Elgato Vs Game Capture

[Zarocus1337]

Hey Everyone,

    My name is Johnny and I am reaching out to you because I am an aspiring Live Streamer. I happen to have two systems. The specs are as follows:

Widowmaker:

Threadripper 1950X
Gigabyte X399 Aorus Gaming 7
G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3200MHz DDR4 Dual Channel 2x16GB (To cut costs)
EVGA GTX 1060 SSC 6GB (Going to upgrade to a 1080/1180)
Enermax Liqtech TR4 280mm AIO

Razer:

FX-8370
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3
G.Skill Sniper 1866MHz DDR3 Dual Channel 2x8GB

2x XFX RX 470 4GB Limited
NZXT Kraken X62 240mm AIO

I am wondering if I were to use my Elgato HD60 Pro to capture my desktop game-play if I would see better performance through the Elgato instead of doing "Game Capture"? Any ideas, suggestions, or tips would help and be appreciated.

 

Thank you,

 

JustGamingJohnny

[PlayStation 2]

From what I remember, the HD60 Pro has its own hardware encoding shit, so it would actually be a bit faster. However, both the Nvidia and AMD cards offer pretty stellar GPU video encoding from the get-go. Unless you're recording outside sources that aren't your PC(s), you might as well just shoot for GPU encoding.

[Sfekke]

1 hour ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

From what I remember, the HD60 Pro has its own hardware encoding shit, so it would actually be a bit faster. However, both the Nvidia and AMD cards offer pretty stellar GPU video encoding from the get-go. Unless you're recording outside sources that aren't your PC(s), you might as well just shoot for GPU encoding.

This is a common misconception, it doesn't encode on its own.

When you record your own PC then you could use H.264 encoding from AMD/NVIDIA.

If however you want to record from a console or other PC's HDMI connection an Elgato is helpful or any other capture card.

[Zarocus1337]

@Dan Castellaneta From the research I have done online I've seen that it has the encoding and that it does not have the encoding. Honestly even the Elgato website from what I remember did not show if it did or did not have the encoding abilities (I want to say not). However, after scrolling down to the specs I see that they do have it checked off as a "Has". Link is below:

https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/game-capture-hd60-pro

[Zarocus1337]

@Sfekke As I said in my previous comment I've seen it online as it has or does not have the encoder. My main concern is if I would see a better benefit in having it in the PC I am gaming and streaming from or if I should put it into a seperate PC (Razer FX-8370) and capture my main PC. Eventually I will be replacing my FX-8370 with a Ryzen 7 2700X and upgrading my 1060 6GB SSC to a 1080ti/1180ti. Depending on what happens within the next four to six months. If we see the 11 series launch and it is a superior improvement (which I believe could go either way) over the 10 series. Then I'll go 1180ti. If not. Then I'll go 1080ti. IF the price is worth it as well.

[PlayStation 2]

8 minutes ago, Zarocus1337 said:

@Dan Castellaneta From the research I have done online I've seen that it has the encoding and that it does not have the encoding. Honestly even the Elgato website from what I remember did not show if it did or did not have the encoding abilities (I want to say not). However, after scrolling down to the specs I see that they do have it checked off as a "Has". Link is below:

https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/game-capture-hd60-pro

Oh fuck, sorry then.

Yeah, in that case, there's literally no point to get yourself a capture card.

[Zarocus1337]

2 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Oh fuck, sorry then.

Yeah, in that case, there's literally no point to get yourself a capture card.

@Dan Castellaneta I actually already have the Elgato HD60 Pro. I am just wondering if it would be more beneficial to put it into the same machine I game from or a separate machine.

[ninbura]

10 minutes ago, Zarocus1337 said:

@Dan Castellaneta I actually already have the Elgato HD60 Pro. I am just wondering if it would be more beneficial to put it into the same machine I game from or a separate machine.

You will only see a benefit with that capture card if it is in a separate system than the one you're gaming on.

[ninbura]

40 minutes ago, TheAgnda said:

You will only see a benefit with that capture card if it is in a separate system than the one you're gaming on.

Actually I think I am mistaken here, I own an HD60 Pro along with a few other capture cards and do my recording in FFmpeg & OBS but it would seem that if you use Elgato's software the HD60 Pro actually does handle encoding:


So to sum things up, if you use Elgato's Game Capture software you actually will offload encoding to the card itself as opposed to your CPU or GPU saving resources. However in this scenario you are still writing to your hard drive which could affect performance if it is the same one you're gaming on, this can easily be resolved writing to a separate hard drive in the same system which would still use some resources but extremely little.  If you plan on using OBS or other recording software your CPU or GPU will have to handle the encoding with the HD60 Pro acting only as a gateway. In this scenario you will see no difference, in terms of resource allocation, between OBS Game Capture and the HD60 Pro. Lastly if you put the HD60 Pro in a separate system the encoding and writing will obviously be off loaded to that PC not the one you're gaming on.

Sorry for the misinformation earlier.

[Sfekke]

38 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Oh fuck, sorry then.

Yeah, in that case, there's literally no point to get yourself a capture card.

To split the workload, that is what I'd use one for.

[ninbura]

PS while your GTX 1060 does have a dedicated encoding chip this doesn't mean you're are free from performance dips in game while encoding on the same GPU you are gaming on. While it does indeed have a dedicated encoding chip there isn't RAM dedicated to encoding, encoding will dip into the cards VRAM which is the same RAM used to buffer frames. This is easy to see by opening task manager, clicking the performance tab, the GPU, and then recording. That being said this may have no effect in less demanding games, and little effect even in the most demanding games at high resolutions, but something to note nonetheless.

[Zarocus1337]

1 hour ago, TheAgnda said:

While it does indeed have a dedicated encoding chip there isn't RAM dedicated to encoding, encoding will dip into the cards VRAM which is the same RAM used to buffer frames

So if I am to understand correctly the Elgato would still rely on the Graphics Card Video RAM? So in a way @Sfekke's idea of having it in the second machine would be better.

Then how about this setup?

Widowmaker:

Threadripper 1950X
Gigabyte X399 Aorus Gaming 7
1080ti/1180ti (Haven't looked at them in awhile)
32GB DDR4 Quad Channel 3200Mhz

Ryzen 7 2700X:
^
Gigabyte X470 Gaming 7 WiFi
EVGA GTX 1060 SSC 6GB (From Widowmaker)
32GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3200MHz DDR4 (From Widowmaker)
Elgato HD60 Pro

 

I am assuming that I wouldn't see any frame drops or stutters in game while capturing/streaming through the Ryzen 7 Machine? Which in turn would make all of its "assets" dedicated to *for lack of better phrase* content creation?

[ninbura]

18 minutes ago, Zarocus1337 said:

So if I am to understand correctly the Elgato would still rely on the Graphics Card Video RAM? So in a way @Sfekke's idea of having it in the second machine would be better.

Then how about this setup?
 

I am assuming that I wouldn't see any frame drops or stutters in game while capturing/streaming through the Ryzen 7 Machine? Which in turn would make all of its "assets" dedicated to *for lack of better phrase* content creation?

You only rely on the graphics cards VRAM if you are encoding with the graphics card. If you encode using only the HD60 Pro via their software you should see absolutely no performance hit even when recording on the same PC you're gaming on, assuming your writing files to a drive different from the one you're gaming on.

That being said, the only way to offload 100% of the recording workload from your components is to put the capture card in a separate PC like you are saying. There are other benefits in terms of convenience, not to mention you already have the second PC so it really makes the most sense. 

[Zarocus1337]

5 minutes ago, TheAgnda said:

You only rely on the graphics cards VRAM if you are encoding with the graphics card. If you encode using only the HD60 Pro via their software you should see absolutely no performance hit even when recording on the same PC you're gaming on, assuming your writing files to a drive different from the one you're gaming on.

I should've clarified what I use to stream with. I use Stream Labs OBS as the "streaming" software. I have actually never tried to use the Elgato software to stream with. But yeah thank you for your help. You've cleared up a ton of questions in my head.

[ninbura]

4 minutes ago, Zarocus1337 said:

I should've clarified what I use to stream with. I use Stream Labs OBS as the "streaming" software. I have actually never tried to use the Elgato software to stream with. But yeah thank you for your help. You've cleared up a ton of questions in my head.

No problem, hope you get everything working!

[Zarocus1337]

I hope so too! Now I've got to prep for my next live stream. Test to make sure everything works, yadda yadda yadda

[Sfekke]

8 hours ago, Zarocus1337 said:

I should've clarified what I use to stream with. I use Stream Labs OBS as the "streaming" software. I have actually never tried to use the Elgato software to stream with. But yeah thank you for your help. You've cleared up a ton of questions in my head.

If you use OBS to stream the H.264 encoder on the Elgato is disabled, I think for your usecase a secondary PC would be handy.

Keep in mind that using X264 CPU encoding is probably the best option with less bandwidth requirements, I've streamed full-time for six months myself and ended up sticking to X264 and using OBS NDI to make a cheapass's version of dualpc streaming

 

Offloading to a secondary PC has its downfalls, electricity cost, heat output once you start you'll get why the summer isn't fun for all lol, complexity.

But it gives a great boost in performance and reliability, if your main gaming rig shuts down the stream doesn't.

I'd advise to keep the streaming box as basic as possible to avoid any crashes, background tasks kept to a minimum.

[Zarocus1337]

1 hour ago, Sfekke said:

I've streamed full-time for six months myself

@Sfekke Do you mind if I ask what your channel name is? I'll check it out. For me it's not about the cost of more power. I make enough to run both my current rigs, but my FX-8370 is showing it's age. Especially when I decide to do any kind of editing. Also I want to have a second rig that I could take over to my friends places and either stream with them or host a stream at their place.

[svar]

hello
never ever use a captrue card to captrue the output of the GPU from the same computer the capture card is connected to, it does not work that way.
A capture card should only be used if you want to conenct a console to stream it from the pc (to add alerts, overlays and so in say OBS) or if you use a 2 pc setup where one is the gaming pc and the other is streaming/encoding pc.
But in the later situation, most I know uses the NDI plugin for OBS, as it lets you output OBS from one pc to another over a LAN cable