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Need speaker suggestions

myselfolli
By myselfolli
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Go to solution Solved by Derkoli,
Just now, myselfolli said:

So I'd calculate the runtime (at max crank) like this: 


Battery Capactiy * Voltage / AMP Watts

//So in my case:

45Ah * 12V / 480W
= 540Wh / 480W
= 1.125h

?

Yes.

Posted

Hello everybody!

 

I'm trying to find good speakers for the AMP I'm going to put into my car, but I'm having trouble figuring out what to watch out for when matching speakers and AMPs, and I'm hoping you guys could help me...

The AMP's a Crunch GPX 1000.4...

 

If there are any questions or technical details you'd need in order to find decent speakers, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

Thank you in advance!

75% of what I say is sarcastic

 

So is the rest probably

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1 minute ago, NinJake said:

What car?

It's actually not going to be put into a car, but into bike trailer. I figured putting it simply would be easier than explaining this ^^

 

I'm using 12V car batteries to power the whole thing, so it shouldn't make a difference...

75% of what I say is sarcastic

 

So is the rest probably

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Just now, NinJake said:

Ah interesting! What's your budget?

Up to 150€ I'd say. The speakers don't need to be amazing.

 

If the budget is too small, I can up it slightly, so don't hesitate to suggest speakers that cost more

75% of what I say is sarcastic

 

So is the rest probably

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4 hours ago, NinJake said:

Are you building your own enclosure for the speakers? Do you want to utilize all 4 channels of your amp I'm assuming?

Sorry, just saw your reply.

 

Yes I'll be building an enclosure (to the best of my ability) and yes I'm planning to utilize all channels.

75% of what I say is sarcastic

 

So is the rest probably

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Okay I've done some research and now I am more confused than ever before (so that didn't work out too well obviously)...

 

From what I understand the AMP I've got pushes 70W at 4 Ohms on all four channels. Does that mean, that it'll push 35W at 8 Ohms on all four channels?

Also the 70W/4Ohm/4Channels seems to be the 'average' or 'usual' wattage (it's hard to translate, the article I read was in German) or RMS (that one seems to be international), but the AMP could push a max of 140W at 4 Ohms to all four channels.

 

And here's where it get's confusing for me:

I'm looking to get full range speakers, the ones I'm currently eyeing up (Visaton BG 20) have an efficiency (again, may be a bad translation) of 92dB/W/m and they can take up to 40W RMS. Would that mean, that two of those speakers in series would work fine per channel? And that I could drive a total of up to 8 of those speakers (2 per channel with 4 channels)? And what about the peak wattage of 140W my AMP could push? Would that blow my speakers?

 

I'm really quite new to all of this and while it's interesting, I'm very confused. Any help and/or clarification is very much appreaciated ^^

75% of what I say is sarcastic

 

So is the rest probably

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6 minutes ago, myselfolli said:

Okay I've done some research and now I am more confused than ever before (so that didn't work out too well obviously)...

 

From what I understand the AMP I've got pushes 70W at 4 Ohms on all four channels. Does that mean, that it'll push 35W at 8 Ohms on all four channels?

Also the 70W/4Ohm/4Channels seems to be the 'average' or 'usual' wattage (it's hard to translate, the article I read was in German) or RMS (that one seems to be international), but the AMP could push a max of 140W at 4 Ohms to all four channels.

 

And here's where it get's confusing for me:

I'm looking to get full range speakers, the ones I'm currently eyeing up (Visaton BG 20) have an efficiency (again, may be a bad translation) of 92dB/W/m and they can take up to 40W RMS. Would that mean, that two of those speakers in series would work fine per channel? And that I could drive a total of up to 8 of those speakers (2 per channel with 4 channels)? And what about the peak wattage of 140W my AMP could push? Would that blow my speakers?

 

I'm really quite new to all of this and while it's interesting, I'm very confused. Any help and/or clarification is very much appreaciated ^^

 

I think I'm slowly getting the hang of it now, putting it all down in writing helped I think.

 

I just noticed, that the Visaton BG 20's (the speakers) have an impedance of 8 Ohms, wouldn't that mean, that my AMP would push 35W per channel anyways? So my AMP could drive a grand total of four of the speakers to ~107dB?

 

Spoiler

According to what I found online, this is how you calculate how loud a speaker can get at what wattage:
Start with the speakers efficiency rating, then for each step add three dB and double the wattage

 

92dB - 1W

95dB - 2W

98dB - 4W

101dB - 8W

104dB - 16W

107dB - 32W

 

75% of what I say is sarcastic

 

So is the rest probably

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Hi there, been very busy at work today but it seems like you're on the right track. I haven't had time to look further into these speakers and I've only dealt with subwoofers and amplifiers before and not the speakers. Maybe others here will give you some insight otherwise I will check out some more things as I get time to. Good luck still!

 

My other question is are there any particular size requirements for the speakers? There's quite a few sizes to choose from.

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Just now, NinJake said:

Hi there, been very busy at work today but it seems like you're on the right track. I haven't had time to look further into these speakers and I've only dealt with subwoofers and amplifiers before and not the speakers. Maybe others here will give you some insight otherwise I will check out some more things as I get time to. Good luck still!

 

My other question is are there any particular size requirements for the speakers? There's quite a few sizes to choose from.

There's no size requirement, no. I'm just very much new to the world of HiFi (the most interesting thing I did before this was setting up my soundbar and that was very much plug and play) so I'm happy about any suggestions ^^

75% of what I say is sarcastic

 

So is the rest probably

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2 hours ago, myselfolli said:

Okay I've done some research and now I am more confused than ever before (so that didn't work out too well obviously)...

 

From what I understand the AMP I've got pushes 70W at 4 Ohms on all four channels. Does that mean, that it'll push 35W at 8 Ohms on all four channels?

Also the 70W/4Ohm/4Channels seems to be the 'average' or 'usual' wattage (it's hard to translate, the article I read was in German) or RMS (that one seems to be international), but the AMP could push a max of 140W at 4 Ohms to all four channels.

 

And here's where it get's confusing for me:

I'm looking to get full range speakers, the ones I'm currently eyeing up (Visaton BG 20) have an efficiency (again, may be a bad translation) of 92dB/W/m and they can take up to 40W RMS. Would that mean, that two of those speakers in series would work fine per channel? And that I could drive a total of up to 8 of those speakers (2 per channel with 4 channels)? And what about the peak wattage of 140W my AMP could push? Would that blow my speakers?

 

I'm really quite new to all of this and while it's interesting, I'm very confused. Any help and/or clarification is very much appreaciated ^^

Most likely it will push 35 into 8 ohm, probably a little bit more than 35, maybe 37, and by "average" and "usual" it means RMS, so continuous power. if the speakers are 2 or 3/4 ohm each then yes they would work fine in series, it would not blow the speakers.

LTT's Resident Porsche fanboy and nutjob Audiophile.

 

Main speaker setup is now;

 

Mini DSP SHD Studio -> 2x Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC's (fed by AES/EBU, one feeds the left sub and main, the other feeds the right side) -> 2x Neumann KH420 + 2x Neumann KH870

 

(Having a totally seperate DAC for each channel is game changing for sound quality)

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1 hour ago, myselfolli said:
  Hide contents

 

I think I'm slowly getting the hang of it now, putting it all down in writing helped I think.

 

I just noticed, that the Visaton BG 20's (the speakers) have an impedance of 8 Ohms, wouldn't that mean, that my AMP would push 35W per channel anyways? So my AMP could drive a grand total of four of the speakers to ~107dB?

 

  Hide contents

According to what I found online, this is how you calculate how loud a speaker can get at what wattage:
Start with the speakers efficiency rating, then for each step add three dB and double the wattage

 

92dB - 1W

95dB - 2W

98dB - 4W

101dB - 8W

104dB - 16W

107dB - 32W

 

The amp would most likely not drive them to 107 Db, as efficiency is taken at 1 watt at 1khz with 1% distortion THD, and ofc music isnt just a 1khz sine wave. Also cabinet's have a huge effect on how loud the speaker will get. a sub will make essentially no noise without a cabinet.

LTT's Resident Porsche fanboy and nutjob Audiophile.

 

Main speaker setup is now;

 

Mini DSP SHD Studio -> 2x Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC's (fed by AES/EBU, one feeds the left sub and main, the other feeds the right side) -> 2x Neumann KH420 + 2x Neumann KH870

 

(Having a totally seperate DAC for each channel is game changing for sound quality)

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13 hours ago, Derkoli said:

The amp would most likely not drive them to 107 Db, as efficiency is taken at 1 watt at 1khz with 1% distortion THD, and ofc music isnt just a 1khz sine wave. Also cabinet's have a huge effect on how loud the speaker will get. a sub will make essentially no noise without a cabinet.

Hey, thanks for your input!

 

What would you suggest? Would the speakers I picked work properly? And what kind of cabinet would you recommend I build?

75% of what I say is sarcastic

 

So is the rest probably

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46 minutes ago, myselfolli said:

Hey, thanks for your input!

 

What would you suggest? Would the speakers I picked work properly? And what kind of cabinet would you recommend I build?

The visatons look pretty decent, i would wire them in parallel for a cabinet i would go sealed as you wouldnt have to worry about getting the port size correct for the drivers displacement etc, like this: image.png.406856e9ddf5bfdc534260c3dfbebe97.png

LTT's Resident Porsche fanboy and nutjob Audiophile.

 

Main speaker setup is now;

 

Mini DSP SHD Studio -> 2x Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC's (fed by AES/EBU, one feeds the left sub and main, the other feeds the right side) -> 2x Neumann KH420 + 2x Neumann KH870

 

(Having a totally seperate DAC for each channel is game changing for sound quality)

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Just now, Derkoli said:

The visatons look pretty decent, i would wire them in parallel for a cabinet i would go sealed as you wouldnt have to worry about getting the port size correct for the drivers displacement etc, like this: image.png.406856e9ddf5bfdc534260c3dfbebe97.png

Okay sweet, so that means that I can wire up a total of 8 speakers on my 4 channels, correct?

 

How would I calculate the power draw of this setup?

75% of what I say is sarcastic

 

So is the rest probably

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1 minute ago, myselfolli said:

Okay sweet, so that means that I can wire up a total of 8 speakers on my 4 channels, correct?

 

How would I calculate the power draw of this setup?

Depends how efficient the amp is tbh. if its only 50% efficient then it would draw double the power it outputs etc. speakers can get quite loud on like 4 watts of power. so 4 x 8 = 32, so the amp might draw 40 watts at normal listening levels, it depends on the audio really. (the amp should be 12 volt so times the amperage the fuse is by 12 and thats the maximum amount of watts it can draw)

LTT's Resident Porsche fanboy and nutjob Audiophile.

 

Main speaker setup is now;

 

Mini DSP SHD Studio -> 2x Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC's (fed by AES/EBU, one feeds the left sub and main, the other feeds the right side) -> 2x Neumann KH420 + 2x Neumann KH870

 

(Having a totally seperate DAC for each channel is game changing for sound quality)

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1 minute ago, Derkoli said:

Depends how efficient the amp is tbh. if its only 50% efficient then it would draw double the power it outputs etc. speakers can get quite loud on like 4 watts of power. so 4 x 8 = 32, so the amp might draw 40 watts at normal listening levels, it depends on the audio really. (the amp should be 12 volt so times the amperage the fuse is by 12 and thats the maximum amount of watts it can draw)

Yeah it's a 12V AMP. Just to be sure (because I want the car batterie/s to last pretty much all day) - if I have a 45Ah batterie at 12V, that'd be 540 Wh, how long could I run the 8 speaker setup?

75% of what I say is sarcastic

 

So is the rest probably

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Just now, myselfolli said:

Yeah it's a 12V AMP. Just to be sure (because I want the car batterie/s to last pretty much all day) - if I have a 45Ah batterie at 12V, that'd be 540 Wh, how long could I run the 8 speaker setup?

Really depends on how efficient the amp is, and the music played. my amps can use 1kw sometimes or 25 watts sometimes.

LTT's Resident Porsche fanboy and nutjob Audiophile.

 

Main speaker setup is now;

 

Mini DSP SHD Studio -> 2x Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC's (fed by AES/EBU, one feeds the left sub and main, the other feeds the right side) -> 2x Neumann KH420 + 2x Neumann KH870

 

(Having a totally seperate DAC for each channel is game changing for sound quality)

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1 minute ago, Derkoli said:

Really depends on how efficient the amp is, and the music played. my amps can use 1kw sometimes or 25 watts sometimes.

How can I find the efficiency? I don't want to find out, that the AMP will kill the batterie within 30 minutes when I'm actually trying to use it...

75% of what I say is sarcastic

 

So is the rest probably

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Just now, myselfolli said:

How can I find the efficiency? I don't want to find out, that the AMP will kill the batterie within 30 minutes when I'm actually trying to use it...

Look at the manafacturers website, its usually listed..

 

LTT's Resident Porsche fanboy and nutjob Audiophile.

 

Main speaker setup is now;

 

Mini DSP SHD Studio -> 2x Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC's (fed by AES/EBU, one feeds the left sub and main, the other feeds the right side) -> 2x Neumann KH420 + 2x Neumann KH870

 

(Having a totally seperate DAC for each channel is game changing for sound quality)

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8 minutes ago, Derkoli said:

Look at the manafacturers website, its usually listed..

 

Sorry to keep bugging you, but I'm having now luck with that atm. I found an owners manual, but I can't find any efficiency ratings on there...

75% of what I say is sarcastic

 

So is the rest probably

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1 minute ago, myselfolli said:

Sorry to keep bugging you, but I'm having now luck with that atm. I found an owners manual, but I can't find any efficiency ratings on there...

Right so its a 480 watt amp, so the batteries will last just over an hour with amp at full crank with the signal clipping (which you wont be doing lol) so i would expect the batteries to last 2/2.5 hours ish at normal listening volume.

LTT's Resident Porsche fanboy and nutjob Audiophile.

 

Main speaker setup is now;

 

Mini DSP SHD Studio -> 2x Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC's (fed by AES/EBU, one feeds the left sub and main, the other feeds the right side) -> 2x Neumann KH420 + 2x Neumann KH870

 

(Having a totally seperate DAC for each channel is game changing for sound quality)

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40 minutes ago, Derkoli said:

Right so its a 480 watt amp, so the batteries will last just over an hour with amp at full crank with the signal clipping (which you wont be doing lol) so i would expect the batteries to last 2/2.5 hours ish at normal listening volume.

So I'd calculate the runtime (at max crank) like this: 

Battery Capactiy * Voltage / AMP Watts

//So in my case:

45Ah * 12V / 480W
= 540Wh / 480W
= 1.125h

?

75% of what I say is sarcastic

 

So is the rest probably

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Just now, myselfolli said:

So I'd calculate the runtime (at max crank) like this: 


Battery Capactiy * Voltage / AMP Watts

//So in my case:

45Ah * 12V / 480W
= 540Wh / 480W
= 1.125h

?

Yes.

LTT's Resident Porsche fanboy and nutjob Audiophile.

 

Main speaker setup is now;

 

Mini DSP SHD Studio -> 2x Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC's (fed by AES/EBU, one feeds the left sub and main, the other feeds the right side) -> 2x Neumann KH420 + 2x Neumann KH870

 

(Having a totally seperate DAC for each channel is game changing for sound quality)

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