctiMortem]

Hi!

 

I would love to see the video myselfolli!

 

 

Thank you Bombastinator for the answer, I am currently talking with the electrician that worked on my home to get all the details. I wasn't considering HDMI (besides the fact of not being sure about ir fitting through the PVC) because I thought there wasn't any quality and/or performance loss. 

The same thing about the USBs has beed bothering me too, not sure how I would manage to accomplish that, although I'm seeing a guy later today that might help with that, I'll post here if he has a neat solution.

 

The cables through a cables protector through the floor is not possible since it would be crossing the whole living room through the middle. something that the PVC does, but underneath the floor. 

One other option that might be more invasive (But if the project is worth it, so no loss of quality, and no loss of performance) would be to pass a new PVC through the roof, my roof is the slab directly, so adding a new one wouldn't be a problem, except when I need to break the wall and jus a bit of ceiling to bring it down and then repaint the roof, which has to be done with spray paint, so I would have to cover everything for a time to avoid getting paint on all the furniture and devices. But again, since my desk is not against the wall, that option would leave the cable in my back. 
I'll look into the option to break the floor again (since its the cheapest area of the how to break, and does not need to be repainted after) if its needed. 

 

Thank you very much!!

Best Regards!

 

 

[Bombastinator]

39 minutes ago, SanctiMortem said:

Hi!

 

I would love to see the video myselfolli!

 

 

Thank you Bombastinator for the answer, I am currently talking with the electrician that worked on my home to get all the details. I wasn't considering HDMI (besides the fact of not being sure about ir fitting through the PVC) because I thought there wasn't any quality and/or performance loss. 

The same thing about the USBs has beed bothering me too, not sure how I would manage to accomplish that, although I'm seeing a guy later today that might help with that, I'll post here if he has a neat solution.

 

The cables through a cables protector through the floor is not possible since it would be crossing the whole living room through the middle. something that the PVC does, but underneath the floor. 

One other option that might be more invasive (But if the project is worth it, so no loss of quality, and no loss of performance) would be to pass a new PVC through the roof, my roof is the slab directly, so adding a new one wouldn't be a problem, except when I need to break the wall and jus a bit of ceiling to bring it down and then repaint the roof, which has to be done with spray paint, so I would have to cover everything for a time to avoid getting paint on all the furniture and devices. But again, since my desk is not against the wall, that option would leave the cable in my back. 
I'll look into the option to break the floor again (since its the cheapest area of the how to break, and does not need to be repainted after) if its needed. 

 

Thank you very much!!

Best Regards!

 

 

The thing with standard cables is you don’t need to fish just the wire but the cable connector as well.  This means the pipe has to be MUCH larger than normal.  I have an electrician friend that fan a whole bunch of smurf tube in his house for just this purpose and he chose inch and a quarter.  The bright side of big pipes though is they cost about the same to install as small ones and since the cable connectors won’t be IN the tube except when it is being fished there is lots and lots of room.  Much more than is mathematically required.  The electrician may want to put in smaller diameter pipe.  Resist.  
 

 You’ll want to also make sure the cables in question can actually handle the video.  HDMI doesn’t have actual ratings.  HDMI technically is HDMI.  In practice though not all cables are created equal.  You’ll need to test the cables to make sure they can actually drive the distance you need before you fish them.  
 

Roof work gets expensive fast because there is water sealing involved.  Ceilings aren’t roofs though.  If you’ve got a drop ceiling there’s all kinds of space in there. 

[SanctiMortem]

44 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Roof work gets expensive fast because there is water sealing involved.  Ceilings aren’t roofs though.  If you’ve got a drop ceiling there’s all kinds of space in there. 

Hi again, what I meant was that I don't have a drop ceiling except in a small area, the rest of the ceiling goes straight to the slab, just painted over and thats it. I'll try to add a picture!!

 

The picture is, of course from right before moving in, but its easy to get an idea

 

 

Thank you, 

Best Regards.

[SanctiMortem]

Hi all, 

 

So I talked to the electrician and the architect to make sure what is under the floor. Apparently there is only a 3/4 pvc. So I’m waiting for a couple of quotations for the job, I’m thinking of breaking the floor and adding a new 1 1/2 pvc, and even another one just in case I need to pass something more (after all if I’m doing all that work, adding one under the floor won’t bother me). 
‘I also talked with a couple experts and we found a possible option for the usb, and I actually found a Linus video about that cable, might not be the exact one since he talks about self powered devices, so I need to figure out if there is a device I can use that selfs powers a usb extension or something of the like. 
‘I also measured the distance more precisely, although breaking ground will allow me to reallocate the outlets in a better spot. 
distance in ground is 7.3 mts, plus the height of the rack, and of the desk, so a 10 mts cable I believe is more than enough.

 

 

I’ll keep you guys posted for any updates!

 

Best Regards!

[Bombastinator]

I take it there is no basement?  Is there a crawl space?  This “breaking the floor” confuses me.

[Bombastinator]

10 hours ago, SanctiMortem said:

Hi again, what I meant was that I don't have a drop ceiling except in a small area, the rest of the ceiling goes straight to the slab, just painted over and thats it. I'll try to add a picture!!

 

The picture is, of course from right before moving in, but its easy to get an idea

 

 

Thank you, 

Best Regards.

My temptation in this situation would to do cable raceway bolted to the ceiling.  It easy and cheap.  Not as pretty as hiding it under the floor but it’s not a super beautiful ceiling to start with.

[SanctiMortem]

40 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

My temptation in this situation would to do cable raceway bolted to the ceiling.  It easy and cheap.  Not as pretty as hiding it under the floor but it’s not a super beautiful ceiling to start with.

*Not sure if I’m writing the explanation as I’m supposed to in english, but..

 

So this is an apartment building, each floor has a slob between the apartments. To place it under the floor, I need to take out the ceramic floor, and break part of the cementation added on top of the slob and underneath the ceramic planks to make way for the PVC, then fill it again and put the planks back in. The PVC basically stays under the cement. 
 

Placing it as you say on the ceiling its easier in a way, but without taking on account the repainting aspect, which needs to be done with spray painting. i would still need to bring it down through the wall (the block wall, the other one is a load bearing wall, so that a definite NO in messing with it) which means I need to take out the blocks that are almost impossible to take out without breaking; and then through the floor also. Not only that takes more people to do, but also I end up breaking the floor again. Taking it through the floor shouldn’t be more than 400 usd plus the cost of the new planks; and two days of work. Which is something I’m willing to pay as long as it hides everything and also is a shorter distance than going through the ceiling. 
 

after talking with the electrician, and a couple of architects I asked their opinion on, the floor is still the best option in time, cost and aesthetics.

 

 

my only concern now is, the cable Linus talks about in the video, apparently has really poor reviews in Amazon. Most of them about stop working around a year of use. And I haven’t been able to find another one like it. Already found the hub for the USBs though.

 

[Bombastinator]

I did not understand it was an apartment building.  That changes things massively.  Concrete and rental is not wood and ownership

[SanctiMortem]

On 2/22/2020 at 5:13 AM, Bombastinator said:

Concrete and rental is not wood and ownership

I’m sorry, I don’t know what this means. 
 

Best Regards!

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, SanctiMortem said:

I’m sorry, I don’t know what this means. 
 

Best Regards!

I for whatever reason assumed this was a wood building you owned, not a concrete building you didn’t.

[IcarusLSC]

The plugs in the floor are run through conduit, see if there is room in them for the cords you need to fish through?

 

[SanctiMortem]

4 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

I for whatever reason assumed this was a wood building you owned, not a concrete building you didn’t.

Ok, I do own the apartment though, so I don’t have any problems doing anything to it.

[Bombastinator]

Just now, SanctiMortem said:

Ok, I do own the apartment though, so I don’t have any problems doing anything to it.

So A condo. Or flat, or townhome or whatever it is called in a given situation.  Concrete is very hard to work with, and it gets worse when there’s no access below it.  I don’t know if there is such a thing as a removable connector for HDMI or not.  I’ve never seen one.  If there is it might be possible to run just the cable in the 3/4 pipe and attach a connector later.  I don’t even know if such a thing exists though.

 

The problem seems to be having a computer case next to the desk.  What if the computer case WAS the desk?  That is done sometimes.  

[SanctiMortem]

1 hour ago, IcarusLSC said:

The plugs in the floor are run through conduit, see if there is room in them for the cords you need to fish through?

 

Hi Icarus! 
 

Yes, the conduit pvc on the floor has some space, but only for maybe 1 more Cat6A cable, so for me to send the HDMI I would have to add another pvc, larger and send the HDMI, I also found this video where they are using the optic cable for mouse and keyboard control, although their extended was insanely expensive, I think I found a good option with a nice slim look and all https://hengedocks.com/products/stone-pro

 

also with the docking station for my current lap would be a nice addition.

 

I’m just looking for a really good quality cable that I can be sure it won’t break after a year of use

 

Best Regards!

[SanctiMortem]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

So A condo. Or flat, or townhome or whatever it is called in a given situation.  Concrete is very hard to work with, and it gets worse when there’s no access below it.  I don’t know if there is such a thing as a removable connector for HDMI or not.  I’ve never seen one.  If there is it might be possible to run just the cable in the 3/4 pipe and attach a connector later.  I don’t even know if such a thing exists though.

 

The problem seems to be having a computer case next to the desk.  What if the computer case WAS the desk?  That is done sometimes.  

Yes! I did consider that too at one point, but it was incredibly more expensive that doing all the pvc work. I’ not really worried about the concrete work, after all it’s not much that we have to mess with. And we basically already did, I just didn’t consider the fact that I was about to buy a new computer, I would’ve added more pvc before adding the floor (ceramic planks)

 

I also haven’t seen HDMI cables with a removable connector, but HDMI are one type of cable I wouldn’t mess with Hahaha

[SanctiMortem]

Hi all, 

 

New update, so I'm hoping someone can tell me if this logic is correct, and this is a solution.

 

Icron USB 3-2-1 Raven 3124 (USB 3.1 extender) connected to the PC, a 15 mts Multimode Duplex Fiber Optic Cable  connecting the extenders together. Then the Tethering Docking Station for USB C with the docking station for my current lap. That would supposedly allow me to connect my Mouse and Keyboard, USBs, External HDDs, etc. Plus the Hub has SD Card for the photography and all. 

 

Is this correct? am I missing something, after looking at the price of the Icron USB Extender... I Need to be sure.

 

If all that is correct, doing that, and passing through the HDMIs for the monitors, would basically be everything I need to do right?

 

 

Thank you in advance, 

Best Regards!