US Congress sneakily passes bill that allows police to gain access to online user data without warrants

[InertiaSelling]

8 hours ago, descendency said:

That said... this definitely does not protect non-US persons

Indeed it doesn't, but if I'm not mistaken, when it comes to citizens of the EU, the GDPR should offer some kind of protection, as it states that there has to be international agreements in order for the EU to regard the disclosure of personal data by data controllers to foreign administrative authorities as lawful. Also, as soon as the US law enforcement starts processing personal data from EU citizens, it arguably becomes a data controller by the terms of the regulation, and becomes subject to an obligation to obtain informed consent from the data subject. I have a class on personal data law this evening, so I'll bring this up and see if I missed something, but as far as I can tell, EU citizens should theoritically be protected against this encroachment on their privacy.

[Master Disaster]

Encryption, encryption, encryption.... Oh and did I mention encryption.

[Cole5]

I feel like this wont last long, The bill anyway, the mentality will

[DoctorWho1975]

1 hour ago, Cole5 said:

I feel like this wont last long, The bill anyway, the mentality will

Its already law

[Cole5]

43 minutes ago, DoctorWho1975 said:

Its already law

Sue City my name is meme lords

[jagdtigger]

16 hours ago, Razor02097 said:

in AES 256 bit encryption I trust... as long as I don't forget my password...

Sorry but nothing can beat local storage in this case...

[mark_cameron]

On 03/04/2018 at 9:58 PM, AresKrieger said:

I do if the part about seizing data on behalf of foreigners is never enacted, the other part technically needs a warrant if its in the US if it were data they acquired from foreign servers that likely circumnavigates any US based law as it the data would be given at the discretion of whatever country it resides in.

 

In short there the US constitution only applies on US soil so only the parts pertaining to US locations could be in violation.

 

Keep in mind my stance is still against it however it looks to be technically legal, the only caveat would be certain agreements made by a president might not be depending on the stipulations.

 

I'm not American but I'm pretty sure rights granted in the US constitution apply to people.

 

Privacy and legal rights apply regardless of territory where information is held. For example. US government cannot violate the constitution basing law enforcement agencies outside the US handling personal data, to then violate probable cause rights of citizens in the US. That would clearly been an attempt to subvert the US constitution.

 

Much like European privacy laws applying to people and their data anywhere in the world.

 

They're trying to push things with 'the cloud' but normally the legal system pushes back in the end.

[2FA]

13 minutes ago, mark_cameron said:

 

I'm not American but I'm pretty sure rights granted in the US constitution apply to people.

 

Privacy and legal rights apply regardless of territory where information is held. For example. US government cannot violate the constitution basing law enforcement agencies outside the US handling personal data, to then violate probable cause rights of citizens in the US. That would clearly been an attempt to subvert the US constitution.

 

Much like European privacy laws applying to people and their data anywhere in the world.

 

They're trying to push things with 'the cloud' but normally the legal system pushes back in the end.

Unless the US Constitution specifically states citizens, then the protections apply to everyone. Some clauses say citizen, some don't.

[mark_cameron]

On 03/04/2018 at 10:53 PM, descendency said:

This is false. It applies to all US citizens, organizations that constitute US Personhood, or any other such 'US Person.' The US government may not illegally search or seize personal property (including information) without a warrant, assuming that person is a US Person.

 

That said... this definitely does not protect non-US persons. Obviously, that will be highly contentious, especially for those that are not US Persons (which has a very interesting legal definition). 

Agree with this.

 

It's why the European Union has it's own laws preventing erosion of legal rights and personal data anywhere in the world.

 

The EU has been very forthright with the US about infringement of European citizens rights.

 

A new law is going in on 25th May 2018 on the issue.

 

Remember this is about governments using tech companies as information sources. Regulating how they can do this and when data transfers are and are not permissible

 

 

Quote

While the regulatory wheels often turn slowly in the U.S., there’s already a model for modern data privacy materializing in the European Union, in the form of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR).

 

This sweeping data privacy regulation goes into effect on May 25, 2018, and its implementation will be watched closely worldwide. As privacy concerns mount in the United States, the GDPR could very well serve as a model for best practices in data privacy going forward.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/311273
 

 

 

[AresKrieger]

13 minutes ago, 2FA said:

Unless the US Constitution specifically states citizens, then the protections apply to everyone. Some clauses say citizen, some don't.

The strong ties to the US argument pops up in a number court reasonings, specifically one about an lawsuit for a border patrol agent being sued for a wrongful death, under us law the circumstances amounted to no that person had no ties thus no rights in regards to the constitution

 

However obviously it only applies inside the US to non citizens due to sovereignty

 

28 minutes ago, mark_cameron said:

snip

I'm not interested in people as this law deals with stuff or more specifically information, technically it is not illegal for the US to acquire the info under the constitution regardless of circumstance it is illegal to use said info as evidence against them if they reside in the US or are a citizen, unless they are deemed an military/national security threat.

 

And there have been exceptions to the citizen rule while outside the US, mostly with detaining people associated with terrorists or communists.

[mark_cameron]

2 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

The strong ties to the US argument pops up in a number court reasonings, specifically one about an lawsuit for a border patrol agent being sued for a wrongful death, under us law the circumstances amounted to no that person had no ties thus no rights in regards to the constitution

 

However obviously it only applies inside the US to non citizens due to sovereignty

 

I'm not interested in people as this law deals with stuff or more specifically information, technically it is not illegal for the US to acquire the info under the constitution regardless of circumstance it is illegal to use said info as evidence against them if they reside in the US or are a citizen, unless they are deemed an military/national security threat.

 

And there have been exceptions to the citizen rule while outside the US, mostly with detaining people associated with terrorists or communists.

The interesting point will be when the likes of Facebook has the US law and agencies  demanding the data

 

Whilst the European law will prohibit the personal data being transferred.

 

This whole thing is about mass surveillance. Obtaining information without a warrant.

 

The US is legislating for it. The EU is regulating against it.

[AresKrieger]

3 minutes ago, mark_cameron said:

Whilst the European law will prohibit the personal data being transferred.

 

This whole thing is about mass surveillance. Obtaining information without a warrant.

 

The US is legislating for it. The EU is regulating against it.

Yeah but you can get thrown in jail for speech so pick your poison, regardless those laws are only strong if getting a warrant is difficult and in most countries it is not.

[Guest]

Seeing as FaceBook are stealing my data anyway I don't see why the police shouldn't have legal access. 

[2FA]

2 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Seeing as FaceBook are stealing my data anyway I don't see why the police shouldn't have legal access. 

You don't have to use Facebook, this doesn't give you choice in regards to police.

[Guest]

Just now, 2FA said:

You don't have to use Facebook, this doesn't give you choice in regards to police.

In this sense, I am using FaceBook as a placeholder for any online service. Even Gmail isn't really secure in terms you use a Google Account with it, which really rakes in the data. I found the option to see my Google Search history from my google account and it had stuff going way back. I didn't even know it saved them  

[2FA]

1 minute ago, RorzNZ said:

In this sense, I am using FaceBook as a placeholder for any online service. Even Gmail isn't really secure in terms you use a Google Account with it, which really rakes in the data. I found the option to see my Google Search history from my google account and it had stuff going way back. I didn't even know it saved them  

Not all online services collect the kind of data that advertising focused services do, and again optional service.

[Guest]

Just now, 2FA said:

Not all online services collect the kind of data that advertising focused services do, and again optional service.

A search engine isn't really optional these days when its built into just a about every browser, and usually Google or Yahoo by default. 

[2FA]

Just now, RorzNZ said:

A search engine isn't really optional these days when its built into just a about every browser, and usually Google or Yahoo by default. 

DuckDuckGo

[Guest]

1 minute ago, 2FA said:

DuckDuckGo

Its still just once service of many. You would have to be pretty ignorant to suggest that you can simply opt-out of the data gathering by big companies, especially as its proven their reach is beyond their own websites. Even Windows itself heaves up a large amount of data, so do your ISPs for that matter. Only way to 'opt-out' is to unplug your router. 

[2FA]

Just now, RorzNZ said:

Its still just once service of many. You would have to be pretty ignorant to suggest that you can simply opt-out of the data gathering by big companies, especially as its proven their reach is beyond their own websites. Even Windows itself heaves up a large amount of data, so do your ISPs for that matter. Only way to 'opt-out' is to unplug your router. 

Obviously there will be some data collected at some points but there are of course ways to mitigate data collection. I'm not going to go on and list every single way but the tradeoff here is between privacy and convenience. A little loss of convenience can go a long way.