Converting an External Hard Drive USB 3.0 to Ethernet

[Chairein]

I have a Seagate Expansion External Hard Drive USB 3.0 which used to plug nicely into the Linksys WRT AC1200 router I previously had - using this, I could access my hard drive's files from any computer on the network. I have since committed to the Ubiquiti life, purchasing an EdgeRouter X, a couple of US-8 Unifi switches, and a few UniFi AP Lites. Unfortunately, none of the Ubiquiti products have a USB slot.

 

I thought I would be clever by purchasing the the Plugable USB 3.0 to Ethernet LAN network adapter (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AQM8586/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and a SuperSpeed USB 3.0 Coupler Adapter (Type A Female to Female) (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0793NX3GR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) so that I could do something like Routher->Ethernet cable->USB 3.0 to Ethernet adapter->USB 3.0 coupler->External Harddrive USB 3.0. Alas, this did not work - the external hard drive did not even turn on.

 

Any thoughts on where I went wrong here? Any more clever ideas than mine?

[TempestCatto]

The only thing I can think of is maybe a POE injector to power the drive? But then again, that could damage it, so back up your stuff before you try it.

[seagate_surfer]

If it does not turn on, the answer would be a little "simpler". The Ethernet adapter cannot power your device! Yes, that's it, it sounds easy, right? But the problem is that if the Ethernet port cannot provide power over the ethernet, if it is not ready to send power through Ethernet, this will not work.

 

So the big question is: "Can your Ubiquiti power on other devices?" or "Are the Ethernet ports of the Ubiquiti devices Power-over-Ethernet ports?"

 

You can read more about this type of ports in the link below but summarizing everything, some Ethernet ports can provide energy and data, but the  majority of ports are for data only and cannot power on devices: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet

 

The good thing is that the majority of Ethernet switches are PoE-enabled networking devices, so you will need to contact them and ask if those ports are PoE or if the ports on those units are for data only, if this was the case you will need a power injector and connect the Ethernet cable to the power injector first so that you can connect another Ethernet cable to the power injector and have a PoE enabled port, it looks something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Gigabit-Injector-Power-over-Ethernet/dp/B0153STO2S

 

[Chairein]

1 hour ago, seagate_surfer said:

If it does not turn on, the answer would be a little "simpler". The Ethernet adapter cannot power your device! Yes, that's it, it sounds easy, right? But the problem is that if the Ethernet port cannot provide power over the ethernet, if it is not ready to send power through Ethernet, this will not work.

 

So the big question is: "Can your Ubiquiti power on other devices?" or "Are the Ethernet ports of the Ubiquiti devices Power-over-Ethernet ports?"

 

You can read more about this type of ports in the link below but summarizing everything, some Ethernet ports can provide energy and data, but the  majority of ports are for data only and cannot power on devices: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet

 

The good thing is that the majority of Ethernet switches are PoE-enabled networking devices, so you will need to contact them and ask if those ports are PoE or if the ports on those units are for data only, if this was the case you will need a power injector and connect the Ethernet cable to the power injector first so that you can connect another Ethernet cable to the power injector and have a PoE enabled port, it looks something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Gigabit-Injector-Power-over-Ethernet/dp/B0153STO2S

 

Hi @seagate_surfer - your explanation makes sense, although I am a bit confused on one thing - I see that my external hard drive does plug into a standard electric port, as well as the USB piece. Is that first connection with the wall outlet insufficient to power the device? I suppose the result makes it obvious, but I would have assumed I would not require PoE if the power is coming from this other source.

[TempestCatto]

Come to think of it, we don't know what external drive you have. Post a link to it. We all assumed your drive was BUS powered, thus our recommendations for POE. But since you're now saying your drive is powered externally, well that's a different story. There's, perhaps, more that goes into this than we previously thought. There may need to be some kind of digital conversion of USB to Ethernet at both ends. Else I'd think your router/switch just simply does not support USB drives at all. You may end up needing to get a small NAS of some kind instead.

[Chairein]

3 minutes ago, TempestCatto said:

Come to think of it, we don't know what external drive you have. Post a link to it. We all assumed your drive was BUS powered, thus our recommendations for POE. But since you're now saying your drive is powered externally, well that's a different story. There's, perhaps, more that goes into this than we previously thought. There may need to be some kind of digital conversion of USB to Ethernet at both ends. Else I'd think your router/switch just simply does not support USB drives at all. You may end up needing to get a small NAS of some kind instead.

Here it is: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TKFEEJ4/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1. Seagate Expansion 3TB Desktop External Hard Drive USB 3.0 (STEB3000100)

[seagate_surfer]

Yes, I think his explanation confused me, it looked like that the device was powered by the computer and not by its own power adapter. One possibility is that the Ubiquiti is not compatible with USB as mentioned by TempestCatto. Another possibility is that the Ethernet to USB adapter you are using is not compatible with this particular model and the reason why it happens is that you are adding more and more hardware, so that compatibility problems may arise. I would try something simpler instead, maybe this little friend can help you:  https://www.amazon.com/SinLoon-AF-RJ45-AF-8P8C-Connector-Transfer/dp/B00Z2LRS7A 

You are also making some networking here, so I would not be surprised if you had to access the Ubiquiti interface and check if the device is in the list of connected devices and then assign a specific IP address to this unit and then go the computer settings and try to add the device via the network, remember this will no longer be a USB device because you are putting something in between the computer and the drive. More than two devices connected is a network, that's part of the fundamentals of networking. 

[Chairein]

31 minutes ago, seagate_surfer said:

Yes, I think his explanation confused me, it looked like that the device was powered by the computer and not by its own power adapter. One possibility is that the Ubiquiti is not compatible with USB as mentioned by TempestCatto. Another possibility is that the Ethernet to USB adapter you are using is not compatible with this particular model and the reason why it happens is that you are adding more and more hardware, so that compatibility problems may arise. I would try something simpler instead, maybe this little friend can help you:  https://www.amazon.com/SinLoon-AF-RJ45-AF-8P8C-Connector-Transfer/dp/B00Z2LRS7A 

You are also making some networking here, so I would not be surprised if you had to access the Ubiquiti interface and check if the device is in the list of connected devices and then assign a specific IP address to this unit and then go the computer settings and try to add the device via the network, remember this will no longer be a USB device because you are putting something in between the computer and the drive. More than two devices connected is a network, that's part of the fundamentals of networking. 

Thank you for the suggestions, and the info! I'll buy this little guy today and will try out the solution end of this week (God bless Amazon Prime). Another question though: my US-8 Unifi switch does have a PoE. What if I turned this port 'on' as a means to power the device? I assume the risk is damaging the external Seagate HD in this situation?

[Chairein]

Wanted to provide a quick update for everyone: so I found a way to circumvent my issue by turning the old Linksys router/modem into strictly a switch/AP by following Net VN's YouTube video on 'Access Point Mode on Linksys Wifi router'. Still going to wait for that device that @seagate_surfer recommended to come in, though, as I'm curious if I can get my printer online in that manner, or possibly an additional external HD. A quick note: Linksys Smart Wifi page does NOT seem to link Chrome - took me a while to figure out I had to do the configurations in IE so the user interface will load.

 

Will try to keep everyone posted when the device comes in, though I'm loathe to change anything at the moment because it appears to be working. Thank you everyone for the help and support!  

[seagate_surfer]

 

57 minutes ago, Chairein said:

Thank you for the suggestions, and the info! I'll buy this little guy today and will try out the solution end of this week (God bless Amazon Prime). 

 

57 minutes ago, Chairein said:

Another question though: my US-8 Unifi switch does have a PoE. What if I turned this port 'on' as a means to power the device? I assume the risk is damaging the external Seagate HD in this situation?

 

Well, it seems that the PoE standard was built with this question in mind... So, the Ethernet cable also has its own standards separate from the PoE standards, but of course, they must work together to make this work. Look in the section "Powering Devices". The Ethernet cable has different categories, Category 3, Category 5, Category 5e and 6. And when talking about the device that feeds other devices via Ethernet (PSE or power supply equipment), it will be the PSE who will determine the amount of power what will be applied based on the category of the Ethernet cable used, but also the PSE does not only determine how much power to apply, it will test the Ethernet cable to know if the device that will receive power can actually handle power via Ethernet. The PoE devices need to comply with the PoE standards because those devices need to include one resistor to test whether the resistance is too high or too low and any of those cases will not provide power. In theory, if the PoE device was built well under the standards of PoE, it will not provide power to devices that are not PoE compliant. Bottom line: Your units should be safe even when you connect them to a PoE port.

[seagate_surfer]

7 minutes ago, Chairein said:

Wanted to provide a quick update for everyone: so I found a way to circumvent my issue by turning the old Linksys router/modem into strictly a switch/AP by following Net VN's YouTube video on 'Access Point Mode on Linksys Wifi router'. Still going to wait for that device that @seagate_surfer recommended to come in, though, as I'm curious if I can get my printer online in that manner, or possibly an additional external HD. A quick note: Linksys Smart Wifi page does NOT seem to link Chrome - took me a while to figure out I had to do the configurations in IE so the user interface will load.

 

Will try to keep everyone posted when the device comes in, though I'm loathe to change anything at the moment because it appears to be working. Thank you everyone for the help and support!  

Cool! That's taking advantage of what you already have, I completely forgot some Wi-Fi modems can be adjusted to work as a modem only or a switch in your case... And sure! You are welcome! Post more if you still need more help. 

[AbydosOne]

On 1/18/2019 at 10:29 AM, Chairein said:

I have a Seagate Expansion External Hard Drive USB 3.0 which used to plug nicely into the Linksys WRT AC1200 router I previously had - using this, I could access my hard drive's files from any computer on the network. I have since committed to the Ubiquiti life, purchasing an EdgeRouter X, a couple of US-8 Unifi switches, and a few UniFi AP Lites. Unfortunately, none of the Ubiquiti products have a USB slot.

 

I thought I would be clever by purchasing the the Plugable USB 3.0 to Ethernet LAN network adapter (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AQM8586/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and a SuperSpeed USB 3.0 Coupler Adapter (Type A Female to Female) (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0793NX3GR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) so that I could do something like Routher->Ethernet cable->USB 3.0 to Ethernet adapter->USB 3.0 coupler->External Harddrive USB 3.0. Alas, this did not work - the external hard drive did not even turn on.

 

Any thoughts on where I went wrong here? Any more clever ideas than mine?

I can't tell if I'm missing something here, but what you described won't work and will not ever work. If you think you're being clever with computer hardware, chances are it isn't going to work; this is a good example.

 

That Ethernet adapter (a.k.a. NIC, or network interface card) is meant to be used with a "host device", i.e. a laptop, desktop, smart TV, Android phone, etc. You can't just adapt it around to connect to whatever thing you want.

Spoiler

(I don't know what those adapters are for, other than being sold to people who think things like this work. I've yet to encounter a practical use for them.)

PoE won't help here because you can't get PoE backward (!!!) across a USB NIC. The NIC needs to be powered by the host device (i.e. USB side); it cannot be powered over PoE, let alone power a device on the host side from it.

11 hours ago, seagate_surfer said:

Yes, I think his explanation confused me, it looked like that the device was powered by the computer and not by its own power adapter. One possibility is that the Ubiquiti is not compatible with USB as mentioned by TempestCatto. Another possibility is that the Ethernet to USB adapter you are using is not compatible with this particular model and the reason why it happens is that you are adding more and more hardware, so that compatibility problems may arise. I would try something simpler instead, maybe this little friend can help you:  https://www.amazon.com/SinLoon-AF-RJ45-AF-8P8C-Connector-Transfer/dp/B00Z2LRS7A 

You are also making some networking here, so I would not be surprised if you had to access the Ubiquiti interface and check if the device is in the list of connected devices and then assign a specific IP address to this unit and then go the computer settings and try to add the device via the network, remember this will no longer be a USB device because you are putting something in between the computer and the drive. More than two devices connected is a network, that's part of the fundamentals of networking. 

DO NOT USE THIS ADAPTER between anything on your network (ESPECIALLY if it's PoE!) and your hard drive! USB and Ethernet ARE NOT pin compatible in any official standard. Shame on @seagate_surfer for even suggesting it! You risk damaging the hard drive and/or your networking equipment. From the Amazon listing:

Quote

"It can be used to connect a USB ADSL modem to a router with an RJ45 socket"

--- Begin my actual answer:

 

You were using your previous router as a quick-and-dirty NAS, which is perfectly valid (I used to do it), but more professional stuff doesn't have that capability. I can't find anything quickly that does that in a simple package, but something like a Raspberry Pi would work, or any cheap used laptop. Basically, you need a 'computer' (in loose terms) to host both the hard drive and the network sharing software. Same goes for printers (if they don't have Wi-fi/networking built in already, as most do), though you could get an old USB 2.0 print server (I stress, old...).

 

TL;DR: Rethink everything you're doing and don't listen to @seagate_surfer.

Edited January 22, 2019 by AbydosOne
Unneeded aside.

[Chairein]

Morning @AbydosOne  - thanks for following this thread and providing feedback. Not sure if you saw my last post, but I was able to setup my old Linksys SmartWifi router in 'Bridge Mode' (with some YouTube help - see above) which now appears to give me access to use the USB 3.0 port while on the Ubiquiti main router (or whatever the technical term for this would be). It seems to work, and in some ways echos another cheap-and-dirty way as you mentioned with the old computer.

 

How exactly would I use an old computer in the manner you described? Would I essentially just leave the computer 'on' at all times and then access the hard drive connected to it through 'Network'? If so, is this a noticeable electricity cost (or perhaps that is beyond the scope of this conversation)?

[AbydosOne]

8 minutes ago, Chairein said:

Morning @AbydosOne  - thanks for following this thread and providing feedback. Not sure if you saw my last post, but I was able to setup my old Linksys SmartWifi router in 'Bridge Mode' (with some YouTube help - see above) which now appears to give me access to use the USB 3.0 port while on the Ubiquiti main router (or whatever the technical term for this would be). It seems to work, and in some ways echos another cheap-and-dirty way as you mentioned with the old computer.

 

How exactly would I use an old computer in the manner you described? Would I essentially just leave the computer 'on' at all times and then access the hard drive connected to it through 'Network'? If so, is this a noticeable electricity cost (or perhaps that is beyond the scope of this conversation)?

I did see that, I just needed to make sure nobody else followed along with what @seagate_surfer was saying should they come along later.

 

Essentially, all a server is is a computer that's always on when you need something from it, so pretty much anything can be a server if configured properly. Most of the time (in use cases like yours), the computer will be idle and power draw will be fairly low. For example, my low-end actual server (with four hard drives) draws something like 40-50W at idle. Electricity is cheap, at least in the US (I think most people are surprised by that fact), and measured in pennies per kilowatt-hour (It costs roughly $0.12 to run a microwave for an hour, for example). Running my server is something like $4.50 a month in electricity (50/1000 KW * 24 hours * 30 days * $0.12). If you use something even lower powered (like your router, or Raspberry Pi, or old laptop), that price will drop.

 

If you want to use an old computer, and it already has Windows installed (at least XP, but you'll probably want something Win7 or up), you can just connect to the network, connect the hard drive, and then share the drive to the network (I think the option in right there if you right click on the drive in "Computer"). See here.

 

A Raspberry Pi is perhaps the most DIY way to do it and takes some know-how, see here.

 

Or as you said, using your router the way you have it now will work just fine. Honestly, probably the best idea for now; just giving you ideas for the future, I guess .

[burnttoastnice]

On 1/18/2019 at 4:29 PM, Chairein said:

so that I could do something like Routher->Ethernet cable->USB 3.0 to Ethernet adapter->USB 3.0 coupler->External Harddrive USB 3.0

 

Noooo nooo nooooo that won't work.

 

Go grab your old router and turn off it's DHCP server, give it a static IP (make sure it's an unused one on the same subnet as your Ubiquiti router). Plug your portable hard drive into the old router, then plug your old router into your Ubiquiti router. Point your pc to the static IP of the old router. Problem solved.

 

This might be quite a complicated process though if you're not used to networking, I'm hoping someone else has the time to break it down further.