Camera upgrade

[another random person]

I have regularly been reaching the limits of my current camera with regards to connectivity as well as performance with low light and fast moving subject photography. I have also noticed severe bottlenecks with the resolution available when taking photos of landscapes. 

 

I am currently using the Canon T6 with a Sigma 17-50mm as my primary go-to lens. 

I currently am looking at two options, the 80D or the 77D both fill my requirements of an upgrade unit and I quite liked using both equally. Of course, the 80D is a more premium model and therefore has some better features, although the 77D is newer and has features in other areas. I am currently tossing up between the two cameras with regards to which to buy. 

 

Yes, I am aware of the rumoured 90D to be released in early 2018, and that's fine because it will most likely take me over half a year to allocate money to save up for the camera and if the 90D is affordable and has the features I would like then I can reconsider.

 

If there are any other Canon crop sensor cameras that I didn't mention, my requirements are below:

1. Dual Pixel AF

2. 1080/60 Recording

3. Touchscreen

4. 24+ megapixels

5. Minimum native ISO of 12800

6. OVF min magnification of 0.7x

7. Integrated microphone port 

8. Fully articulated screen

9. Ability to change ISO in half or 1/3 stops

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[thekillergazebo]

I don’t many other camera that fit that very specific requirements, but I would think about going full frame. Full frame will give you better low light results. I know with Sony you can use your cell phone as a touch screen for the camera to focus and as a remote shutter. I use that on my a6300. 

[xQubeZx]

The 80D (or a 90D if that is to be released soon) is a solid camera and I would personally go with that one over a 77D for the better build quality and those small features. (As the price differnece is quite minor) 

 

If you want a step up in the APS-C line the next step is the 7D mark ii. Don’t know if you could find any of those used but there you will get the best AF and burst shooting and so on. 

 

Don’t know how many lenses you own either but a viable option to at least consider could be a used 5D mark iii depending on what lenses you have. (Will probably have about the same ISO capabilities as a 80D but also have dual SD cards, tough build, FF look (dof) and all these other small features. But if you are heavily invested in APS-C (AF-S) glass I would not go this way and rather go for a 7D mark ii or a 80D. 

 

You didn’t state any budget so this may be out of your range but thought I could at least present the options. And used is a good option. The used Canon market is so large and a lot is in great condition. Especially L-glass lenses for what I have seen. 

[another random person]

17 hours ago, thekillergazebo said:

I don’t many other camera that fit that very specific requirements, but I would think about going full frame. Full frame will give you better low light results. I know with Sony you can use your cell phone as a touch screen for the camera to focus and as a remote shutter. I use that on my a6300. 

I can't afford full frame especially the lens that are required for it. I would rather stay on APSC as I already have all the lens for it.

[another random person]

16 hours ago, xQubeZx said:

The 80D (or a 90D if that is to be released soon) is a solid camera and I would personally go with that one over a 77D for the better build quality and those small features. (As the price differnece is quite minor) 

 

If you want a step up in the APS-C line the next step is the 7D mark ii. Don’t know if you could find any of those used but there you will get the best AF and burst shooting and so on. 

 

Don’t know how many lenses you own either but a viable option to at least consider could be a used 5D mark iii depending on what lenses you have. (Will probably have about the same ISO capabilities as a 80D but also have dual SD cards, tough build, FF look (dof) and all these other small features. But if you are heavily invested in APS-C (AF-S) glass I would not go this way and rather go for a 7D mark ii or a 80D. 

 

You didn’t state any budget so this may be out of your range but thought I could at least present the options. And used is a good option. The used Canon market is so large and a lot is in great condition. Especially L-glass lenses for what I have seen. 

I tested out the 80D at a camera store today and it was really well built and the seemingly minuscule features turned out rather nice to have. Although with the 80D the Max iso is a half stop lower than the 77D. 

I am still tossing up if the environmental sealing and headphone port, as well as easier access to settings, is worth the +$400 pricetag as well as if the tradeoff of half a stop native ISO is excusable. 

I would if I could, although it is a bit too far out of my price range. But I have heard a lot of good feedback on the 7D Mk II. Well, I have invested a good $700 into APSC glass and don't have much left for other glass, especially not L glass. I would also prefer something new because of shutter life, warranty and etc. 

 

I would be taking the camera on a Ski trip during late Q3 2018 so I would like to acquire the camera before that date. Also, my rough budget give or take is around $1100 AUD. But I can go up to $1400 if highly recommended. 

 

My main concern is if I were to wait for the 90D, would it be released in time for my Ski trip? Some have theorised that it would be released in Q1/2 while other sources have estimated Q3. 

 

Another thing I noticed is that with the 80D the image remains pretty much useable up to ISO 16000, which is the maximum ISO although I haven't checked the 77D, it is claimed that it can reach an ISO of 25600 natively although I haven't been able to check the images myself. 

 

The used market is fairly large, in probably every country apart from Australia. 

 

 

[xQubeZx]

6 minutes ago, another random person said:

I tested out the 80D at a camera store today and it was really well built and the seemingly minuscule features turned out rather nice to have. Although with the 80D the Max iso is a half stop lower than the 77D. 

I am still tossing up if the environmental sealing and headphone port, as well as easier access to settings, is worth the +$400 pricetag as well as if the tradeoff of half a stop native ISO is excusable. 

I would if I could, although it is a bit too far out of my price range. But I have heard a lot of good feedback on the 7D Mk II. Well, I have invested a good $700 into APSC glass and don't have much left for other glass, especially not L glass. I would also prefer something new because of shutter life, warranty and etc. 

 

I would be taking the camera on a Ski trip during late Q3 2018 so I would like to acquire the camera before that date. Also, my rough budget give or take is around $1100 AUD. But I can go up to $1400 if highly recommended. 

 

My main concern is if I were to wait for the 90D, would it be released in time for my Ski trip? Some have theorised that it would be released in Q1/2 while other sources have estimated Q3. 

 

Another thing I noticed is that with the 80D the image remains pretty much useable up to ISO 16000, which is the maximum ISO although I haven't checked the 77D, it is claimed that it can reach an ISO of 25600 natively although I haven't been able to check the images myself. 

 

The used market is fairly large, in probably every country apart from Australia. 

 

 

Ignore max ISO numbers. They don’t tell you anything as they are unusable at their max iso. They will probably perform about equally so I would not stare on ISO alone. 

 

Just a few years ago a max iso of 1600 was insane and they got pretty sick shots so I wouldn’t worry. 

[another random person]

Just now, xQubeZx said:

Ignore max ISO numbers. They don’t tell you anything as they are unusable at their max iso. They will probably perform about equally so I would not stare on ISO alone. 

 

Just a few years ago a max iso of 1600 was insane and they got pretty sick shots so I wouldn’t worry. 

I often find myself in dark events trying to do event photography and I have managed to get very grainy but useable iso 6400 images with 12800 being plain un-useable on my current camera. Although I have seen many low light photos utilise sensitivities in excess of 12800. 

 

Although I do find myself leaning more towards the 80D due to the weatherproofing and greater flexibility. (Larger sensor too) But I'm unsure if I should wait for the pre 90D price drop or just buy when I have the money?

[cc143]

Go with the 77d (or even 800d if you don't need the top lcd and back focus button) , it has a newer processor and the same or slightly redesigned sensor, both of which contribute towards that higher iso capability, as well as less noise and better detail recovery in post at lower isos. The only tradeoffs would be the 80ds significantly larger battery and headphone port for audio monitoring, the importance of which depends on your own use and needs. I think you misstated that the 80d has a larger sensor, which is not correct, all of Canon's dslr and mirrorless Cameras have an APS-C (22.2x14.8mm) or FF (36x24mm) sensor, the 80d, 700/750/800d, 77d, 7d etc. all use the same size sensor, in fact the actual sensor might even be the same in cameras released in the same cycle. 

 

I'd stay away from the 7dmkii due to the older sensor and processors, inferior video capabilities, lack of DPAF etc. The mk3 should be released soon, which will of course improve on all of that but until then, barring some exceptional circumstances, I'd find it hard to recommend a 7dmk2 right now. 

 

Also, you don't need FF, a 5dmk3 (I have and love it), but, the fact that it is almost 6 years old at this point is starting to show, especially videowise, is way more expensive than the 77d. Sony's in video AF is nowhere near as good as dpaf, both in attaining and maintaining focus, even using the app as pointed out, dpaf will acquire focus in a much smoother, cinematic way. Also glass is ridiculously expensive, even considering its for FF. 

[another random person]

On 12/12/2017 at 7:12 PM, cc143 said:

Go with the 77d (or even 800d if you don't need the top lcd and back focus button) , it has a newer processor and the same or slightly redesigned sensor, both of which contribute towards that higher iso capability, as well as less noise and better detail recovery in post at lower isos. The only tradeoffs would be the 80ds significantly larger battery and headphone port for audio monitoring, the importance of which depends on your own use and needs. I think you misstated that the 80d has a larger sensor, which is not correct, all of Canon's dslr and mirrorless Cameras have an APS-C (22.2x14.8mm) or FF (36x24mm) sensor, the 80d, 700/750/800d, 77d, 7d etc. all use the same size sensor, in fact the actual sensor might even be the same in cameras released in the same cycle. 

 

I'd stay away from the 7dmkii due to the older sensor and processors, inferior video capabilities, lack of DPAF etc. The mk3 should be released soon, which will of course improve on all of that but until then, barring some exceptional circumstances, I'd find it hard to recommend a 7dmk2 right now. 

 

Also, you don't need FF, a 5dmk3 (I have and love it), but, the fact that it is almost 6 years old at this point is starting to show, especially videowise, is way more expensive than the 77d. Sony's in video AF is nowhere near as good as dpaf, both in attaining and maintaining focus, even using the app as pointed out, dpaf will acquire focus in a much smoother, cinematic way. Also glass is ridiculously expensive, even considering its for FF. 

After testing both cameras I found that the top LCD is a really useful tool. I'm fairly sure that the 80D can last 1.5x longer than the 77D with regards to battery life, which for the 77D would mean that I would have to carry more than one battery to last me the day, although realistically thinking I doubt that the difference is that major. I typically do B-roll and timelapse films so the headphone port wouldn't be used for the majority of the time anyways although, I am moving into the standard indie film industry so it would become a nice to have sooner or later. 

 

The 80D camera has a slightly larger sensor according to multiple sources (22.5 x 15 mm) (https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-80d-review/2) compared to the (22.3mm x 14.9mm) (http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-77d/canon-77dA.HTM) of the 77D. 

Probably too insignificant to make a difference. 

 

The 7D mkII is considerably out of my budget so I have to stay away and plus I'd heard that is isn't worth the money paid for it. 

 

I'll leave FF for if my photography takes off but considering right now it seems to be miles out of my price range as well as the fact that I'd find it difficult to utilise it fully. (One bit of L glass or sigma ART are worth more than all my photographic equipment right now.)

 

A few major points running for the 80D are the fact that it is weather sealed and I often find myself shooting in the rain and will soon be shooting in the snow. Although my lens isn't weatherproofed I can always bag it and use elastic bands but to bag a camera is significantly harder. A few others are the battery and headphone jack, both are very useful and as a person who carries 4 batteries for my current T6 less to carry when travelling is always a welcome thought. Especially during timelapses, I wouldn't want for the battery to die halfway through a sequence of images. 

 

I'm currently still puzzled as to which camera would work the best considering that I rarely use the high end of the ISO and my most commonly used would be around 100-400. 

[cc143]

12 hours ago, another random person said:

 

As I said, if the features of the 80d you mention are important to you, so much co that a camera lacking them would be detrimental to your workflow, I would hold off for another 6 months or so. The 90d is built up to be a great camera and the processor and sensor changes will be significant. 

 

The issue isn't whether you use higher ISOs per se, almost no one does, the issue is that even at a base 100 or 200 ISO (depending on your camera) a better processor gives you better DR (when you increase exposure or Shadows in LR) and has an effect on the way noise is rendered, not just the amount of noise in the frame. 

 

As I said, I consider a FF camera and the 7dmk2 to be outside of the scope of what you need and can afford. 

[another random person]

15 hours ago, cc143 said:

As I said, if the features of the 80d you mention are important to you, so much co that a camera lacking them would be detrimental to your workflow, I would hold off for another 6 months or so. The 90d is built up to be a great camera and the processor and sensor changes will be significant. 

 

The issue isn't whether you use higher ISOs per se, almost no one does, the issue is that even at a base 100 or 200 ISO (depending on your camera) a better processor gives you better DR (when you increase exposure or Shadows in LR) and has an effect on the way noise is rendered, not just the amount of noise in the frame. 

 

As I said, I consider a FF camera and the 7dmk2 to be outside of the scope of what you need and can afford. 

Yes, that is the exact concern I have, whether to get a camera with a better processor or to get one with features I would regularly utilise. 

I'm tossing up whether to wait or to just buy ASAP, as the camera will see the most use during Q3 of next year and I wouldn't want to wait till late Q2 to realise that the 90D is out of my price range. But I want a camera which would remain relevant for a long period of time.