Air Cooler to AIO

[PhysicalVocalist]

Hi everyone, first time poster here looking for some input from anyone who might have person experience with AIO cpu coolers.  When I first finished my build, I had decided to go for the biggest air cooler I knew could fit in my case, a thermalright Macho Rev 2, and while I am very happy with the performance I am starting to regret the amount of space it takes up in my case.  I've been recently looking into switching to a closed loop liquid cooler instead, either a 240 or 280mm, but I'm not sure what would be best for me.  I was originally planning on going for a Deepcool Captain 240 since the red/black color scheme matches my build and lets be honest that waterblock is sick, but I read several reviews saying that it leaked on users after around 2 months on average.  

Anyone had experience with one?  I'd appreciate your thoughts.  

More generally though, how many of you out there have AIO liquid coolers that are outside the typical waterblock/pump design (products like the Corsair H100 and other similar looking ones) that you've been happy with?  I've spent most of my build on function over form so I think it's time for me to begin balancing that out a bit and working on aesthetic.  

[Moress]

Check out the Kraken X62. You'll pay a premium for it but its well made and very good looking

[PhysicalVocalist]

That's certainly an option, I do like the RGB option, but apart from that it doesn't seem to have much going for it visually.  Not to mention I'd want to get better looking fans.  But still, thanks for the suggestion.  I'm still waiting on tax returns so depending on how the rest of my budget looks for the month I would consider going for one.

[thenastyjbenny]

Just buy a corsair H115i or something. Super reliable stuff.

[PhysicalVocalist]

One I was considering was the ID-COOLING Frostflow 240 because I liked the little light ring on the waterblock.  But I could effectively copy that with a Kraken, plus I'd get the extra benefit of a 280 rad...

[GrantW]

Thermaltake does a closed 'loop' cooler with RGB 'ring' around the fans on the rad. But it is a 240mm radiator all depends on Aesthetics. 

 

When it comes to Water cooling, you have got to go with a 'good' brand. I do not know about others but I have never heard of ID Cooling. Do you know why people go with bigger radiators by the way? ( I know, asking you it )

[stratege1401]

just remember something about AIO. The temp cycle is different from an air cooled system.

 

Idle temps when system start will be lower than air cooled system: normal.

Normal temps will "seems" to be lower than air cooled system: normal too. But only for a time. The temps will take up to 30 mns to stabilize. 

Then, after the system goes back to idle, the temps level will NOT decrease immediately. It will take time to go back to the initial idle temp.

 

Why this ??  PHYSICS !!!

 

The specific heat capacity is the amount of heat required to raise the temperature of a unit of mass of a given substance by one degree. I wont give to much calculus here, but most of the air cooled system are made in copper, and of course, AIO system are filled with some kind of alcohol-water mix. To make it short, 

Copper is able to absorb 0.4 Joules of heat energy,  when water is around 4.2 joules.

This means the temp cycle for cooper is fast !!! And slow for the water ... 

 

At full charge, assuming the pump works correctly the amount of heat exchange will be almost the same as air cooled system. The temp delta is not so important. In order to have a real difference, radiator needs to be large !!! The more, the better !!! That's why actually, you see 280 radiator replacing 240 radiator in high ends AIO systems. 

 

 

 

[PhysicalVocalist]

Oh yeah, bigger radiator means higher surface area to extract heat from.  I may be a pc building noob but my BA in Physics is comfortably under my belt lol.  

 

[atomicus]

22 minutes ago, stratege1401 said:

just remember something about AIO. The temp cycle is different from an air cooled system.

 

Idle temps when system start will be lower than air cooled system: normal.

Normal temps will "seems" to be lower than air cooled system: normal too. But only for a time. The temps will take up to 30 mns to stabilize. 

Then, after the system goes back to idle, the temps level will NOT decrease immediately. It will take time to go back to the initial idle temp.

 

Why this ??  PHYSICS !!!

 

The specific heat capacity is the amount of heat required to raise the temperature of a unit of mass of a given substance by one degree. I wont give to much calculus here, but most of the air cooled system are made in copper, and of course, AIO system are filled with some kind of alcohol-water mix. To make it short, 

Copper is able to absorb 0.4 Joules of heat energy,  when water is around 4.2 joules.

This means the temp cycle for cooper is fast !!! And slow for the water ... 

 

At full charge, assuming the pump works correctly the amount of heat exchange will be almost the same as air cooled system. The temp delta is not so important. In order to have a real difference, radiator needs to be large !!! The more, the better !!! That's why actually, you see 280 radiator replacing 240 radiator in high ends AIO systems. 

 

 

 

 

Bill Nye would be proud lol. The science is sound, but just look at the stats... AIOs really don't perform that much better than top end air coolers such as the Noctua D15 or Dark Rock Pro 3, even the 280mm ones. There will be a scientific reason for this also of course, but people do like to hang their hat on the fancy 'liquid cooling' science stuff, especially because it does sound 'cool' and it's very easy to make an AIO appear as though it's the superior cooling solution (manufacturers know this all to well, which is why they like to sell them), and it's understandable... a hunk of metal vs liquid, pumps and magic science! WOW! GIMME!! Very easy to see how people are suckered in. The performance figures really are quite revealing however. Not to mention noise levels also, what with the pump factored in to that equation.

[stratege1401]

Yes, AIO are not the top end for water cooling principally due to:

- low rpm for the pump.

- very short water (liquid) circuit.

- small amount of liquid. ( the more the better )

 

A real water-cooled system is around more than a liter of liquid ... an AIO is more like 40Cl...

[PhysicalVocalist]

Just now, atomicus said:

 

Bill Nye would be proud lol. The science is sound, but just look at the stats... AIOs really don't perform that much better than top end air coolers such as the Noctua D15 or Dark Rock Pro 3, even the 280mm ones. There will be a scientific reason for this also of course, but people do like to hang their hat on this whole 'liquid' thing, and it's very easy to make an AIO sound like it's the better option (manufacturers know this all to well, which is why they like to sell them), but the performance figures really are quite revealing. Not to mention noise levels also, what with the pump factored in to that equation.

While I wouldn't expect to get much better results from one of these 280mm options, because good lord the Macho X2 is enormous, I'm mainly looking into them for the sake of freeing up some space in my case.  Even just adding fans to the back of the system is a pain with that big beast in the middle.  I certainly wouldn't want a cooler that would do worse though, I'm not willing to sacrifice performance for aesthetics.  As for sound, I'll be honest but it doesn't bother me.  As it sits now, my system seems mostly silent to me apart from the rare times my gpu fans spin up to 50% or higher.  A little extra noise from a pump would not be an issue.

[atomicus]

Just now, stratege1401 said:

Yes, AIO are not the top end for water cooling principally due to:

- low rpm for the pump.

- very short water (liquid) circuit.

- small amount of liquid. ( the more the better )

 

A real water-cooled system is around more than a liter of liquid ... an AIO is more like 40Cl...

 

Oh god, no, please don't get me started on AIOs vs proper watercooling lol! It's a complete joke than some people say they are 'watercooling' when they've just slapped an AIO on their CPU. Makes me cringe. No less so than anyone putting a spoiler on their car and saying they've got a race car lol!

[PhysicalVocalist]

Just now, atomicus said:

 

Oh god, no, please don't get me started on AIOs vs proper watercooling lol! It's a complete joke than some people say they are 'watercooling' when they've just slapped an AIO on their CPU. Makes me cringe. No less so than anyone putting a spoiler on their car and saying they've got a race car lol!

pffft, yeah I'm nowhere near ready to make a custom loop; nor do I have any need for one.  

[atomicus]

32 minutes ago, PhysicalVocalist said:

pffft, yeah I'm nowhere near ready to make a custom loop; nor do I have any need for one.  

 

No, I actually don't think anyone NEEDS custom loop watercooling. I find it hard to justify the amount I spend on my builds, and from a performance/price perspective, it's pretty atrocious value haha, but I see it as a hobby and I enjoy doing it. I must say though, it does spoil you somewhat when it comes to temps and noise levels... I couldn't go back to a non-WC PC now lol!