Issues Bleeding My Loop Properly

[Wynter]

Hey

 

I asked about recommendations for my loop several months ago and ended up with following after an upgrade from CPU only to CPU/GPU:

 

• Laing DDC-pump 12V DDC-1T with Phobya Laing DDC Pump Top - Brass - black matt Edition
• Alphacool Repack Single Bayres 5,25" - Rev. 2
• Alphacool NexXxoS XP³ Light - Acetal - Intel/AMD
• Alphacool NexXxoS UT60 Full Copper 360mm
• Alphacool NexXxoS UT60 Full Copper 240mm
• Phobya TPC 4x Fan- or Pump-Controller 30Watt each Channel - Single Bay 5,25"
• Watercool Heatkiller GPU-X³ GTX 680 "Hole Edition" Ni-Bl + Backplate
• Bitspower thermo sensor G1/4
• 16/10 -- 3/5 - 3/8 Aquatuning fittings
• 16/10 -- 3/5 - 3/8 Masterkleer tubing

Cooler Master 840 case

360er rad up top

connected to the bay reservoir

going down to the pump on a Shoggy V2 underneath

going over to the CPU block

going down to the GPU block

going over to the 240er rad

going up into the 360er rad.

 

The pump's throttled via fan controller to ~2800rpm.

I've attached an angle and a valve to the 360 rad bleed port at the back of the case.

 

The bit between the GPU and the 240 rad near the drive cage is always empty/full of air when I turn the system off.

I've tilted and shaken the case to get the air up, either into the reservoir or the upper radiator.

 

I've also had the system running with both that valve and the reservoir open for 12+ hours at some point.

The air just does not seem to want to escape.

 

The reservoir has been bugging me from the start. It's a pain to fill and bleed. That's why I had to open up the bigger radiator and add the fill/bleed option.

 

Ever since Ron Sanut's video, I've liked this one very much.

Monsoon Series Two DDC Premium Dual 5.25 Reservoir - Matte Black
http://www.aquatuning.de/product_info.php/info/p15956_Monsoon-Series-Two-DDC-Premium-Dual-5-25--Reservoir---Matte-Black.html

However, I am uncertain whether it will make much of a difference. That and the 100 EUR price tag kept me from instantly ordering it.

 

I've been wondering how it is that it is always the bit between the GPU and the lower radiator that ends up with the air when I turn the system off.

Always, never anywhere else.

 

It's obviously working properly but the noise is driving me nuts. I can hear the bubbles forming in my reservoir and then there's ironically the sound a water cooler does make. m(

 

Any ideas?

[Scia]

I had to tilt my case about 80° for a lot of the air to get out. Just make sure your pump always gets fed.

Also you can invert the case shortly when the pump if turned off.

 

What also helps is having the pump running in a tilted position [left right front back, switch it up every few hours]. Just always make sure your pump is getting liquid ^^

[Ghost]

That monsoon resevoir is amazing. I doubt it will increase perfromance much but it will look great.

[KylSp]

Bayres with integrated pumps suck to bleed, and can have issues with bad priming. I wouldn't go that route again.

[Crion]

Bay res tend to have this problem.  Of course, Cylindrical res have this too when the pump is attached and the res is not a part of of the flow.  It'll take awhile but it'll eventually bleed out.  I think mine took about a week when I was using a bay res.

[Ghost]

Bayres with integrated pumps suck to bleed, and can have issues with bad priming. I wouldn't go that route again.

It depends on the res.

[Wynter]

That monsoon resevoir is amazing. I doubt it will increase perfromance much but it will look great.

And it would be what I initially wanted, a pump res combo. I don't have the room for a tube res in my case, thought about ordering and attaching an 80mm Bitspower Z Multi with a double nipple to my pump top, but it's 100mm in height + the fitting and just won't fit into my 5.25" bays. The lowest one is occupied and the pump Shoggy combo eats up two slots.

Putting in an XSPC Photon 170 or an Aquacomputer Aqualis Eco with nano coating would be a dream. Glass! None of that possibly untempered plexi BS

 

 

Bay res tend to have this problem.  Of course, Cylindrical res have this too when the pump is attached and the res is not a part of of the flow.  It'll take awhile but it'll eventually bleed out.  I think mine took about a week when I was using a bay res.

A WEEK?! Geez.

 

I did a 4-6h leak test and kept tilting until I couldn't get any more liquid into the loop, then let it run.

After that I opened both the valve at the upper radiator and the reservoir and let it run for a day, say 12-15 hours give or take.

Nothing changed. Bubbles kept forming, it still gluckered every so often.

 

Temps are sweet though. Especially GPU made me happy.

 

open case:

22C Ambient

27C Water

34C GPU load

24C GPU idle -- like lowest CPU core idle. 24 30 33 28

 

With a closed case the GPU is usually 1-2C below the lowest CPU core.

 

I was told that exhausting the smaller rad heat into the case and using that air to cool the upper bigger rad was inefficient. So far so good though.

Should it really have an impact, I thought about cutting a hole into the side and adding a 200mm fan for intake. At the moment there's just one

200 stock fan for intake and aside from the 3x NF-F12's just an eLoop B12-2 for exhaust.

[KylSp]

It depends on the res.

What ones don't have that problem? I've done the gambit from koolance to xspc and a typhoon, they all exhibit the same problematic characteristics. To people that don't know any better, they can fry their D5 in a few seconds of a bad prime.

 

They pretty much suck and should be avoided unless you absolutely need the space.

[FluffyNuggets]

Maybe refill it with the case turned on it's back. I bet the front radiator isn't filling properly. I had the same issues with my front radiator at one point but I've managed to figure out a way to avoid the problem. 

 

What I do is fill the reservoir till it stops going down and then tilt the case forward and shake, wait like 15 seconds, shake again, wait 15 seconds, and keep repeating. I keep doing this every possible angle I can till I stop hearing bubbles. 

 

You may not need to do it as much since I have a radiator in the top, front, and bottom, so I have way more places for air to hide. 

 

One other thing is to make sure you don't close the fill cap on the reservoir while bleeding. 

 

Sometimes when you can't get the bubble out it's often easier to just refill the entire thing. I had to go that route once and it was pretty quick and it bled correctly afterwards. 

 

Also, don't run your pump very long when filling. You don't want the reservoir to go empty. So just fill it and flip the pump on and off right away. 

[Ghost]

What ones don't have that problem? I've done the gambit from koolance to xspc and a typhoon, they all exhibit the same problematic characteristics. To people that don't know any better, they can fry their D5 in a few seconds of a bad prime.

 

They pretty much suck and should be avoided unless you absolutely need the space.

I'm pretty sure that as long as you are careful they all fill up correctly. Otherwise there would be a lot more complaints.

[Wynter]

Maybe refill it with the case turned on it's back. I bet the front radiator isn't filling properly. I had the same issues with my front radiator at one point but I've managed to figure out a way to avoid the problem. 

 

What I do is fill the reservoir till it stops going down and then tilt the case forward and shake, wait like 15 seconds, shake again, wait 15 seconds, and keep repeating. I keep doing this every possible angle I can till I stop hearing bubbles. 

 

You may not need to do it as much since I have a radiator in the top, front, and bottom, so I have way more places for air to hide. 

 

One other thing is to make sure you don't close the fill cap on the reservoir while bleeding. 

 

Sometimes when you can't get the bubble out it's often easier to just refill the entire thing. I had to go that route once and it was pretty quick and it bled correctly afterwards. 

 

Also, don't run your pump very long when filling. You don't want the reservoir to go empty. So just fill it and flip the pump on and off right away. 

There's no other position I can fill the loop in. The res only has that one hard to reach plug and you can't go and just open and close it as you please.

Wish it had an Allen key plug, then it would be easy to close. Otherwise it's a massive pain.

 

I did the whole fill, turn pump on, off, fill, on, off thing. The logic behind the design escapes me completely. You need a fill rate of at least 50% or the pump starts running dry.

The last 10% or so are almost impossible to use, at least with open reservoir, because of the weird alignment of the plug and coolant possibly spilling out.

 

Yeah I've seen videos and read about it - keeping the pump running while you keep filling is a pretty sure way to fry the thing.

 

I've tilted and shaken the case a bit with open radiator bleed/fill port and left it open while running the system now.

Theoretically it's the highest point in the loop.

 

Otherwise I'm still thinking about the Monsoon res.

I'm also considering adding a valve to the top outlet of the 240mm rad. Adding a long enough tube should help bleed that bugger more quickly.

 

 

I've seen videos of people ruining their pumps using tube reservoirs as well. Doesn't matter how you hook it up if you just keep it running while trying to fill it.

There's one re-uploaded one from wherever. Pump kept running but the flow just didn't want to really take off. In the end the pump was running more quietly,

as he happily noted, but it sounded like it pretty much had already died and not entirely given up yet.

I would get one of those two glass tube reservoirs mentioned above immediately, but there is just not enough room in the CM 840 case.

[FluffyNuggets]

There's no other position I can fill the loop in. The res only has that one hard to reach plug and you can't go and just open and close it as you please.

Wish it had an Allen key plug, then it would be easy to close. Otherwise it's a massive pain.

 

I did the whole fill, turn pump on, off, fill, on, off thing. The logic behind the design escapes me completely. You need a fill rate of at least 50% or the pump starts running dry.

The last 10% or so are almost impossible to use, at least with open reservoir, because of the weird alignment of the plug and coolant possibly spilling out.

 

Yeah I've seen videos and read about it - keeping the pump running while you keep filling is a pretty sure way to fry the thing.

 

I've tilted and shaken the case a bit with open radiator bleed/fill port and left it open while running the system now.

Theoretically it's the highest point in the loop.

 

Otherwise I'm still thinking about the Monsoon res.

I'm also considering adding a valve to the top outlet of the 240mm rad. Adding a long enough tube should help bleed that bugger more quickly.

 

 

I've seen videos of people ruining their pumps using tube reservoirs as well. Doesn't matter how you hook it up if you just keep it running while trying to fill it.

There's one re-uploaded one from wherever. Pump kept running but the flow just didn't want to really take off. In the end the pump was running more quietly,

as he happily noted, but it sounded like it pretty much had already died and not entirely given up yet.

I would get one of those two glass tube reservoirs mentioned above immediately, but there is just not enough room in the CM 840 case.

Maybe you should get something like this 

 

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/reviews/14284/ex-res-321/p1/Bitspower_Water_Tank_Z-Multi_40_Inline_Reservoir_-_Ice_Black_BP-WTZM40P-IBKBK-Page1.html?tl=g30c97s165#blank

 

or

 

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9574/ex-res-155/Bitspower_Water_Tank_Z-Multi_80_Inline_Reservoir_BP-WTZM80P-BK.html?tl=g30c97s165

 

I would never go back to a bay reservoir because they are massive pain to deal with like what you're finding out. 

[Wynter]

Maybe you should get something like this 

 

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/reviews/14284/ex-res-321/p1/Bitspower_Water_Tank_Z-Multi_40_Inline_Reservoir_-_Ice_Black_BP-WTZM40P-IBKBK-Page1.html?tl=g30c97s165#blank

 

or

 

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9574/ex-res-155/Bitspower_Water_Tank_Z-Multi_80_Inline_Reservoir_BP-WTZM80P-BK.html?tl=g30c97s165

 

I would never go back to a bay reservoir because they are massive pain to deal with like what you're finding out. 

Yeah I'd thought of those, wanted to get the 80mm version, but then saw it's actually 100mm + fitting and it just doesn't fit

That 40 seems way too small.

 

The Monsoon is supposed to be different, apparently easy to bleed according to the review videos.

 

I've had the machine running with open res and open bleed port of the top rad.

I've also removed some coolant from the res, leaving it at ~80% to avoid overflow. The tissues I placed over the opening just kept getting soaked.

At the moment there aren't that many bubbled, that much foam in the res. Before it looked a bit like somebody had put in soap.

The air pocket keeps moving though. I can hear it, sometimes more, sometimes less frequently.

 

What's also driving me towards getting the Monsoon res, I could finally put my BD-ROM back into the case.