Need help with ram timings- Ryzen 5 3600

[Supadupamayne]

Hello! I am a bit of a noob at Ram timing, and anyone who reads this and helps, I GREATLY appreciate it. I’m mainly looking for some X570 cl14 configurations for 2800-3200mhz on X570 Asrock and MSI motherbords. I built a PC, and will be building another one tonight. The first one that is finished is an Asrock x570 Phantom K4(gaming 4) motherboard, Ryzen 5 3600, DC 2x8gb Geil Evo Potenza 3000 mhz cl16 Micron B-Die and a wraith max (the prism from FX and 1st gen Ryzen). The second is the same but a MSI X570-A pro, and Viper Patriot 3200 cl16. 
 

On the first rig I used Thaiphoon to import my xmp into the Ryzen calc, used the settings and got a black screen. Pulled the cmos, and set the XMP and oc’d it to 3200. Everything is running good, but I would like to tighten the timings, but I am scared to just experiment and go in blindly. And is it possible that raising the frequency without changing the timings would be bad too?  
 

Can I just change the main timings, or do I HAVE to mess with all that other stuff as well? The weirdest and most confusing part of the process was the tRFC to me. The Ryzen calculator only had tRFC and (alt), but my motherboard UEFI had tRFC 1, 2, 3, and 4? Very confusing. 
 

I heard tighter timings is better for Ryzen than faster clock speeds, and would really like a simple guide or copy and paste settings that would work with my Ram, cpu, and motherboard from anyone who has a similar config and cl14 working properly. Looking for 2800-3200 cl14. Thank you! 
 

Also, side question, pbo vs all core oc? (i would also like to add that disabling OC voltage to stable voltage made my system drop 20-30c during idle, and seem to also run much faster and more stable. Right now Im just using 3900 all core clock with 1.325v, PBO disabled, C-state and “core-boost” or whatever it’s called enabled, Ryzen balanced plan. It’s been the fastest and most stable of everything I have tried, as well as the coolest.) 

[Mathieu9836]

First off, Zen 2 seem to be faster with PBO enabled then disabled with a static OC, doesn't seem to be any improvement AFAIK.

 

Micron Rev.B are far from being the best at OC, you might want to stay around 3200mhz, you will able to lower the timings around 15-19-19-13-21 1T tRC 52 tWR 10 tRRD S/L 6/7.

 

tRFC 1, 2, 3, and 4 are subtimings usually really far down the list, some motherboard manufacturers call it different names, you have to find out what it is named.

ALT means alternative i think, usually this value is more loose then the suggested value.

 

If you have no luck or it is barely stable you can try increasing DRAM termination resistance to te next value if command rate is already to 2T, this helped me getting my Micron E stable.

If you are running 1T, you can try 2T it helps a lot but you loose some latency since your CPU send twice the command instead of once.

 

And depending on your chips, you might also need to use something higher then 1.35volts, maybe 1.4 or 1.45, it is still safe even if many people think it's not.

 

VSOC help increasing memory controller stability, you can increase that up to 1.2v on Zen+, not sure if it's the same for Zen 2.

[Supadupamayne]

10 minutes ago, Mathieu9836 said:

First off, Zen 2 seem to be faster with PBO enabled then disabled with a static OC, doesn't seem to be any improvement AFAIK.

 

Micron Rev.B are far from being the best at OC, you might want to stay around 3200mhz, you will able to lower the timings around 15-19-19-13-21 1T tRC 52 tWR 10 tRRD S/L 6/7.

 

tRFC 1, 2, 3, and 4 are subtimings usually really far down the list, some motherboard manufacturers call it different names, you have to find out what it is named.

ALT means alternative i think, usually this value is more loose then the suggested value.

 

If you have no luck or it is barely stable you can try increasing DRAM termination resistance to te next value if command rate is already to 2T, this helped me getting my Micron E stable.

If you are running 1T, you can try 2T it helps a lot but you loose some latency since your CPU send twice the command instead of once.

 

And depending on your chips, you might also need to use something higher then 1.35volts, maybe 1.4 or 1.45, it is still safe even if many people think it's not.

 

VSOC help increasing memory controller stability, you can increase that up to 1.2v on Zen+, not sure if it's the same for Zen 2.

Thank you... so  “15-19-19-13-21 1T tRC 52 tWR 10 tRRD S/L 6/7.“ is all I would really need to change other than maybe some voltage? (I have no prior experience setting RAM timings. This is only my second build ever, and my first one was in 2013 and I sold it after a few months anyway  )My main goal is the lower latency. Im not to worried about going over 3200. I did try 3400 without even changing the timings once. Windows wouldn’t load, but the UEFI would at least. 

[Mathieu9836]

Each memory kits behave differently, your might do better or worst then what i have found on Reddit, you find out sooner or later how it behave. IMO it behave somehow like the Hynix A, there is not much gain to get but it's better then nothing i guess.

I learned how to OC memory by watching Buildzoid videos and trying to go as far as i can, took me about 1 month to OC my first RAM kit, but once you know how you get faster and faster with each kit. Try 3200mhz, try 3000mhz if you can get tighter timings and better latency.

[Supadupamayne]

So basically I figured out the issue was that the trfc, and trfc alt are just two values for base trfc (I used tRFC alt value) and that whatever is not in the calculator you can just leave to auto, put in the settings for the timings that are in your motherboard (which should be all of them),the soc voltages, and the memory voltage.
Also, you can adjust timings in two menu’s on the Asrock x570 board. In the sub-menu I was in, you had to enter the value for tRFC in freaking hexadecimal! But you did not have to for any other value, nor in the other menu, and it didn’t even mention this!? I just literally read that last sentence in Linus’s critical voice, because it’s so stupid!

 

I eventually used the timings and settings the Ryzen Dram calculator gave me for “safe 3000 mhz”, and then still overclocked to 3200 anyway, because the “fast” and “extreme” profiles are no longer working with the newest version. It’s running great, and brought my “userbenchmark” memory score for 87.9 to 93%. I’m happy with that for now for 60$ Ram. 

Hardwareunboxed has a great video to teach you to properly use the Ryzen calculator. These are the settings it gave me, and the first rig. It has an RX 580. It’s for my Dad. Mine will have a 1070 and a deepcool Matrexx 55 case.