fx-8350 [FX-8350] Overclocking an EOL CPU

[Doomkaliber]

Greetings, Forum!
I'll try to keep it sweet and simple, but give out all relevant information.

 

1. Context:
My first ever build, back in early 2014, was a FX series gaming machine on a tight budget. Over the years it's had it's share of upgrades as I've grown quite attached to it. I honestly consider it a "monument" to my abilities and interest in hardware and my improvement over the years. That being said, it's time to think overclocking for the sheer fun of it. Maybe? I'm not sure how to approach the issue and this is why this forum topic exists. By the time I started having "overclocking" in my dictionary, Ryzens and Ryzen Master had been out, brutally simplifying that word's meaning for newcomers like myself.

How did it come to me wanting to clock an EOL CPU in 2020 then? Simple - I was messing about and notices that the 125W rated Processor was drawing no more than 50W, running at < 50°C under load. What will I gain? Experience, I guess. I'm just reluctant and want to do my research before blowing out a motherboard that is near-impossible to replace due to the fact that they're EOL. Oh, and I need to buy a PSU for a family build, so I can get Plus Gold and leave the current one to them. (They're fine with it and I'm the one paying anyway.)

 

2. System Specifications:
Now here's the kicker. The motherboard I'm currently on is well discussed on forums and articles about having terrible VRMs for clocking. Yes, ladies and gents, I'm running an ASRock Extreme 3. Here's the list of Relevant Components:

• CPU - FX-8350 /Piledriver/
• MoBo - ASRock 990FX Extreme 3
• PSU - beQuiet! System Power 8 600W (if proceeding with clocking, Pure Power 11 600W)

Cooling Solution:

• Case - DeepCool Tessaract BF (Neutral Pressure)
• CPU - beQuiet! Pure Rock (exhaling upwards from below the radiator)
• Fans - 4x beQuiet! Pure Wings 120mm, 1500RPM
  •     Intake Fans: Front & Side
  •     Outtake Fans: Back & Top

3. Expectations & Questions:
I know I'm not going to get incredible and/or record-breaking clocks if I go through with this. It's far form the point, actually. I know the cooling solution is mediocre, at best, but I don't feel it adequate spending for an AIO Liquid Cooler on a machine like this one. I just want to do something I haven't done before without incurring unnecessary costs, maybe even get an extra bang for my buck.
And yes, I have indeed watched Jay's guide, I do in fact have an idea as to how to do it, the question is whether I should.

Specific Questions:
1) Can I cause permanent damage to any of the components if I'm cautious and take my time with small increments and adequate tests.

2) How do the VRMs actually play their part in clocking, since that's the main argument that comes up when researching about the board. Helpful coverage and links on the topic highly appreciated!

3) How dependent am I on the "silicon lottery" in my case?

4) Based on your experience on the issue, how much could I possibly gain and is it even worth it?

5) If I go through with clocking, would you like to be tagged on and updated about any further developments?

 

4. Conclusion

"Sweat and simple"... ha,ha... Anyway, I hope that I was able to explain my idea in an understandable and digestible manner.

I'll be rather slow on replies, because you know... work, life and those kinds of annoying things. Regardless, I'll do my best in terms of replies and answers in case I've missed out on any information.
Thank you very much for your time and replies! I really appreciate it! Cheers!

-"Doomkaliber"

 

[Jurrunio]

55 minutes ago, Doomkaliber said:

Processor was drawing no more than 50W

Is it even running all 4 modules, 8 cores?

 

55 minutes ago, Doomkaliber said:

articles about having terrible VRMs for clocking

indeed.... There's a reason why they make the Extreme9 for the FX 9 series, that has 3 times the VRM of your Extreme3

 

57 minutes ago, Doomkaliber said:

I know the cooling solution is mediocre

Good, so you dont blow the board up before the CPU overheats

 

58 minutes ago, Doomkaliber said:

1) Can I cause permanent damage to any of the components if I'm cautious and take my time with small increments and adequate tests.

and data monitoring, yes. Use HWinfo64.

 

58 minutes ago, Doomkaliber said:

2) How do the VRMs actually play their part in clocking, since that's the main argument that comes up when researching about the board. Helpful coverage and links on the topic highly appreciated!

It's what powers the CPU by stepping down 12V received from the PSU to just above the core voltage. It's not looking good here, better add a dedicated fan for it.

 

59 minutes ago, Doomkaliber said:

3) How dependent am I on the "silicon lottery" in my case?

Any overclock is tied to the silicon lottery, it determines how fast it can go for a set power draw.

 

1 hour ago, Doomkaliber said:

4) Based on your experience on the issue, how much could I possibly gain and is it even worth it?

For fun only, and not really comparable with anyone else.

[Beerzerker]

The higher you clock it the higher consumed wattage will be which in turn will place more strain on the VRM's. That board isn't really for OC'ing TBH, good for daily setups and ticking up clocks a little...... But that's it.

 

If wanting to really do some OC'ing you're gonna need a better board, no question about it.

 

For AM3+, Asus had the best lineup for that purpose, namely the Crosshair series and Sabertooth boards. Both are capable of running a 9590 and are one of the few that can without issues.

Here is what I made my 8350 do with a Sabertooth 2.0 board: https://hwbot.org/submission/4225574_bones_cpu_frequency_fx_8350_7616.65_mhz

I also made it do this: https://hwbot.org/submission/4225603_bones_superpi___32m_fx_8350_10min_39sec_984ms

 

So..... I don't know what you are thinking here concerning the board you have but do yourself a favor and don't lean on it hard, that board model just can't take much of it I'm afraid. Treat it right and just enjoy it but if you insist on going for it, just know up front that board won't cut it.
BTW a 600W PSU won't cut it either due to increased wattage draw of the chip once OC'ed, more like a good 850W for most OC'ed uses is the thing and that's what I'd call minimum for such.

[Jurrunio]

30 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

BTW a 600W PSU won't cut it either due to increased wattage draw of the chip once OC'ed, more like a good 850W for most OC'ed uses is the thing and that's what I'd call minimum for such.

nah that's not needed, he will override the CPU cooler before power draw gets high

[Beerzerker]

You're probrably right about that with the setup "As Is".....

If they decide to really do it 600W just won't get it done, that much I do know.

[Doomkaliber]

5 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

The higher you clock it the higher consumed wattage will be which in turn will place more strain on the VRM's.

First of all, thanks for the in-depth reply! Secondly, out of interest, could you recommend me some adequate materials for me to properly understand VRMs, Power Phases, the effect of quality components and what the hell "8+2 Golden Power Phase Design with Unicorns and stuff" is supposed to mean. If that makes any sense. Out of what I can read up on at 3:30 at night, things aren't too coherent when hopping between sources. Or that might be the fact that I have to get up in about 4 hours? Anyway, I'll keep an eye out on the used market, which is unpleasantly restricted in my country. Thanks for your time (again) and thanks in advance! Cheers!

[Beerzerker]

The VRM setup does make a difference. The better the VRM phase is the more it's capable of handling high stress loads the CPU would demand of it.

That's why boards such as the ones I named are the ones to go for if any, they do have the best VRM phase setup to handle anything you'd want them to under any conditions you can run them under.

Quality speaks for itself - Means it's well constructed from materials that's suitable for such use vs cheaper materials that's not as good. A board is what it's made of, kinda like "You are what you eat" and if the board is made from cheaper components it's just that no matter who makes it or how it's setup.

For an AM3+ the boards I named will get it done - No need to worry further once you get one of those but don't expect them to be cheap - You get what you pay for.

 

However do be picky about price, it's entirely possible to find one for a real deal vs a ripoff price so lurk around and get an idea of how much they tend to go for on average, then look to see if you spot one for a really good deal. Luck will play a part in what you find so don't be in a rush, however when you do see one move on it. Good deals on these never last very long anyway.

I'm also sending you a PM.

[Guest]

Quote

. That being said, it's time to think overclocking for the sheer fun of it. Maybe? I'm not sure how to approach the issue and this is why this forum topic exists. By the time I started having "overclocking" in my dictionary,

Love reading this kind of stuff. Pretty much what happened to me when I got into overclocking for the fun of it. 

So here's what you do. (In my opinion.... For the fun part.)

You find a guide to seal the board from condensation. (yea, we are going there, because you'll hump me through the screen later for it)

THEN, you make a DICE pot. (That's short for Dry Ice) Then you buy the DICE. Get a little Acetone (doesn't freeze, adds surface area) and boil some cool effects on your bench. Believe me, this is worth ALL of the time and very little money to invest into. 

FX processors scale so well with cold, I was doing 7ghz club runs on 4+1 VRMs lol. Granted... only 2 cores, but over 2.0v.... 

Very exhilarating first few times experience. Then you get LN2....... or just go straight for it!! 

 

Nice thing is, Phenom II processors are cheap and scale decently with the cold too. Good thing your motherboard supports em'. Can do all kinds of overclocking fun.

 

[CPUguy101]

I threw up a little its a 4+1 phase board jesus christ please don't OC it. If you MUST put a fan over the VRM i mean directly above it. 

 

You will want to stay at 1.35-1.4V or less you can probably get to 4.4ghz or so at that voltage again put a fan over the board's VRM(next to the CPU socket). 

 

When these boards came out many people where upset since they could barely handle a stock 65 watt FX CPU. These FX CPU's use a TON of watts i remember when i had my 8350 just clicking on chrome made my PC use 220 watts now its at 84 using ryzen. 

[Doomkaliber]

6 hours ago, CPUguy101 said:

When these boards came out many people where upset since they could barely handle a stock 65 watt FX CPU.

It's important to remember that FX processors weren't treated as kindly by the market as the current Ryzens. I remember some tech YouTuber (likely Linus or Jay) explaining in a video how Intel Based systems and motherboards used to get all the bells and whistles and how manufacturers never bothered making reasonably priced high-end AMD tech. Being 19 at the time, when I built my first system with no prior experience it was a train wreck with no survivors. I had picked up the trashiest possible motherboard that I ended up shorting out, because who reads documentation about those pesky pins for LEDs and Button Headers. I'm only started realizing how bad things where a year or so later and have reached the point where I've literally swapped out every component of the system over the years, except the original HDD that is currently as Mass-Storage drive. Anyway, I'll keep an eye out for a Sabretooth.

Meanwhile, I'm bringing up the following question: @ShrimpBrime, @Beerzerker
If I'm not likely to cause physical damage to any of the components by incrementing clocks with 100MHz at a time, with sufficient stability testing, I'm likely to go through with it even if it results in a 0.3GHz boost, it's about the experience after all. How badly can things end if I'm actually cautious when approaching the issue.

 

Even if I don't end up clocking the thing, I've learned a lot from this forum thread, for which I'm sincerely grateful!

Thanks a whole bunch to all contributers!

[Beerzerker]

As long as you pay attention to what's going on and "Listen" to what the system tells you in the way it behaves you'll be fine.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Doomkaliber said:

It's important to remember that FX processors weren't treated as kindly by the market as the current Ryzens. I remember some tech YouTuber (likely Linus or Jay) explaining in a video how Intel Based systems and motherboards used to get all the bells and whistles and how manufacturers never bothered making reasonably priced high-end AMD tech. Being 19 at the time, when I built my first system with no prior experience it was a train wreck with no survivors. I had picked up the trashiest possible motherboard that I ended up shorting out, because who reads documentation about those pesky pins for LEDs and Button Headers. I'm only started realizing how bad things where a year or so later and have reached the point where I've literally swapped out every component of the system over the years, except the original HDD that is currently as Mass-Storage drive. Anyway, I'll keep an eye out for a Sabretooth.

Meanwhile, I'm bringing up the following question: @ShrimpBrime, @Beerzerker
If I'm not likely to cause physical damage to any of the components by incrementing clocks with 100MHz at a time, with sufficient stability testing, I'm likely to go through with it even if it results in a 0.3GHz boost, it's about the experience after all. How badly can things end if I'm actually cautious when approaching the issue.

 

Even if I don't end up clocking the thing, I've learned a lot from this forum thread, for which I'm sincerely grateful!

Thanks a whole bunch to all contributers!

I dont know about that. The crosshair V had every bell and whistle you could ask for.

 

Just gotta keep the cpu and vrms cool. 

 

A lot of FX chips dont fly past 5ghz without 1.50v.

In fact my FX9590 (delidded) was a great processor. Its max pstate voltage was 1.5250v for max turbo. That voltage was accurate for all core 5ghz.

Top frequency I hit on geothermal liquid was 5.7ghz. 

 

A little at a time. Just like you said. Goes true for any oc.

[CPUguy101]

7 hours ago, Doomkaliber said:

It's important to remember that FX processors weren't treated as kindly by the market as the current Ryzens. I remember some tech YouTuber (likely Linus or Jay) explaining in a video how Intel Based systems and motherboards used to get all the bells and whistles and how manufacturers never bothered making reasonably priced high-end AMD tech. Being 19 at the time, when I built my first system with no prior experience it was a train wreck with no survivors. I had picked up the trashiest possible motherboard that I ended up shorting out, because who reads documentation about those pesky pins for LEDs and Button Headers. I'm only started realizing how bad things where a year or so later and have reached the point where I've literally swapped out every component of the system over the years, except the original HDD that is currently as Mass-Storage drive. Anyway, I'll keep an eye out for a Sabretooth.

Meanwhile, I'm bringing up the following question: @ShrimpBrime, @Beerzerker
If I'm not likely to cause physical damage to any of the components by incrementing clocks with 100MHz at a time, with sufficient stability testing, I'm likely to go through with it even if it results in a 0.3GHz boost, it's about the experience after all. How badly can things end if I'm actually cautious when approaching the issue.

 

Even if I don't end up clocking the thing, I've learned a lot from this forum thread, for which I'm sincerely grateful!

Thanks a whole bunch to all contributers!

To be fair even a Intel Haswell I3 was a better pick then the FX the CPU was extremely terrible with IPC below the K10 even the only thing that saved it was the newer instruction sets such as AVX 2 and SSE4.

 

I could go on for pages explaining why as i argued this back when Amd was showing off the design and i debated a person called JF-Amd(Employee from Amd) quite often about how IPC would go down and how applications wouldn't scale to 8 cores for years to come(2011 at the time back when it was a miracle for a game to use 2-3 cores well). 

 

Shared FP unit with latency issues across the board and a dumb L2 shared cache sure in the hell didn't help either. Amd engineers where quoted as saying "Hold the line on IPC" and they wanted to clock the CPU to 5Ghz, but of course Global Foundries couldn't do this. It was often said that they didn't expect Intel to make such massive gains in IPC either past Nehalem.  Plus Bulldozer was originally thought of back in 05 but the engineers where split as many didn't think it was going to be worth it long term. 

 

Back before bulldozer came out engineering samples came out and board manufactures where surprised by how terrible they where so they probably assumed the FX wouldn't be worth it and didn't invest the $$$ into making better boards. 

 

If anyone is interested in a LONG very LONG back story of bulldozer i would be very happy to talk about it but i somewhat want to forget it ever happened i want to remember the FX(FX-60,FX-53) as it should be remembered the beast that made Intel cry in the corner and cheat to stay relevant.