240mm + 360mm, CPU overheating

[done12many2]

3 minutes ago, airdeano said:

got a pic of the motherboard socket area?

could be the surrounding caps or plastics keeping the block from properly seating to the CPU.

 

Not the greatest, but this was from my old 4790k/MSI Z97S Krait setup, which is what he's using.  I don't remember anything close enough to obstruct the block, which makes me wonder about his mounting screws or something with the socket retention mechanism itself.  

[Simon771]

7 hours ago, done12many2 said:

Hammers fix a lot of things so never completely rule that out as an option.  

 

I say that you spend more time finding out what it is that is stopping the block from making full contact.  It's either the bolts/screws themselves or something on the board.

That's true, but not for PC  

I haven't ever used hammer to fix PC so far.

After few hours of sleeping, I realised perfect idea how to test what is block me. I will just apply little thermal paste on CPU waterblock and spread it around so it will be very thin. Then I just gently put it on CPU and remove it. Then I will see where thermal paste will land.

 

2 hours ago, airdeano said:

got a pic of the motherboard socket area?

could be the surrounding caps or plastics keeping the block from properly seating to the CPU.

 

2 hours ago, done12many2 said:

 

Not the greatest, but this was from my old 4790k/MSI Z97S Krait setup, which is what he's using.  I don't remember anything close enough to obstruct the block, which makes me wonder about his mounting screws or something with the socket retention mechanism itself.  

 

When I get home from work today, I will take my PC apart again, and take some pictures. But it looks very similiar to that picture from done12many2.

[itsmyjobtoknow]

This may or may not help you, but you may want to open up the block and clean it out.

 

I've had a similar issue with a Copper Acetal EVO Block where it kept getting crap in it and caused my 3770K's temp to be higher than what it was suppose to be especially having a 360 and a 280 rad. 

[bughtoo]

Just now, itsmyjobtoknow said:

This may or may not help you, but you may want to open up the block and clean it out.

 

I've had a similar issue with a Copper Acetal EVO Block where it kept getting crap in it and caused my 3770K's temp to be higher than what it was suppose to be especially having a 360 and a 280 rad. 

he already found out what that the problem was, his Block is not touching the CPU, not the block itself....

[Simon771]

12 minutes ago, itsmyjobtoknow said:

This may or may not help you, but you may want to open up the block and clean it out.

 

I've had a similar issue with a Copper Acetal EVO Block where it kept getting crap in it and caused my 3770K's temp to be higher than what it was suppose to be especially having a 360 and a 280 rad. 

Nothing is wrong with block itself.

And this loop is like few weeks old, so nothing is "alive" in my loop, like alges or anything.

 

11 minutes ago, bughtoo said:

he already found out what that the problem was, his Block is not touching the CPU, not the block itself....

Exactly ... just need to find out, what is blocking my waterblock from directly touching CPU.

[Simon771]

To update this: I received shims today, and when I used one of them, it was touching directly on CPU now.

4,4GHz at 1,2V, gives me 80°C temp when stress testing just CPU.

Tried to get 4,7GHz, and it went to 90°C in no time.

 

As soon as I get back from vacations, I'm tearing my system apart, and good bye water cooling.

I don't know if I'm that stupid and uncapable of setting my lopp correctly or is there something else wrong with it, but I spent almost 700€ just for that loop already, and so far I don't see any benefit from it whatsoever.

I just don't have the pantience to deal with this any longer.

 

And since this is Slovenia, I don't think I will find some buyer who will want to buy that from me, so that loop is going directly into trash.

 

Thanks everyone for all the help along the road, but it seems like water cooling just isn't for me

 

[done12many2]

Just now, Simon771 said:

To update this: I received shims today, and when I used one of them, it was touching directly on CPU now.

4,4GHz at 1,2V, gives me 80°C temp when stress testing just CPU.

Tried to get 4,7GHz, and it went to 90°C in no time.

 

As soon as I get back from vacations, I'm tearing my system apart, and good bye water cooling.

I don't know if I'm that stupid and uncapable of setting my lopp correctly or is there something else wrong with it, but I spent almost 700€ just for that loop already, and so far I don't see any benefit from it whatsoever.

I just don't have the pantience to deal with this any longer.

 

And since this is Slovenia, I don't think I will find some buyer who will want to buy that from me, so that loop is going directly into trash.

 

Thanks everyone for all the help along the road, but it seems like water cooling just isn't for me

 

 

No way man!  Don't do it.

 

If you do and before you trash it, let me know and I'll pay shipping.  

[done12many2]

You have all the right parts.  We've just got to get you dialed in and you'll be set.  

 

The shims are a terrible idea.  You've added an additional required layer of thermal paste by using it and simply put, that's not the way to do it.  Heat transfer is not going to work as good that way.  We need to figure out why your block isn't making solid contact with the CPU's IHS without the use of a shim.

 

There's also a small possibility that you 4790k has some degraded TIM between the die and the IHS.  I've never experienced it, but I know others have.

[Simon771]

49 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

You have all the right parts.  We've just got to get you dialed in and you'll be set.  

 

The shims are a terrible idea.  You've added an additional required layer of thermal paste by using it and simply put, that's not the way to do it.  Heat transfer is not going to work as good that way.  We need to figure out why your block isn't making solid contact with the CPU's IHS without the use of a shim.

 

There's also a small possibility that you 4790k has some degraded TIM between the die and the IHS.  I've never experienced it, but I know others have.

Yeah I won't throw it away ... but that temperatures are just making me mad.

I was also looking on some forums about deliding CPU. Since this i7 4790K was manufactured almost 3 years ago, I guess it's very possible that TIM is wearing off or something.

But that would be voiding warranty of bran new CPU ... and I'm just too affraid to do it  

 

Made some pictures of my CPU set up. Did some testing, what's blocking it. And it's that CPU holding thingy. On the right side, waterblock left mark.

So I'm not sure now ... is CPU bent or CPU socket or motherboard.

There are 3 screws for CPU socket, and I did unscrew them a bit and then again screwed them back in. Nothing changed.

 

Nothing much to see from pictures below, just how thermal paste was spreaded when I removed cooler, and then on last 3 pictures you can see on the right side of the socket, marks of thermal paste. If it was working as it should, thermal paste should be all over the CPU, but there is just a little touch on right side like 1mm of it.

Frustrating.

[Simon771]

@done12many2

And may I ask once again, what are your temps on CPU when running AIDA64 stress test.

Just CPU Stress test temps?

 

CPU + FPU + Cache stress test? This one seems to be burning my CPU all the time ... FPU is cancer for CPU.

 

Otherwise loops seems fine ... GPU never goes even to 50°C. While gaming and valley stress testing, it's chilling at 45°C.

It jump to 50°C only when I heat up the loop with CPU and GPU both at 100%.

[done12many2]

5 minutes ago, Simon771 said:

@done12many2

And may I ask once again, what are your temps on CPU when running AIDA64 stress test.

Just CPU Stress test temps?

 

CPU + FPU + Cache stress test? This one seems to be burning my CPU all the time ... FPU is cancer for CPU.

 

Otherwise loops seems fine ... GPU never goes even to 50°C. While gaming and valley stress testing, it's chilling at 45°C.

It jump to 50°C only when I heat up the loop with CPU and GPU both at 100%.

 

I'll run them again for you bud.  Give me a little while to wrap up what I'm doing right now.

 

Additionally, we are cooling two different CPUs so it won't be an apples to apples comparison by any means, but I can disable 4 cores for a slightly better comparison.  

 

Also, from what I can tell, the water block is being stopped by the caps to the left of the socket.

[Simon771]

5 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

I'll run them again for you bud.  Give me a little while to wrap up what I'm doing right now.

 

Additionally, we are cooling two different CPUs so it won't be an apples to apples comparison by any means, but I can disable 4 cores for a slightly better comparison.  

 

Also, from what I can tell, the water block is being stopped by the caps to the left of the socket.

I would realy appreciate that.

I know it won't be apples to apples.

You have more cores and more heat, but more rad space and 2 pumps ... so in the end there shouldn't be huge difference between my temps and yours.

 

May I ask what caps on the left?

Those screws that hold waterblock?

[done12many2]

I believe the caps on the left are preventing the block from lowing far enough to make contact with the CPU IHS.  So the left side of the block is higher than the right side of the block when mounted.  This allows the right side to make contact, but the left side is suspended in the air just above the IHS.  

 

 

[done12many2]

I should have use bigger arrows in my first picture, but you can actually see TIM on the caps after you removed the block that was completely covered.

[Simon771]

1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

I should have use bigger arrows in my first picture, but you can actually see TIM on the caps after you removed the block that was completely covered.

Oh jeasus ... yeah, that's what blocking my waterblock ...

Just used flash light to see, and it's like 1mm in the way.

There are even marks of thermal paste on pictures that I made. How the hell did I miss that -.-

 

But I have no idea how to fix that problem now. Cutting my waterblock nickel surface on left side? That sounds like bad idea.

Pushing those caps more to thee left and away from waterblock path ... again bad idea.

 

Buying new motherboard ... I just bought that one like 1 month ago.

I'm not even earning money so fast to swap my components so often.

 

Any advice?

[done12many2]

Just now, Simon771 said:

Oh jeasus ... yeah, that's what blocking my waterblock ...

Just used flash light to see, and it's like 1mm in the way.

There are even marks of thermal paste on pictures that I made. How the hell did I miss that -.-

 

But I have no idea how to fix that problem now. Cutting my waterblock nickel surface on left side? That sounds like bad idea.

Pushing those caps more to thee left and away from waterblock path ... again bad idea.

 

Buying new motherboard ... I just bought that one like 1 month ago.

I'm not even earning money so fast to swap my components so often.

 

Any advice?

We'll figure it out, but if it's the nickel plate on the block, you can definitely shave that down a bit to allow for clearance.  You're only trying to gain a little more clearance so it shouldn't be too bad at all.  If its the black mount that the nickle plate and block assembly is attached to, that's even easy.

 

The hard part was identifying to the problem, which you did.  Fixing it is easy.    

[done12many2]

Per this diagram, you need to verify which part is actually making contact so you know what needs some modification.  Is it the "copper base" or the "mounting plate"?

[Simon771]

1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

We'll figure it out, but if it's the nickel plate on the block, you can definitely shave that down a bit to allow for clearance.  You're only trying to gain a little more clearance so it shouldn't be too bad at all.  If its the black mount that the nickle plate and block assembly is attached to, that's even easy.

 

The hard part was identifying to the problem, which you did.  Fixing it is easy.    

But still I'm not sure how much will that help me.

Right now it's touching like directly on it. And still high temps.

Removing IHS scares the crap out of me. I can destroy my CPU by doing that. And 100% voiding warranty.

 

Fixing my sounds easy to you military guy who have all kind of tools at home

I just have basic philips screw thingy lol

 

[done12many2]

Just now, Simon771 said:

But still I'm not sure how much will that help me.

Right now it's touching like directly on it. And still high temps.

Removing IHS scares the crap out of me. I can destroy my CPU by doing that. And 100% voiding warranty.

 

Fixing my sounds easy to you military guy who have all kind of tools at home

I just have basic philips screw thingy lol

 

Haha.  We're not touching the CPU IHS at all.  Look at my last post so we can figure out which part of the water block is touching the caps.

 

I do prefer my guns over my tools.  

[Simon771]

1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

Haha.  We're not touching the CPU IHS at all.  Look at my last post so we can figure out which part of the water block is touching the caps.

 

I do prefer my guns over my tools.  

Well yeah we are not touching it yet. But do you think that once I remove shim and nothing will be in the way anymore, temps will drop for 30°C?

I have my doubts. Lots of them.

 

You and your guns  

 

So I did take new pictures ... I'm pretty sure that black thing isn't in the way.

Not sure if you can see it well on picture, but when I look at it, it's like 0,5cm away from those black thingies on motherboard.

Shim is only 0,5mm thick, so without shim there is still like 0,4cm before black thing will touch motherboard coils or whatever is that.

 

So do I just unscrew those 4 screws and brush nickel plate a little bit?

 

Do I need those 3 caps on motherboard? There are still plently left if I remove them haha

[done12many2]

Just now, Simon771 said:

Well yeah we are not touching it yet. But do you think that once I remove shim and nothing will be in the way anymore, temps will drop for 30°C?

I have my doubts. Lots of them.

 

You and your guns  

 

So I did take new pictures ... I'm pretty sure that black thing isn't in the way.

Not sure if you can see it well on picture, but when I look at it, it's like 0,5cm away from those black thingies on motherboard.

Shim is only 0,5mm thick, so without shim there is still like 0,4cm before black thing will touch motherboard coils or whatever is that.

 

So do I just unscrew those 4 screws and brush nickel plate a little bit?

 

Do I need those 3 caps on motherboard? There are still plently left if I remove them haha

 

First thing, great pictures of the problem.  Second thing, you owe me a beer next time I'm in Slovenia.  Wait what?

 

Do not just loosen the nickel plate.  You need to disassemble the block to determine how much material can be safely removed from the left side of that nickel/copper base.  If there's plenty of material, which if I remember correctly there is, then you should be able to just grind the base down enough to allow clearance.

 

To be honest, you live right down the street from EK.  Maybe you can show them the lack of clearance and maybe they can help you out. 

 

I'd have no worries about grinding it down some as long as you don't mess with the area near the rubber seal inside the block or take too much material away.

[Simon771]

Just now, done12many2 said:

 

First thing, great pictures of the problem.  Second thing, you owe me a beer next time I'm in Slovenia.  Wait what?

 

Do not just loosen the nickel plate.  You need to disassemble the block to determine how much material can be safely removed from the left side of that nickel/copper base.  If there's plenty of material, which if I remember correctly there is, then you should be able to just grind the base down enough to allow clearance.

 

To be honest, you live right down the street from EK.  Maybe you can show them the lack of clearance and maybe they can help you out. 

 

I'd have no worries about grinding it down some as long as you don't mess with the area near the rubber seal inside the block or take too much material away.

If you ever come to this country, you will get full pack of beers and pica, and after that we can go to EKWB, since they like personal visits so much

 

I did look at that block more. You think I can't just remove nickel plate and leave everything else as it is? If I need to completly remove everything, I need to drain my loop and do everything all over again. And I don't have any draining system so it would take me hours and hours ...

Also another problem:

 

If I grind it like this, screws won't be holding it together well anymore.

I can't even grind 1mm of it like this.

 

Unless you want me to brush whole plate.

[done12many2]

No, you don't want to remove the entire edge.  You just want to grind a half circle away in the exact areas coming in contact.  So put the block back in and use a marker to mark the center of where the nickel/copper base is touching the caps.  

 

You will need to drain the loop, but just capture all of the fluid into an empty water bottle so that you can reuse it.  If you are good and you have a circular grinder, you could do it without removing the block or draining the loop, but you want to place a towel under it so that none of the nickel of copper shavings drop into you case or motherboard.  That could be bad.

 

Beer and Pica sounds good.  I'll let you know if I'm ever in your neighborhood.  

[OddsCrazyStuff]

6 minutes ago, Simon771 said:

If I grind it like this, screws won't be holding it together well anymore.

I can't even grind 1mm of it like this.

 

Unless you want me to brush whole plate.

By the looks of it, so do you just need to cut the part between the screws. That should make the problem go away.

[Simon771]

4 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

No, you don't want to remove the entire edge.  You just want to grind a half circle away in the exact areas coming in contact.  So put the block back in and use a marker to mark the center of where the nickel/copper base is touching the caps.  

 

You will need to drain the loop, but just capture all of the fluid into an empty water bottle so that you can reuse it.  If you are good and you have a circular grinder, you could do it without removing the block or draining the loop, but you want to place a towel under it so that none of the nickel of copper shavings drop into you case or motherboard.  That could be bad.

 

Beer and Pica sounds good.  I'll let you know if I'm ever in your neighborhood.  

 

Just now, OddsCrazyStuff said:

By the looks of it, so do you just need to cut the part between the screws. That should make the problem go away.

 

Oh yeah that makes more sense.

I will just mark the spot, and I'm pretty sure my father have something for that to kinda peel it off. Not sure how is that device called, but we should have it somewhere in the garage.

But I will do that tommorow. This problem had me enough for today  

Will update this tommorow when I get from work.

 

But if that won't keep my temps under 70°C at all times ... I will have to open up my CPU and hope not to break it.