IBM i OS (formerly OS/400 and i5/OS)

[Phas3L0ck]

I have the installation packages (.iso and other) for the rare and unusual IBM i OS and various applications that associate with it, as well as some AS/400 service packages and some miscellaneous ones like Domino 9.01 FP2 for Windows and others I can't identify...

 

I have all the installation data for i OS 6.1, 7.2, and the newest version 7.3.

I stumbled upon these install packages at random on an FTP server that no longer exists, and retrieved them what seems to be just months after the release of i OS 7.3, so I got lucky big time in this one. The download from that server was long and painful at a mere 20-70KBytes/second! That coupled with the lack of availability of this software anywhere else and the fact that it's still a fairly recent build (and that it came from IBM) makes this find one of the jewels of my software collection.

There's 1 big problem though; I have no idea how to make it work even if I had the hardware to use it on...  It's so special that I could never bear to simply get rid of it, so I'm keeping it archived in my best storage drive until I can figure out what to do with it

 

EDIT: If you're interested in knowing exactly what files I have, please PM me for a list of file names and sizes. If you want to acquire them, legally I can't offer anything directly, but I can point you in a direction of where they might be retrievable.

 

The main purpose for this thread (recently anyway) is to determine what these installation packages all do and how the software works. Naturally very few of us have any idea how IBM proprietary UNIX based systems work, but I'm hoping someone out there will reply with experience they might have managing or at least observing the operation of the i OS system or the optional application packages offered by IBM to go along with the OS. My first question is, how different is i OS from AIX, and what are the basics of how it works?

Next I'd love to know how it's commonly used and installed-- I might get a small POWER server sometime, but it would be nice to at least know how to set it up first.

[Guest]

Well first of all I have no idea on how should that different from AIX or traditional unices, but what I would suggest is trying QEMU which supports a sh*ton variety of architectures, I once run AT&T Unix and Nextstep, an easy way to set it up would be libvirt + kvm + virt-manager in your favorite linux distro

 

obviously it won't be hardware accelerated for anything that isn't x86, but for an old system like that should be fine.

 

as every OS from that age I'm 80% sure there is a boot floppy image where you install the main OS from there 

 

 

[Phas3L0ck]

23 minutes ago, Lukyp said:

Well first of all I have no idea on how should that different from AIX or traditional unices, but what I would suggest is trying QEMU which supports a sh*ton variety of architectures, I once run AT&T Unix and Nextstep, an easy way to set it up would be libvirt + kvm + virt-manager in your favorite linux distro

 

obviously it won't be hardware accelerated for anything that isn't x86, but for an old system like that should be fine.

 

as every OS from that age I'm 80% sure there is a boot floppy image where you install the main OS from there 

 

 

Excuse me, what exactly do you think I have, OS2? First off, everyone knows IBM i and AIX, just about any software from IBM will only run on the IBM POWER CPU. Second what do you mean "old system?" The new IBM i for high end POWER servers wasn't even a thing until 2008. The version I have is BRAND NEW, apparently released in 2016.

Maybe I could emulate the ancient OS/400 or i5/OS, but that's not even what I have!

 

And third, if I had the hardware to run this software, why would I ever virtualize it when I could fully enjoy trying it on bare metal?

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Phas3L0ck said:

Excuse me, what exactly do you think I have, OS2? First off, everyone knows IBM i and AIX, just about any software from IBM will only run on the IBM POWER CPU. Second what do you mean "old system?" The new IBM i for high end POWER servers wasn't even a thing until 2008. The version I have is BRAND NEW, apparently released in 2016.

Maybe I could emulate the ancient OS/400 or i5/OS, but that's not even what I have!

 

And third, if I had the hardware to run this software, why would I ever virtualize it when I could fully enjoy trying it on bare metal?

Yeah dude chill, I said I had no idea, I just didn't want to ignore the thread because I'm interested in those things too, I didn't even know they're still developing something that isn't AIX or for some reason you have IBM hardware in your home, which anyway QEMU can emulate this too

[Phas3L0ck]

Is anyone out there interested in this at all?

[Talon_3361]

On 10/27/2019 at 2:23 PM, Phas3L0ck said:

Is anyone out there interested in this at all?

I believe they answered you...

On 1/2/2019 at 5:57 AM, Guest said:

 I'm interested in those things too,

And I'll second their "dude, chill" as you're coming across as rather terse.

[wasab]

On 1/1/2019 at 7:24 PM, Phas3L0ck said:

And third, if I had the hardware to run this software, why would I ever virtualize it when I could fully enjoy trying it on bare metal?

Because you have no idea how to get it up and running and most people like me have absolutely no clue of what you are even talking about? The only thing that comes to my mind when I heard power cpus and IBM is mainframe computers which aren't excatly things you have in your house. 

[RpgforAS400]

I worked on AS/400s since they came out in the 1980s. Not sure you can do what you want, but would be neat if you could. iOS is tightly integrated with the hardware, but I think it worth pursuing.  Start with the Software Install Guide for the version you want to installation (although the guide doesn't change much), it will walk you thru the install process.  It should work for 70 days, then you will need a key from IBM. 

[Phas3L0ck]

3 hours ago, RpgforAS400 said:

I worked on AS/400s since they came out in the 1980s. Not sure you can do what you want, but would be neat if you could. iOS is tightly integrated with the hardware, but I think it worth pursuing.  Start with the Software Install Guide for the version you want to installation (although the guide doesn't change much), it will walk you thru the install process.  It should work for 70 days, then you will need a key from IBM. 

Hey there! I never thought someone would search for this post, much less find it.

Neat that you know your way around the system-- that must mean you're a seasoned technician of... can I say late 40s-early 60s? (just guessing, but people who know IBM especially are typically older folks)

 

I'm not sure either what I can do with it. I don't even know how it works.

Would have to double check, but I don't think my lucky catch includes any manuals. I literally found all of this i OS 7.3 (and under) stuff by accident while I was scanning FTP servers years ago. I don't believe the server even exists anymore-- I searched and never found it again.

 

70 days? That's not bad. But still kinda sucks if I ever wanted to use it.

I'm guessing you have access to the current versions of IBM software, then, do you?

I heard i OS 7.4 came out... what's that like compared to 7.3?

[RpgforAS400]

Close, 65.  Started working in the late 1970's with IBM Mid-range (GSD computers), way before PC's !

 

Search google for the manuals-"ibm ios manuals", takes you to the IBM websites "Knowledge Center"s, that have the manuals.  V7 most available, but can search for V6 (and others if necessary).

 

I really don't have access to IBM software, I was a worker bee programmer (RPG, of course) on business applications, but did do some neat stuff over the years.  One of last projects was taking credit cards for Order Entry (take the credit card, then via Java contacting the CC provider, and posting info back to the AS/400 database).  We had a website on a separate AS/400 that also took orders (including credit cards), verified information, than wrote the order to the production AS/400.  Pretty neat tricks for an "old" computer !

 

If you want to play on an AS/400, checkout PUB400.com, it is a live system, and you can sign up to use it.

 

OBTW, back in the 1970's IBM wanted an OS for replacing 360/370 systems, they came up with "Future Systems" (catchy name ?).  The mainframe people decided it was way too different for the Mainframe crowd, so GSD picked it up, and it became the S/38 (for runner of the AS/400).  At the time, it was way ahead of it's time-used 40 bit architecture, couple years later they bumped it to 48 bit, doing so under the covers with no user changes !  As disk requirements grew, they bumped again, to 64 bit, again, under the covers and with (very few) use changes !  Try that on Windozs !  And all the while, the user code was backward compatible.  It really is an awesome system.

[Dat Guy]

The problem with modern IT is that all the "new", "shiny" inventions are nothing but a colorful reimplementation of ideas from the 60s, 70s or 80s.

[Phas3L0ck]

5 hours ago, RpgforAS400 said:

...back in the 1970's IBM wanted an OS for replacing 360/370 systems, they came up with "Future Systems" (catchy name ?).  The mainframe people decided it was way too different for the Mainframe crowd, so GSD picked it up, and it became the S/38 (for runner of the AS/400).  At the time, it was way ahead of it's time-used 40 bit architecture, couple years later they bumped it to 48 bit, doing so under the covers with no user changes !  As disk requirements grew, they bumped again, to 64 bit, again, under the covers and with (very few) use changes !  Try that on Windozs !  And all the while, the user code was backward compatible.  It really is an awesome system.

Sounds like fun.

I'll be honest, though... I've been looking for a way to offload some stuff like this from my own database for years, and find someone interested in taking it-- someone who hopefully understands it. The i OS 7.3 folder alone is like ~170GB (compressed) and everything else is miscellaneous AS/400 service data, extra software, and and older version 6~ of i OS.  If you want, I can send the data over to you. You certainly would have more use for it than I ever will.

[RpgforAS400]

Certainly agree with Dat Guy.  On the System/3 (IBM, of course), we had a program called CCP that permitted interactive terminals to talk to the system.  It was later called "Windows" by the PC community !

 

Phas3LOck:  Would love to help you offload your stuff.  I am currently building a Linux machine to run Hercules with 360/370 software, when I saw with VMware I could do AIX, that was a bonus !  And now an AS/400 !  Double bonus !  How do we proceed ?

[Phas3L0ck]

@RpgforAS400 I've heard funny stories like that; people get so attached to the Windows GUI that anything the slightest bit more interactive than CDE is like a variant of Windows to them.  **I'm looking at you, X-window system!**

 

Sounds fun. Never heard of Hercules before, but a quick search says it's an emulator of some sort...

What flavor of linux do you prefer?  I know there are very few choices for an IBM system outside of RedHat (RHEL) and SUSE (SLES)...

 

Last I checked, using AIX in VMware is not possible, because AIX runs the proprietary POWER architecture, and VMware only uses AMD64/Intel-IA32 extensions. But it is possible to emulate the ancient version-1 (and maybe v2?) of AIX, due to the timing and availability of software and hardware archetypes back then.

 

I will compile transit information for the i OS and AS/400 data, and send you details via PM once I get my machine up and running today.

In the meantime, have a look at my profile to see my server's current and planned specs. You're not the only one building something cool, but very few besides us can do what we're doing.

[RpgforAS400]

I am not really a Linux guy (I right case everything !), so take it easy on me !  

 

Somewhere I read VMware would do Linux, but that must have been wrong.  Found QEMU quite by mistake (and it lead me to this thread), that makes more sense since it does PowerPC.  I am still taking baby steps (but since I am retired, I have the time) with PC servers, on the AS/400 it "just all worked".  I do have AIX 6.1, still working building the machine (dual processor, 64G memory per processor).  Little over my head (like that's something new), but I am sure it will work (someday).  Looks like you are way beyond me on the Server side, but then it is hard to get dinosaurs to dance !  (IBM did have a dancing hippo on OS/2 !).

[Phas3L0ck]

@RpgforAS400 Ok that makes sense.  For reference, you can run any version of linux on vmware as long as it's x86 or X64 directly. ARM is not yet possible, but planned for the future. And you can run linux as the host and install VMware IN linux to run a Windows VM. That's a nice feature to have.

 

Ah, so you're an AIX guy, that makes this even more fun! I happen to have a copy of the AIX 7.1 installer from something I found a few years ago. And I have AIX 4.3.3, 5.3, and 6.1 in storage too.

 

Beyond you? I don't think so. I may have years of experience with PC tech, but I'm still just getting started with servers. It's only slightly easier for me because I specialize in hardware, instead of wasting my time writing software no one wants.

Haha, I love dinosaurs! Both literally and metaphorically. Dinosaurs are cool, and lots of fun to see and learn about.  In terms of old technology, I'm a huge fan of IBM tech-- mostly the 90's generation of PC hardware. One of my favorites was a 300XL (I think) with a Pentium-2 Klamath core at 233MHz, and about 96MB of RAM (expandable to 384MB) and could run windows 95 or 98, but I found Windows 2000 Advanced Server edition to be more stable and feature-rich, and getting updates for it was easy with my personal WSUS server.  I'm also fond of the world-famous original keyboards by IBM; the model-M, model-F, and the KB-8923. As much as I would have loved the model-M, it didn't have the windows keys or the newer menu key (which I use very frequently, being keyboard-oriented for most tasks) so I went along with the KB-8923 until parts of the aging plastic broke and it had to be tossed.

[Dat Guy]

AIX is notably more interesting than Linux which is not much more than a badly implemented AIX emulator. Of course, your mileage may vary.

But I'm one of those people who can't stand any post-90s desktop design.

 

3 hours ago, Phas3L0ck said:

I'm also fond of the world-famous original keyboards by IBM; the model-M, model-F, and the KB-8923.

Beamspring keyboards are said to be much better, but I haven't had one of them yet. They are damn expensive anyway.

I'm typing this on a Model F XT, connected to a Windows 10 desktop, though. Good enough!

 

3 hours ago, Phas3L0ck said:

As much as I would have loved the model-M, it didn't have the windows keys

Here you go:

https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI044A

 

(Unicomp is the current name of the factory that makes Model M keyboards.)

[Phas3L0ck]

55 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

...I'm one of those people who can't stand any post-90s desktop design.

 

Beamspring keyboards are said to be much better, but I haven't had one of them yet. They are damn expensive anyway.

I'm typing this on a Model F XT, connected to a Windows 10 desktop, though. Good enough!

 

Here you go:

https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI044A

 

(Unicomp is the current name of the factory that makes Model M keyboards.)

Agreed. I still have my explorer shell set to look as much as possible like Windows 95/98/2K because it was much easier to navigate. Windows XP had the luxury of a minor upgrade, but that went away as soon as Windows 7 came out. I use a combination of Classic Shell and other modifications I did by hand like killing ballloon tips and taskbar thumbnail view. Took some experimenting to get it right, but I have it mostly perfect now.

 

I haven't tried them either. Would be interested in getting my hands on one, but don't really care anymore.

A Model F on Windows 10? I dare say that's "selfie-worthy" and totally badass!

 

Yes yes I'm very well aware of the Model M remake, but I've completely lost interest for two reasons;

1: When I first encountered the Model M out of luck, I also acquired a KB-8923 at the same time and preferred it over the old one-- not only due to the inclusion of the keys the M lacked, but also the considerably smaller footprint and less "heft" with equally comfortable keystrokes, despite it having the accursed "rubber domes" which were surprisingly springy despite what they are.

2. I just dropped $200 to get a special version of the Leopold FC750R-PS TKL keyboard with the "Blue-Black" key color (think dark mode) and I still have to replace the awful MX Red switches with MX Green, which will be another monumental task on top of scraping along to build my server, and then hopefully resell the used MX Reds to recover some of the cost from replacing the switches-- but first pray I have good enough tools and skills to do it right, otherwise it'll be painful as hell to repair.

 

As much as I would love to get my hands on the IBM SSK model (Unicomp is working on a new one) I've already spent whatever extra I had on something that still isn't finished yet, so that's not happening anytime soon.

[Dat Guy]

19 minutes ago, Phas3L0ck said:

I still have my explorer shell set to look as much as possible like Windows 95/98/2K because it was much easier to navigate.

For me, the last really good file manager that Microsoft made was FILEMAN.EXE. At least Microsoft still maintains it.

 

19 minutes ago, Phas3L0ck said:

Would be interested in getting my hands on one, but don't really care anymore.

You should!

 

19 minutes ago, Phas3L0ck said:

A Model F on Windows 10? I dare say that's "selfie-worthy" and totally badass!

I don't do selfies, but here you go:

 

 

(Weirdly positioned for privacy reasons. After all, this is the company's computer. But the keyboard is mine.)

 

All you need is a cable.

 

19 minutes ago, Phas3L0ck said:

Yes yes I'm very well aware of the Model M remake

It is not a "remake" - it is the Model M.  

 

19 minutes ago, Phas3L0ck said:

also the considerably smaller footprint and less "heft"

The "heft" ... again, typing this on a Model F ... is one of the reasons why I like the "older" keyboards. Unless you want to carry them around, having a strong case is essential for longevity. There are "less horrible" rubber dome keyboards, e.g. older Fujitsus, but I still prefer the springs because of their sound and the awesome feeling under my fingers.

 

21 minutes ago, Phas3L0ck said:

a special version of the Leopold FC750R-PS TKL keyboard

Hmm, I am not a fan of TKL keyboards. Admittedly, the Leopold has a less awful keyboard layout than some other contenders though.

 

22 minutes ago, Phas3L0ck said:

the IBM SSK model (Unicomp is working on a new one)

They have promised that for quite a few years now. I lost my hope.

[Phas3L0ck]

6 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

...Hmm, I am not a fan of TKL keyboards. Admittedly, the Leopold has a less awful keyboard layout than some other contenders though.

----------

They have promised that for quite a few years now. I lost my hope.

Dude... the fact that you even took the time to write that response... it's like meeting myself from another universe!

 

Yeah, I looked at almost all known brands before making my final decision. Leopold is much nicer in design than others since they have a more compact case (but unfortunately is very difficult to open) and relatively square keys (they're actually almost sharp on the edges!)  But the thing I really can't stand aside from the MX Red switches is the entire bottom row-- the one with the CTRL, ALT, spacebar, etc... keys is simply too low. I know the keys are shaped differently for every row, and that's not a big issue, but being a HUGE user of hotkey combinations, the entire bottom row is annoying me to death (except the spacebar, ironically) and makes it hard to punch in a specific combination for some things-- or I hit the Windows key when I'm aiming for the Menu key (which never used to happen with other keyboards) AND Leopold only gives you one Windows key, and you can use a DIP switch on the bottom to choose which side you want it on. (Mine's on the right because I use the right side more often, and there's and alternate combo for the left side)  Another mild irritation is the Function key placement being a little over a centimeter too far to the right of where I usually have them.  But hey, this is the closest thing I could find to decent.  Why can't everyone just make a simple TKL keyboard, with good, strong switches?  *AND DON'T EVEN START WITH ME ON DUCKY!!!*

 

----------

I think they might do it eventually, but I could always scour abandoned buildings to get lucky with an SSK, and later add on a low-profile expansion to include the missing Windows and Menu keys I need on it.

[Dat Guy]

1 hour ago, Phas3L0ck said:

it's like meeting myself from another universe!

Eww!

 

1 hour ago, Phas3L0ck said:

Leopold is much nicer in design than others since they have a more compact case

HHKB would like to have a word in here. (But they're awful in my opinion.)

 

1 hour ago, Phas3L0ck said:

Why can't everyone just make a simple TKL keyboard, with good, strong switches?

Cherry MX are not good, strong switches. They're cheap plastic with a horrible sound. They are not made from metal springs ...  ... how many different vendors for one type of keyboard do you need?

[Phas3L0ck]

5 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

Eww!

 

HHKB would like to have a word in here. (But they're awful in my opinion.)

 

Cherry MX are not good, strong switches. They're cheap plastic with a horrible sound. They are not made from metal springs ...  ... how many different vendors for one type of keyboard do you need?

HHKB is junk!  The Japanese have some great technology, but not everything of theirs is nice...

 

I agree, MX is not strong at all (except I have yet to try and feel the MX green switch) and they may be plastic, but so are the keys on a keyboard. Really, what else are things supposed to be made from? Metal? Ceramic? Concrete?

I only need one vendor to get the design right, and Leopold came pretty close.

[Dat Guy]

5 minutes ago, Phas3L0ck said:

HHKB is junk!

We agree again!

 

5 minutes ago, Phas3L0ck said:

they may be plastic, but so are the keys on a keyboard.

There is a huge quality difference between 1980s plastic key caps and 21st century plastic Cherry switches.

 

7 minutes ago, Phas3L0ck said:

what else are things supposed to be made from? Metal? Ceramic? Concrete?

Metal is just fine.

[Phas3L0ck]

1 minute ago, Dat Guy said:

We agree again!

 

There is a huge quality difference between 1980s plastic key caps and 21st century plastic Cherry switches.

 

Metal is just fine.

That's true, but IMHO plastic is plastic.

 

I like metal, but it causes problems by adding a conductive surface.

 

...and we're waaay off-topic.  Please let me know if you have any comments or questions that are IBM-related.

(Let's talk keyboards by PM)

[RpgforAS400]

I really hate Windoz !  Finally got past all the "we are protecting you, and started the download.

 

Torrents are new to me, but looks easy (after using Google).  Says it will take a week and 2 days (it dropped a day while I was typing), so we will see.

 

Thanks for the info.