Networking Suggestion?

[KangUsapEmenq]

Hello! Here now, I'm planning for a little networking things for the future that I hope it's gonna happen.

 

Here's the plan:

Spoiler

 

Details here.

Spoiler

Router 1: Provided by the ISP, a standard GPON FTTH wireless router modem. It will be a Huawei HG8425, perhaps. (As most of the modems provided by the ISP at my place is that modem)

 

Router 2: Main router. Perhaps will be the RB750GR3 from Mikrotik. Connects to the all network I'll make later, bandwidth management, queue things and etc. (well, I can't tell too much actually the "scientific" name is lol)

 

Another suggestions here will be appreciated, as it's almostly 50 (or more) devices will connect to the all of the networks, and I'm afraid the router I choose wouldn't be sufficient. But preferring more at Mikrotik here because a lot of tutorials that I can learn at.

 

Little thing: does it works if I manage to connect to Game Cafe Network from Home Private Network without the cafe network won't do the same?

 

Now here's a little detail for the bandwidth:

Spoiler

- 60 - 70 Mbps-ish to the Game Cafe Network. Planned 30 PCs, with 2 or 3 Mbps per PC, or more, or less. Have any suggestion here? Because here is the most confusing thing. (standard online game; Dota 2, CSGO, GTA Online perhaps)

 

- 20 Mbps-ish for Home Private Network. Nah, 2,5 MB/s is more than enough for all of us anyway.

 

- 5 Mbps for the free wi-fi. Planned about only 100 KB/s for every device (maybe). So I don't need too many bandwidths here.

 

Spare bandwidths? Have no idea what to do with rest of them.

 

Now, to Game Cafe Network first.

Spoiler

 

Switches, 1.0 to 1.3: Planned to have this TP-Link TL-SG1016D for all of the switch I'm gonna use. Will connect all of these switch directly with Cat 6 cables. Or perhaps I should use one of the smart/managed switches?

 

Diskless Server: that's 30 PC will connect to this server. Onboard gigabit and two of these maybe will be sufficient. (or it's just overkill?)

 

Billing Computer and... All 30 PCs: Onboard gigabit. That's it.

 

 

Home Private Network:

Spoiler

Wireless Router 1: now this one is albeit confusing. I got a laptop and a PC that needs gigabit connection between them, for transferring files (instead using thumb drives lol). So I need a gigabit router, yeah. I think this TP-Link TL-WR1043ND would be nice but.. Suggestions would be nice either.

 

Reverse Proxy Server: I will use an old computer of mine for this. This proxy should connect to all three networks, as bandwidth here is albeit expensive, and with these Fair Usage Policies either.. Sucks.

 

What it will cache? Most things. Especially online game updates (you know, 100 MB-ish Dota 2 daily update). Planned to have 500 GB HDD too.

 

Free Wi-fi: This 150 Mbps Wireless Router (or it's should be a access point because I gotta use settings from the main router?) would be enough, won't password protected either. I'll limit the bandwidth.

Nah, what you guys think about this? Good enough or needs some changes?

 

And sorry for my bad english, not my native language lol

[gabe927]

Couple of questions/comments:

1. Are you planning to use any VLANs in this network, or are all of the subnets just going to be separated by the different ports on the router?

2. What is the diskless server actually serving to the PCs?

3. If you are going to have multiple NICs on the server, then you will need a managed switch that supports LACP teaming.  

4. I don't know how well it would work location wise, but you may want to look at getting a Ubiquiti access point.  You can add up to 4 SSIDs all on different VLANs, and you can set up an access portal for you guest wifi that could require something like an email address to get on the free wifi.

 

Looks cool otherwise.

[gabe927]

Other thing:  You may want to look at using pfsense as your router.  There are plenty of tutorials for it.  Instead of using the old computer as just a proxy, you can install pfsense on it and install the proxy server package (plus many other packages for managing your network).  I personally use it in my home and I love it.

[KangUsapEmenq]

3 hours ago, gabe927 said:

Couple of questions/comments:

1. Are you planning to use any VLANs in this network, or are all of the subnets just going to be separated by the different ports on the router?

2. What is the diskless server actually serving to the PCs?

3. If you are going to have multiple NICs on the server, then you will need a managed switch that supports LACP teaming.  

4. I don't know how well it would work location wise, but you may want to look at getting a Ubiquiti access point.  You can add up to 4 SSIDs all on different VLANs, and you can set up an access portal for you guest wifi that could require something like an email address to get on the free wifi.

 

Looks cool otherwise.

1. Well honestly I'm albeit confused about that.

 

"Little thing: does it works if I manage to connect to Game Cafe Network from Home Private Network without the cafe network won't do the same?"

I mean, I can remote access the server or the PC from my home private network, but from the game cafe network it won't access anything to inside the house. Is it considered as VLAN?

 

2. CCBoot (maybe, or another diskless boot perhaps). And all of the games stored inside here, with 2x 500 GB on RAID0. 

 

3. Ah, yes. I just realized that. One of the switch (Switch 1.0) can be this one then.

But, I ever saw a internet cafe with all unmanaged switch and 3 of the NICs I stated before, and it seem works flawlessly. I don't know, based on this maybe, it doesn't state anything about LACP protocol.

What makes me actually confused is if some people said 1 NIC is already enough (did few survey from another forum on my country) and even without teaming it works without problems too, but what I'm thinking is: 125 MB/s for 30 PCs?

 

4. Well, saw few products from Ubiquiti website, seems it's albeit overkill for me. As most of the devices still on N, barely saw people using laptops/phone that supports AC. 

 

Or, if Ubiquiti is good for me, what product would you recommend? 2.4 GHz is enough anyway. And for the home network will need these switching gigabit ports on the router. For the free wifi one, maybe it would just act like a access point.

 

And thanks by the way!

 

3 hours ago, gabe927 said:

Other thing:  You may want to look at using pfsense as your router.  There are plenty of tutorials for it.  Instead of using the old computer as just a proxy, you can install pfsense on it and install the proxy server package (plus many other packages for managing your network).  I personally use it in my home and I love it.

My old computer doesn't have enough PCI (yeah, not PCIe) slots though for the routing needs..

And the onboard slot is FE, which insufficient for proxy.

 

But maybe I'll look forward for it by making a cheap PC for this if it's worth it

[KangUsapEmenq]

Oh, anyway. Just realized it either. Inside Game Cafe Network, I planned to have all 30 PC with 1.0.0.1 until 30, and 1.0.0.251 for the router port. 252 on the server and 253 on billing. Will this actually work? I tested some on Cisco Packet Tracer and it seems good, but not in reality.

[Lurick]

4 hours ago, dhannemon13 said:

Oh, anyway. Just realized it either. Inside Game Cafe Network, I planned to have all 30 PC with 1.0.0.1 until 30, and 1.0.0.251 for the router port. 252 on the server and 253 on billing. Will this actually work? I tested some on Cisco Packet Tracer and it seems good, but not in reality.

Separate them with VLANs for some basic security and management purposes.

PC 1 - 10 on Vlan A

PC 11 - 20 on Vlan B

PC 21 - 30 on Vlan C

Billing, servers, etc. on Vlan D

Wifi on Vlan E

Home Network on Vlan F

 

For IP addressing:

Vlan A - 10.0.0.0/28

Vlan B - 10.0.0.16/28

Vlan C - 10.0.0.32/28

Vlan D - 10.0.0.48/28

Vlan E - 10.0.1.0/24

Vlan F - 10.0.2.0/24

 

Setup some ACLs:

1) Prevent WiFi from talking to Vlan A through D and Vlan F

2) Prevent Vlan A thorugh C along with Vlan E talking to Vlan F

3) Limit what hosts can talk to the billing server

[Falconevo]

This can all be done with 1 router and the use of wireless AP's

 

It doesn't need all these devices attached and routing and double NAT'ing all over the place.  Games like DOTA don't like a double-nat scenario as it can cause problems between the client connecting.

 

Get yourself a decent PC with a 4 Port Intel network card and you can do all this with pfSense with ease.

Traffic Shaping

Reverse Proxy (SQUID)

Capture Portal for free Wifi users

Real time graphing of interfaces

 

A note about CCBoot, you will have an incredibly bad time using SATA based disks in RAID0 for a shared storage platform, you WILL require SSD's here and the use of LACP bonded ports to get enough bandwidth for games to update and random IO access to take place.  I have built systems on CCBoot, Citrix Provisioning services etc and I can tell you that '110-115MB/s' sequential throughput from SATA drives is not going to cut it when multiple IO access is present.  Tip from me, use a PCIe NVMe SSD or if you can't afford it use SSD's without RAID (AHCI mode) and spread the images across multiple disks for bettern IO, then add LACP bond 4x 1Gbit ports to a switch that supports LACP to give a 4Gb/s connection to the host running CCBoot or what ever alternative you use.  Having used CCBoot in the past, it isn't very good.

Here is what I would propose

Traffic shaping can then be done on a per interface basis within pfSense which is pretty easy.

 

[KangUsapEmenq]

4 hours ago, Lurick said:

Separate them with VLANs for some basic security and management purposes.

PC 1 - 10 on Vlan A

PC 11 - 20 on Vlan B

PC 21 - 30 on Vlan C

Billing, servers, etc. on Vlan D

Wifi on Vlan E

Home Network on Vlan F

 

For IP addressing:

Vlan A - 10.0.0.0/28

Vlan B - 10.0.0.16/28

Vlan C - 10.0.0.32/28

Vlan D - 10.0.0.48/28

Vlan E - 10.0.1.0/24

Vlan F - 10.0.2.0/24

 

Setup some ACLs:

1) Prevent WiFi from talking to Vlan A through D and Vlan F

2) Prevent Vlan A thorugh C along with Vlan E talking to Vlan F

3) Limit what hosts can talk to the billing server

Oh, now I got what VLAN actually means. Thanks!

 

4 hours ago, Falconevo said:

This can all be done with 1 router and the use of wireless AP's

 

It doesn't need all these devices attached and routing and double NAT'ing all over the place.  Games like DOTA don't like a double-nat scenario as it can cause problems between the client connecting.

 

Get yourself a decent PC with a 4 Port Intel network card and you can do all this with pfSense with ease.

Traffic Shaping

Reverse Proxy (SQUID)

Capture Portal for free Wifi users

Real time graphing of interfaces

 

A note about CCBoot, you will have an incredibly bad time using SATA based disks in RAID0 for a shared storage platform, you WILL require SSD's here and the use of LACP bonded ports to get enough bandwidth for games to update and random IO access to take place.  I have built systems on CCBoot, Citrix Provisioning services etc and I can tell you that '110-115MB/s' sequential throughput from SATA drives is not going to cut it when multiple IO access is present.  Tip from me, use a PCIe NVMe SSD or if you can't afford it use SSD's without RAID (AHCI mode) and spread the images across multiple disks for better IO, then add LACP bond 4x 1Gbit ports to a switch that supports LACP to give a 4Gb/s connection to the host running CCBoot or what ever alternative you use.  Having used CCBoot in the past, it isn't very good.

Here is what I would propose

Traffic shaping can then be done on a per interface basis within pfSense which is pretty easy.

 

Just did a survey for the Intel 4 port NICs on few local website that I usually visit for price comparisons, it's even more expensive than the PC itself lol. (around US$ 350 to 420-ish)

I'll look forward for Amazon or ebay then. And, which one of these Intel NIC you would recommend?

 

Nah, I planned to use SSDs for the boot image disk (250GB Samsung 850 evo) and two of them for the writeback (120GB Samsung 850 evo, is this enough by the way?). I'll use the RAID0 (maybe a pair of Seagate Barracuda or WD Blue) just for game disk, which stated here, it is already enough.

 

And for the switch, yeah on Switch 1.0 I'll use this managed switch one.

But the other three switches don't need the managed ones, right?

 

"Having used CCBoot in the past, it isn't very good."

Would you share why it isn't very good?

 

@Falconevo

[gabe927]

14 minutes ago, dhannemon13 said:

I'll look forward for Amazon or ebay then. And, which one of these Intel NIC you would recommend?

Intel Pro 1000, such as this one.

[KangUsapEmenq]

5 minutes ago, gabe927 said:

Intel Pro 1000, such as this one.

Thanks! But somewhat it may not ship to Indonesia, tho. Will looking for alternatives.

[KangUsapEmenq]

Anyway, anyone here have a success with pfSense for caching Steam downloads? And yeah caching everything else either. 

pfSense looks more interesting than Mikrotik though

 

Edit: just made a little spec for the router + proxy. Too overkill or it doesn't?

Spoiler

 

[Falconevo]

4 hours ago, dhannemon13 said:

Oh, now I got what VLAN actually means. Thanks!

 

Just did a survey for the Intel 4 port NICs on few local website that I usually visit for price comparisons, it's even more expensive than the PC itself lol. (around US$ 350 to 420-ish)

I'll look forward for Amazon or ebay then. And, which one of these Intel NIC you would recommend?

 

Nah, I planned to use SSDs for the boot image disk (250GB Samsung 850 evo) and two of them for the writeback (120GB Samsung 850 evo, is this enough by the way?). I'll use the RAID0 (maybe a pair of Seagate Barracuda or WD Blue) just for game disk, which stated here, it is already enough.

 

And for the switch, yeah on Switch 1.0 I'll use this managed switch one.

But the other three switches don't need the managed ones, right?

 

"Having used CCBoot in the past, it isn't very good."

Would you share why it isn't very good?

 

@Falconevo

Most of my work these days is with enterprise grade hardware and software, having used technologies such as Citrix Provisioning (although Windows only these days) CCBoot just does not cut it for me as better image management etc exists.  It would depend on what operating systems you are planning to use and how much of a budget you have for licensing however.

 

If you want to use write back for the SSD to work as a layer 2 cache, I wouldn't recommend an evo at all as they just don't last long enough.  Having ordered around 60,000+ of these units and I can tell you with absolute confidence that they are not suitable for heavy write environments.  If you can swap it for at minimum a Pro drive instead, better yet if you can use an Intel DC3600/3700 series it will pay for itself in endurance.

 

Also I would look at not using any RAID on the SSD as this will remove TRIM support which on consumer drives is needed to keep the drive in tip top condition.  Heavy writes kill SSD's quickly, CCBoot using an SSD as layer2 will destroy itself within a quick time frame.  

Take in to account game update etc will obliterate everyone's disk IO performance.

Intel NIC's I would look for the following;  Intel Pro 1000 PT (PCI-E version)

Other 3 switches can be unmanaged, just the LACP enabled switch should be managed  The environment I proposed does not utilise VLANs but instead separates the network areas by the individual network port on the pfSense router.  This will allow you to configure communication between areas of the network should you require management in to the servers from your home network etc etc.

Happy to provide you with assistance, I don't personally think CCBoot is the best out there however it's just the first that people use with a quick Google search.

[KangUsapEmenq]

46 minutes ago, Falconevo said:

Also I would look at not using any RAID on the SSD

I don't have any plans to do RAID on the SSDs. Just the 500 GB HDDs.

And yeah for SSDs maybe I'll rethink about it again if I could switch for Intel/Samsung Pro (only for the writeback though)..

46 minutes ago, Falconevo said:

I don't personally think CCBoot is the best out there

Well, yeah. It's annual US$ 10 per PC already made me feel uncomfortable tho.. There's a free diskless booting software here (Indonesian site) and it's actually look the same with CCBoot, but I haven't find yet if it will support LAN teaming or it won't. Yeah, I'm thinking about making my budget as small as possible either. Or perhaps, can you recommend a software for this purpose? @Falconevo (it's fine if it's paid tho, as long as it's worth it)

 

A lot of internet cafe here using this CyberIndo (and I ever played on these places too) and seems no problem at all (it's around 50-ish PCs and I have no idea if the server (and it's only one or two server as I saw, have no idea if both for diskless or one of them as proxy) using LAN teaming or not at all, as I can't see it).

 

I'll think about the routing connections later. Yet this diskless thing and LAN teaming what screws my mind now.

 

And thanks a lot for the details either, busted out my curiosity for a lot, I can't even sleep thinking about this 

[CFstorm]

On 7/31/2017 at 8:56 PM, gabe927 said:

Couple of questions/comments:

1. Are you planning to use any VLANs in this network, or are all of the subnets just going to be separated by the different ports on the router?

2. What is the diskless server actually serving to the PCs?

3. If you are going to have multiple NICs on the server, then you will need a managed switch that supports LACP teaming.  

4. I don't know how well it would work location wise, but you may want to look at getting a Ubiquiti access point.  You can add up to 4 SSIDs all on different VLANs, and you can set up an access portal for you guest wifi that could require something like an email address to get on the free wifi.

 

Looks cool otherwise.

 

On 7/31/2017 at 8:01 PM, dhannemon13 said:

Hello! Here now, I'm planning for a little networking things for the future that I hope it's gonna happen.

 

Here's the plan:

  Hide contents

 

Details here.

  Hide contents

Router 1: Provided by the ISP, a standard GPON FTTH wireless router modem. It will be a Huawei HG8425, perhaps. (As most of the modems provided by the ISP at my place is that modem)

 

Router 2: Main router. Perhaps will be the RB750GR3 from Mikrotik. Connects to the all network I'll make later, bandwidth management, queue things and etc. (well, I can't tell too much actually the "scientific" name is lol)

 

Another suggestions here will be appreciated, as it's almostly 50 (or more) devices will connect to the all of the networks, and I'm afraid the router I choose wouldn't be sufficient. But preferring more at Mikrotik here because a lot of tutorials that I can learn at.

 

Little thing: does it works if I manage to connect to Game Cafe Network from Home Private Network without the cafe network won't do the same?

 

Now here's a little detail for the bandwidth:

  Hide contents

- 60 - 70 Mbps-ish to the Game Cafe Network. Planned 30 PCs, with 2 or 3 Mbps per PC, or more, or less. Have any suggestion here? Because here is the most confusing thing. (standard online game; Dota 2, CSGO, GTA Online perhaps)

 

- 20 Mbps-ish for Home Private Network. Nah, 2,5 MB/s is more than enough for all of us anyway.

 

- 5 Mbps for the free wi-fi. Planned about only 100 KB/s for every device (maybe). So I don't need too many bandwidths here.

 

Spare bandwidths? Have no idea what to do with rest of them.

 

Now, to Game Cafe Network first.

  Hide contents

 

Switches, 1.0 to 1.3: Planned to have this TP-Link TL-SG1016D for all of the switch I'm gonna use. Will connect all of these switch directly with Cat 6 cables. Or perhaps I should use one of the smart/managed switches?

 

Diskless Server: that's 30 PC will connect to this server. Onboard gigabit and two of these maybe will be sufficient. (or it's just overkill?)

 

Billing Computer and... All 30 PCs: Onboard gigabit. That's it.

 

 

Home Private Network:

  Hide contents

Wireless Router 1: now this one is albeit confusing. I got a laptop and a PC that needs gigabit connection between them, for transferring files (instead using thumb drives lol). So I need a gigabit router, yeah. I think this TP-Link TL-WR1043ND would be nice but.. Suggestions would be nice either.

 

Reverse Proxy Server: I will use an old computer of mine for this. This proxy should connect to all three networks, as bandwidth here is albeit expensive, and with these Fair Usage Policies either.. Sucks.

 

What it will cache? Most things. Especially online game updates (you know, 100 MB-ish Dota 2 daily update). Planned to have 500 GB HDD too.

 

Free Wi-fi: This 150 Mbps Wireless Router (or it's should be a access point because I gotta use settings from the main router?) would be enough, won't password protected either. I'll limit the bandwidth.

Nah, what you guys think about this? Good enough or needs some changes?

 

And sorry for my bad english, not my native language lol

Here's what I would do, 

 

 

i would start by buying a meraki 48 port gigabit Poe switch and separate the tech caffe into a Vlan, if you don't know what a VLAN is, it's just a "Virtual LAN" . This would make it so the tech caffe would be transparent to your home and vice versa. Your current setup seems too complicated but good ideas.