Loque Ghost S1 - Gaming

[Saible]

Budget and Location

Europe, so budget is in EUR. I would like to stay within 1.500 EUR but below outlined requirements (performance and silence) are priority, so I can if necessary go over budget.

 

Aim

100% gaming, no streaming. The PC will be in the living room next to a 60inch TV. It should be able to play everything modern, from shooters like Fortnite and Apex, to other things like Anno, and Sims. I just want it to be a platform for people to play whatever is out there. I do not need to play shooters in 4k, nor do I need VR. if 4k would be possible then all the better.

 

Monitors

As stated, its a 60inch LED to be replaced by a 75inch LED in the mid-term.

 

Peripherals

Mouse, Keyboard and Controller needed but do not need to fit into the budget

 

Why

I currently have only consoles and plan to get rid of them. I then have a MacBook for work but that's useless to game.

 

Now most importantly outside performance is silence. I do not want to hear that thing. And (to make things more interesting) I want the Loque Ghost S1 case. I have been looking into it and I know I can fit in an AIO watercooler into the top-hat, my big question is should the GPU or the CPU be water-cooled?

 

Let me know your ideas, thanks.

[Saible]

Bump up, no one any tips?

[BigRom]

From what info I could dig of the Ghost S1, it needs a SFX PSU and mini-ITX board. And tbh I'm not entirely sure if the NZXT Kraken will fit

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700K 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor  (€377.89 @ Mindfactory)
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X62 Rev 2 98.17 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  (€149.90 @ Caseking)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - Z390 I AORUS PRO WIFI Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard  (€168.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: G.Skill - Aegis 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  (€68.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Crucial - MX500 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  (€124.30 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce RTX 2060 6 GB MINI ITX OC Video Card  (€359.32 @ Mindfactory)
Power Supply: Corsair - SF 600 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply  (€111.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €1360.30
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-22 11:45 CEST+0200

[Saible]

Thanks a lot. So it will be quieter cooling the CPU liquid rather than the GPU? Would a bump to a 2080 make a difference in graphics (noise as well as performance)?

[BigRom]

17 minutes ago, Saible said:

Thanks a lot. So it will be quieter cooling the CPU liquid rather than the GPU? Would a bump to a 2080 make a difference in graphics (noise as well as performance)?

I weighed up the possible faff of installing a high-end air cooler like the Noctua NH-D15 and the NZXT AIO, and tbh it might be easier to just go with the AIO.

 

I have no idea if the 2080 will even fit in the case, the 2060 I put in is a single fan model designed for mini-ITX builds as it is. I don't know if a single-fan and short 2080 even exists....

[brob]

On 5/19/2019 at 3:33 PM, Saible said:

Now most importantly outside performance is silence. I do not want to hear that thing. And (to make things more interesting) I want the Loque Ghost S1 case. I have been looking into it and I know I can fit in an AIO watercooler into the top-hat, my big question is should the GPU or the CPU be water-cooled?

The case and aio cooling are not really compatible with the desire for silent operation.

 

There is an i7-9700 65W TDP cpu that would be a good choice for an SFF build. Unfortunately, at the moment it does not seem to be available through retail channels. Which makes the i7-8700 the best available choice for a performance quiet SFF build.

 

The psu was selected principally for its excellence and size. Some may prefer the slightly longer RM550X as it has more conservative overpower protections.

 

Currently shipping H370 motherboards should have BIOS that incorporate support for Coffee Lake Refresh cpu. However that should be verified with the merchant before purchase.

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700 3.2 GHz 6-Core Processor  (€303.00 @ Amazon Deutschland) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-U12S 55 CFM CPU Cooler  (€59.90 @ Caseking) 
Motherboard: ASRock - H370M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard  (€107.90 @ Amazon Deutschland) 
Memory: Crucial - Ballistix Sport AT 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  (€99.90 @ Caseking) 
Storage: Crucial - P1 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  (€114.99 @ Amazon Deutschland) 
Video Card: MSI - GeForce RTX 2070 8 GB Video Card  (€502.89 @ Mindfactory) 
Case: Fractal Design - Define Nano S Mini ITX Desktop Case  (€59.43 @ Mindfactory) 
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (€88.23 @ Amazon Deutschland) 
Total: €1336.24
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-23 17:05 CEST+0200

[BigRom]

6 hours ago, brob said:

Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply

@Stefan Payne correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this PSU have some issues running higher-end GPUs?

[Stefan Payne]

6 hours ago, brob said:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700 3.2 GHz 6-Core Processor  (€303.00 @ Amazon Deutschland) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-U12S 55 CFM CPU Cooler  (€59.90 @ Caseking) 
Motherboard: ASRock - H370M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard  (€107.90 @ Amazon Deutschland) 
Memory: Crucial - Ballistix Sport AT 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  (€99.90 @ Caseking) 
Storage: Crucial - P1 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  (€114.99 @ Amazon Deutschland) 
Video Card: MSI - GeForce RTX 2070 8 GB Video Card  (€502.89 @ Mindfactory) 
Case: Fractal Design - Define Nano S Mini ITX Desktop Case  (€59.43 @ Mindfactory) 
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (€88.23 @ Amazon Deutschland) 
Total: €1336.24
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-23 17:05 CEST+0200

1. Wait a Week
2. VEGA64 is available for 400€ and around the same Performance, VEGA56 Blowers (NOT RECOMMENDED from me) are available starting at 239€, a decent, 2 Slot After Market Solution for just under 300€ (Power Color Red Dragon). Something to think about.
3. ASUS Arez is available on Alternate, both the 56 for 299€ and the V64 for 399€. Both in stock there (the Sapphire Nitro+ is not available at Alternate nor in Stock on Mindfactory. According to their Store available again on the 28th -> Tuesday). Caseking has the VEGA56 Pulse, also 299€.
   Personally: I only recommend Blower VEGA if you want to Full Block Watercool them. If you want to use the Card Air Cooled -> AVOID!
    
4. Standard ITX "Tower" make no sense at all as the size saving is negligable compared to for example µATX Cases. What do you save? 50mm in height?? Negigable. BUT you have to get a more expensive ITX Board and restrict yourself in various ways.

A Silverstone RVZ-01 for example would allow for a Sapphire Nitro+ - you just have to remove the Cold Plug from the Case. And, obviously, its a bit fiddly and you have to use zip tie to fixate the GPU. But its possible without many issues.

 

11 minutes ago, BigRom said:

@Stefan Payne correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this PSU have some issues running higher-end GPUs?

Correct

 

 

On 5/22/2019 at 11:08 AM, Saible said:

Bump up, no one any tips?

Can you wait a week or so?

[Stefan Payne]

On 5/19/2019 at 9:33 PM, Saible said:

Why

Now most importantly outside performance is silence. I do not want to hear that thing. And (to make things more interesting) I want the Loque Ghost S1 case. I have been looking into it and I know I can fit in an AIO watercooler into the top-hat, my big question is should the GPU or the CPU be water-cooled?

 

Let me know your ideas, thanks.

I think you can't have what you want and either get a somewhat relatively quiet system _OR_ you can get that Case.

Not both.

With that Case you have to compromise!

 

With the "Large (Top Hat)" Option, it might be possible to get a somewhat quiet system. But there is one Problem:
The Power Supply will be rather loud/annoying. Because all SFX are, compared to some decent quality ATX PSU very small and neither have the space for decent heatsinks nor a good (sized) fan...

 

It basically means spending another 250-400€ for a Custom Loop and all the parts necessary. A CPU Block is not that expensive but a GPU Block can be 100-150€.

[brob]

18 hours ago, BigRom said:

@Stefan Payne correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this PSU have some issues running higher-end GPUs?

Initially the psu had issues with some out of spec gpu . That was corrected some time ago. https://www.techpowerup.com/249838/seasonic-focus-plus-psus-encounter-gpu-compatibility-issues, https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/seasonic-issues-warning-focus-plus-psu-has-gpu-compatibility-issues.html, https://www.tomshardware.com/news/seasonic-focus-plus-psu-compatibility-issues,38105.html.

 

There are those who feel the overcurrent protection settings are too high. Aside from that it is an excellent psu with a 10 year warranty.. As I noted the psu was chosen over an RMX for its shorter length, making the build a bit easier.

 

[brob]

18 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Standard ITX "Tower" make no sense at all as the size saving is negligable compared to for example µATX Cases. What do you save? 50mm in height?? Negigable. BUT you have to get a more expensive ITX Board and restrict yourself in various ways.

 

On 5/19/2019 at 3:33 PM, Saible said:

Now most importantly outside performance is silence.

 

[Stefan Payne]

54 minutes ago, brob said:

Initially the psu had issues with some out of spec gpu . That was corrected some time ago. 

Partially but now there are other issues - such as high ripple & Noise in overload conditions.

Proof:

http://www.pceva.com.cn/article/3911-2.html

 

Additionally:

On 5/19/2019 at 9:33 PM, Saible said:

Now most importantly outside performance is silence.

https://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/netzteile/seasonic_focus_gold/s09.php

 

Its not THAT quiet.

There are better options - be quiet Straight Power 11, Bitfenix Whisper M, 550W or better Bitfenix Formula.

Quote

There are those who feel the overcurrent protection settings are too high. Aside from that it is an excellent psu with a 10 year warranty.. As I noted the psu was chosen over an RMX for its shorter length, making the build a bit easier.

There are better PSU available for the same or only slightly more. There is no need to go with Seasonic.

52 minutes ago, brob said:

 

 

And compare the size of such ITX Tower to a µATX Tower...

 

This is your case:

https://www.caseking.de/fractal-design-define-nano-s-mini-itx-gehaeuse-schwarz-gefd-034.html?sPartner=112&utm_source=affilinet&utm_medium=cpo&utm_campaign=affilinet&wt_mc=affiliate.affilinet.feed

 203 x 330 x 400 mm (BHT)

This is another Fractal Case.

https://www.caseking.de/fractal-design-define-mini-c-tempered-glass-micro-atx-gehaeuse-schwarz-gefd-053.html

212 x 399 x 399 mm

 

So about the same with and depth but height is different - a meager 70mm, 7 Centimetre or 2¾ Inches.

[brob]

6 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Its not THAT quiet.

There are better options - be quiet Straight Power 11, Bitfenix Whisper M, 550W or better Bitfenix Formula.

 

Wow, I was responding to your comment on my case selection. Way to change the subject.

 

I consider 20 dB (A) - 21 dB (A) quiet. See below, from https://nl.hardware.info/product/402634/seasonic-focus-plus-gold-550w/testresultaten. Yes there are some psu that are a bit quieter at some power levels e.g. beQuiet! Straight Power 11 550W, 19 dB (A) - 23 dB (A), but it is a longer psu (at the recommended limit), and has a much shorter warranty. The Whisper M is nowhere near as quiet as the Seasonic or bequiet!.

 

[Stefan Payne]

1 hour ago, brob said:

Yes there are some psu that are a bit quieter at some power levels e.g. beQuiet! Straight Power 11 550W, 19 dB (A) - 23 dB (A)

Why not recommend one of those?!

Of something from a smaller company - Silverstone Strider Platinum for example...

 

1 hour ago, brob said:

but it is a longer psu (at the recommended limit),

..there is also the Bitfenix Formula...

 

1 hour ago, brob said:

and has a much shorter warranty.

Irrelevant.

Especially since nobody knows if there will be an ATX Spec in 5-10 Years or if there will be something that renders the PSU useless.

There was no point in time where it would have made sense to use a 10 Year old PSU in PC-Stuff. None.

 

1 hour ago, brob said:

The Whisper M is nowhere near as quiet as the Seasonic or bequiet!.

 

According to you, its quiet enough

Or are you measuring Seasonic with a different measure than others?

 

And there is a diffeerence between 450/550 and 650W+

The 550W is way quieter and also keeps the RPM at high load - ~450rpm is pretty quiet. The 650W+ is around 700rpm, wich isn't that quiet.

[brob]

@Stefan Payne, you are free to recommend any psu you wish. I'll stick with the models I consider superior. But I do resent the accusation that I am somehow misrepresenting the numbers.

 

From https://nl.hardware.info/vergelijkingstabel/producten/423833-402634-370283, column 1 bequiet Straight Power 11 550W, column 2 Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 550W, column 3 Corsair RM550X (if I were to recommend something other than the Focus Plus Gold this would be it), column 4 Whisper 650W not a direct comparison but the closest that the site had test data.

 

[Stefan Payne]

2 hours ago, brob said:

column 1 bequiet Straight Power 11 550W, column 2 Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 550W, column 3 Corsair RM550X (if I were to recommend something other than the Focus Plus Gold this would be it),

And?! Why you so hellbent on recommending Seasonic?
The Straight Power is a good enough alternative, according to you. Now you claim the Seasonic is quieter??

 

Oh and by the way: RIpple of the be quiet Straight Power 11 is, according to that Review, far lower...

But lets compare apples to oranges again (SP11/750 has a different Plattform)

https://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/netzteile/be_quiet_straight_power_11/s09.php - 824rpm at 750W load, 250rpm at lower loads

https://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/netzteile/seasonic_focus_gold/s09.php over 500rpm, up to ~500W, at 650W up to 1200rpm...

 

Seasonic is _NOT_ particularly quiet, in general!

2 hours ago, brob said:

column 4 Whisper 650W not a direct comparison but the closest that the site had test data.

pls read what I said:

3 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

And there is a diffeerence between 450/550 and 650W+

The 550W is way quieter and also keeps the RPM at high load - ~450rpm is pretty quiet. The 650W+ is around 700rpm, wich isn't that quiet.

So you're really arguing with the 650W Whisper M, wich I said is much louder than the 550W, to prove that the 550W is not quiet, although the 650W has ~50% higher fan RPM in lower loads?? 
RLY?

The 450/550W have a 0,45A Martech 135mm fan, the 650W and above have a 0,6A Martech Fan...

 

Here you see the difference:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11123/the-bitfenix-whisper-m-450w-850w-psu-review/2

[brob]

2 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Here you see the difference:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11123/the-bitfenix-whisper-m-450w-850w-psu-review/2

And both units have noise levels above 33 dB (A) as illustrated in the graph from your link.

 

 

2 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

And?! Why you so hellbent on recommending Seasonic?

I have explained why I felt the Seasonic was the optimal choice for this particular build. I also offered an alternative, the RM550X. If that is "hellbent" then so be it.

 

[Stefan Payne]

21 minutes ago, brob said:

And both units have noise levels above 33 dB (A) as illustrated in the graph from your link.

 

You can't compare one source to another because the measurement equipment and how they do it is different.

 

Anandtech Measurements only can be compared to Anandtech.

 

Also that measurement is wrong, as you can see here:

https://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/netzteile/bitfenix_whisper_m/s08.php

So up until ~520W the fan RPM stays the same. How can there be such a curve?? Was there a truck driving by? Did the dog sneeze?

 

But since you play that game, how about that: 550W SP11:

https://www.bequiet.com/de/powersupply/1252

Quote

I have explained why I felt the Seasonic was the optimal choice for this particular build.

And what is that exactly?
A mediocre fan with some noise?
Problems with some GPUs, wich are not necessarily fixed (Seasonic menationed ASUS GTX970 Strix wich isn't that high Power).

550W comes with only one Cable with two connectors - on just one 8pin Connector - wich might burn your cable with higher end Cards (such as VEGA). (Bitfenix and be quiet comes with two.)

High Ripple under overload, as proven above.

And Single Rail. Bitfenix has 3 rails and be quiet 4 Rails.

 

Quote

I also offered an alternative, the RM550X. If that is "hellbent" then so be it.

wich is also worse as it only has two 8pin Connectors - one for CPU, one for PCIe...

So if you ram in a higher wattage unit that might be a Problem as well.

 

The Bitfenix Whisper M 550W is just better, same as be quiet Straight Power 11. Alternative would be Silverstone Strider Platinum. 

 

 

BUT: We don't even know what Case he decides on. If he sticks with the original (really expensive) ITX one, all ATX recommendations are useless...

And the Seasonic SFX-L isn't something I'd recommend in that case either, there are better alternatives that should be prefered.

 

[Saible]

I’ll stick with the case I Chose and a different Forum was also more helpful in the Build planning. So threat can be closed.