Double pumps

[Lord Nicoll]

At some point in the future I'll be water cooling a PC I'm planning on building, well planned, I'll be buying sometime in the new few weeks except for the water cooling parts, but I plan to have a VMR block, CPU block and two GPU blocks with 4 radiators, Which is beyond the last water cooling custom loop I did a few months ago for a friend, so I decided I'd need two pumps, and I know I'd need a reservoir directly feeding the pump, but do both pumps (in series, about the same distance in the loop apart) need reservoir of equal size? Does the 2nd pump even need a reservoir since it'll still have at least some pressure and flow from the first pump? I'd kinda planned to have a 2nd smaller reservoir for the pump in the cases basement but that wouldn't be visible so might go dry easier, I couldn't find answers from my other water cooling friends as they never tried that. Should I just look for one massive pump or have two in parallel at the start?

[Lays]

Honestly, 1 MCP655 would probably be enough.  I ran 2 GPU, a CPU, 2 radiators on an MCP655 a while back, and even on the lowest setting there was still plenty of flow.

[Ryoku]

8 minutes ago, Lord Nicoll said:

At some point in the future I'll be water cooling a PC I'm planning on building, well planned, I'll be buying sometime in the new few weeks except for the water cooling parts, but I plan to have a VMR block, CPU block and two GPU blocks with 4 radiators, Which is beyond the last water cooling custom loop I did a few months ago for a friend, so I decided I'd need two pumps, and I know I'd need a reservoir directly feeding the pump, but do both pumps (in series, about the same distance in the loop apart) need reservoir of equal size? Does the 2nd pump even need a reservoir since it'll still have at least some pressure and flow from the first pump? I'd kinda planned to have a 2nd smaller reservoir for the pump in the cases basement but that wouldn't be visible so might go dry easier, I couldn't find answers from my other water cooling friends as they never tried that. Should I just look for one massive pump or have two in parallel at the start?

Could also do a double loop 1 pump and res for each.

[Lord Nicoll]

12 minutes ago, Lays said:

Honestly, 1 MCP655 would probably be enough.  I ran 2 GPU, a CPU, 2 radiators on an MCP655 a while back, and even on the lowest setting there was still plenty of flow.

Yeah, but 4 rads (1 dual, 1 quad and 2 triple) with over a 12 inch (actually more like 24") difference in height has me slightly alarmed in terms of head pressure, I don't think a single pump can pump up the max height after pushing through all that. I'm by no means a fluid dynamics doctor but the maths looks a little worse for wear. Also I hate that pump, ugly as sin and very poor fittings, I'll be using a lot of hard line tubing (but soft line in places not seen and in the radiator box as advised by Jayztwocents, I noted his way was really easy) Others have recommended dual pumps in the past so I don't think an even bigger one could use just 1.

[Lord Nicoll]

2 minutes ago, Ryoku said:

Could also do a double loop 1 pump and res for each.

I thought about it but I want them to be balanced and two loops is a pain. I'd prefer 1 whole loop so if there is thermal headroom in one (there will be in the CPU one) it can help the GPU one, so hence one loop. 

edit: Plus I already copied the good things from Skunkworks, I don't want the whole copy of it though, I'd perfer my own engineering touch to it. 

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Lord Nicoll

[Lays]

11 minutes ago, Lord Nicoll said:

Yeah, but 4 rads (1 dual, 1 quad and 2 triple) with over a 12 inch (actually more like 24") difference in height has me slightly alarmed in terms of head pressure, I don't think a single pump can pump up the max height after pushing through all that. I'm by no means a fluid dynamics doctor but the maths looks a little worse for wear. Also I hate that pump, ugly as sin and very poor fittings, I'll be using a lot of hard line tubing (but soft line in places not seen and in the radiator box as advised by Jayztwocents, I noted his way was really easy) Others have recommended dual pumps in the past so I don't think an even bigger one could use just 1.

 

You can get full kits for the MCP655 to make it look however you want, they also have ones that don't have fittings, but rather G1/4 threads put into the pump. The MCP655 is a freakin work horse that has tons of flow, I'm sure it'd be perfectly fine.  I've seen people running quad GPU, VRM, RAM, multiple RAD setups with a single on before.  Like I said previously, 2 480mm radiators, 2 GPU blocks, a CPU block inside a 900D with very long tube runs from the components since the case is so big, and I could use the LOWEST setting and still have tons of flow.  The MCP655 has 5 speed settings, so if speed #1 was fine for all that, you'd probably only need 3-4 after adding more radiators.

 

They have so many options for this pump, it's crazy.

 

[gamerking]

12 minutes ago, Lord Nicoll said:

I thought about it but I want them to be balanced and two loops is a pain. I'd prefer 1 whole loop so if there is thermal headroom in one (there will be in the CPU one) it can help the GPU one, so hence one loop. 

edit: Plus I already copied the good things from Skunkworks, I don't want the whole copy of it though, I'd perfer my own engineering touch to it. 

 

are you planing on having more then 3.9m of tubing . rads have nearly no resistance same with the tubing . only your blocks matter . i ran 1 d5 and had 12 feet of tubing 2 970 blocks ,cpu , and 3 360mm rads and a 240mm rad all on one lonely d5

[Lord Nicoll]

I planned the loop to start with the first pump/res, go to a tripple rad, then go to the basement, into a quad rad, into a double rad, into 2nd pump, up to the GPU blocks in parallel, then the CPU, then the build in VRM (ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Formula) then the last rad, a triple and then back into the reservoir for pump 1, with probably a smaller reservoir for pump 2. Not an easy loop but I love challenges but the loop will probably evolve as the final plans are laid out. 

 

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Lays said:

 

You can get full kits for the MCP655 to make it look however you want, they also have ones that don't have fittings, but rather G1/4 threads put into the pump. The MCP655 is a freakin work horse that has tons of flow, I'm sure it'd be perfectly fine.  I've seen people running quad GPU, VRM, RAM, multiple RAD setups with a single on before.  Like I said previously, 2 480mm radiators, 2 GPU blocks, a CPU block inside a 900D with very long tube runs from the components since the case is so big, and I could use the LOWEST setting and still have tons of flow.  The MCP655 has 5 speed settings, so if speed #1 was fine for all that, you'd probably only need 3-4 after adding more radiators.

 

They have so many options for this pump, it's crazy.

 

That isn't too bad, can it mount to the reservoir because I'd prefer a combo unit so I only have to mount and wire 1 in. That is basically the colour scheme I'm aiming for with this build, Red and Black, classic ROG, inside a case labs MAGNUM SMA8 if I can get my hands on, but I plan to hold onto my current case until I buy the GPU's and case together, the biggest and most expensive PC thing I'll have bought excluding my rack server. 

[Lord Nicoll]

2 minutes ago, gamerking said:

are you planing on having more then 3.9m of tubing . rads have nearly no resistance same with the tubing . only your blocks matter . i ran 1 d5 and had 12 feet of tubing 2 970 blocks ,cpu , and 3 360mm rads and a 240mm rad all on one lonely d5

I planned the loop (in it's current iteration) to have very little little tubing, under 2 metres, closer to 1 metre hopefully of actual tubing, unless I run a tube down the back, which currently is not planned. There is a quote of a post I just placed for the loop.

 

2 minutes ago, Lord Nicoll said:

I planned the loop to start with the first pump/res, go to a tripple rad, then go to the basement, into a quad rad, into a double rad, into 2nd pump, up to the GPU blocks in parallel, then the CPU, then the build in VRM (ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Formula) then the last rad, a triple and then back into the reservoir for pump 1, with probably a smaller reservoir for pump 2. Not an easy loop but I love challenges but the loop will probably evolve as the final plans are laid out. 

 

[Lays]

Just now, Lord Nicoll said:

I planned the loop to start with the first pump/res, go to a tripple rad, then go to the basement, into a quad rad, into a double rad, into 2nd pump, up to the GPU blocks in parallel, then the CPU, then the build in VRM (ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Formula) then the last rad, a triple and then back into the reservoir for pump 1, with probably a smaller reservoir for pump 2. Not an easy loop but I love challenges but the loop will probably evolve as the final plans are laid out. 

 

 

 

 

 

That isn't too bad, can it mount to the reservoir because I'd prefer a combo unit so I only have to mount and wire 1 in. That is basically the colour scheme I'm aiming for with this build, Red and Black, classic ROG, inside a case labs MAGNUM SMA8 if I can get my hands on, but I plan to hold onto my current case until I buy the GPU's and case together, the biggest and most expensive PC thing I'll have bought excluding my rack server. 

Yes, the MCP655 can be mounted into reservoirs, basically the possibilities for customization of it are endless, basically every top-tier watercooling company makes tons of parts for it that you can customize to your liking.

 

Bitspower even makes a double pump top with reservoir mount on it.

 

 

 

Here's a fancy white bitspower kit, you could get it in black and red though.

 

[Lord Nicoll]

Just now, Lays said:

Yes, the MCP655 can be mounted into reservoirs, basically the possibilities for customization of it are endless, basically every top-tier watercooling company makes tons of parts for it that you can customize to your liking.

 

Bitspower even makes a double pump top with reservoir mount on it.

 

 

 

Here's a fancy white bitspower kit, you could get it in black and red though.

 

Thank's, that certainly isn't the shitty looking plastic monstrosity that Linus used in those awful zip-tied systems lol

[Lays]

8 minutes ago, Lord Nicoll said:

Thank's, that certainly isn't the shitty looking plastic monstrosity that Linus used in those awful zip-tied systems lol

It's linus, when it comes to his build guides they're usually the quickest down & dirty things they can do to get the video out ASAP.  (No offence :P)

[Lord Nicoll]

9 minutes ago, Lays said:

It's linus, when it comes to his build guides they're usually the quickest down & dirty things they can do to get the video out ASAP.  (No offence :P)

You have no idea what my current PC has been through for down and dirty and quick, it might look now, but Goggles still has nasty and hidden secrets like it's majorly faulted mobo. A stock Pentium 4 cooler from 2002 was used for a while to cool the CPU, held on with zip ties. the fan was electrical taped on and had two resistors to limit the pure 12 volt supply, those resistors needed their own fan

[Lays]

Just now, Lord Nicoll said:

You have no idea what my current PC has been through for down and dirty and quick, it might look now, but Goggles still has nasty and hidden secrets like it's majorly faulted mobo

Lol don't worry, my radiator is external and I've been too lazy to buy some fittings to properly take my tubing out of the case so I can close my side panel.

 

The tubing just goes out the side, instead of out one of the PCI-E brackets with the nice little fitting adapter I have lol.  It'd probably only cost $20 to do it all, I'm just way too lazy rofl.

 

 

[Lord Nicoll]

2 minutes ago, Lays said:

Lol don't worry, my radiator is external and I've been too lazy to buy some fittings to properly take my tubing out of the case so I can close my side panel.

 

The tubing just goes out the side, instead of out one of the PCI-E brackets with the nice little fitting adapter I have lol.  It'd probably only cost $20 to do it all, I'm just way too lazy rofl.

 

 

Least your room is clean lol, mine has those little finger trap holes for pipping to go out, oh corsair you thing of everything. 

 

[Denned]

There's also a new D5 variant from Alphacool called VPP755 with even better stats than the old 655

 

http://www.alphacool.com/shop/pumps/alphacool-pumps/20531/alphacool-eispumpe-vpp755-single-edition

[Lord Nicoll]

2 minutes ago, Denned said:

There's also a new D5 variant from Alphacool called VPP755 with even better stats than the old 655

 

http://www.alphacool.com/shop/pumps/alphacool-pumps/20531/alphacool-eispumpe-vpp755-single-edition

I'll probably get that one, I was looking at all the D5 variants, if it turns out to be good when I go to buy the parts

 

[0ld_Chicken]

Surely 1 d5 would be plenty, though there is nothing wrong with 2 (I've got 2 in series in a dual top).  I've got 5 rads, 2 gpu/1 cpu block, 4 sets of quick disconnects and about 3ft of loop rise with 10-90°s and a few 45°s and 1 d5 gets me a great flowrate.  I was even able to bleed the loop easily with only 1 pump on, which surprised me.

 

You should be able to place a second pump, down the loop, without adding another res. Just make sure to run only the pump with the res at first to get things filled without running that second pump dry. (Should be easy if you open a plugged port near the end of the loop to let air escape)

 

I don't think there's much of a performance benefit to spreading the pumps around the loop, though it can be easier to lay out or better looking in some scenarios.

 

Off topic: I recently scored a second hand EK original CSQ dual d5 top for 40$ and I'm super excited, finishing the install today

 

Edit: the vpp755 are looking great from reviews! Stronger, Quieter, smaller, more efficient, but reliability has yet to be seen and that's HUGE. Also check compatibility closely with whatever top you're going to use because they aren't compatible with all d5 tops!

[Lord Nicoll]

5 minutes ago, 0ld_Chicken said:

Surely 1 d5 would be plenty, though there is nothing wrong with 2 (I've got 2 in series in a dual top).  I've got 5 rads, 2 gpu/1 cpu block, 4 sets of quick disconnects and about 3ft of loop rise with 10-90°s and a few 45°s and 1 d5 gets me a great flowrate.  I was even able to bleed the loop easily with only 1 pump on, which surprised me.

 

You should be able to place a second pump, down the loop, without adding another res. Just make sure to run only the pump with the res at first to get things filled without running that second pump dry. (Should be easy if you open a plugged port near the end of the loop to let air escape)

 

I don't think there's much of a performance benefit to spreading the pumps around the loop, though it can be easier to lay out or better looking in some scenarios.

 

Off topic: I recently scored a second hand EK original CSQ dual d5 top for 40$ and I'm super excited, finishing the install today

 

Edit: the vpp755 are looking great from reviews! Stronger, Quieter, smaller, more efficient, but reliability has yet to be seen and that's HUGE. Also check compatibility closely with whatever top you're going to use because they aren't compatible with all d5 tops!

Yeah, the dual pumps at 50% might be a better option because this will be a machine on for better part of 24 hours. The massive amount of rads for only SLI GTX1080TI's and I7 6700 is so I can really turn the fan speed down and sleep while it remains on beside me at 100% load all through the night.

[0ld_Chicken]

9 minutes ago, Lord Nicoll said:

Yeah, the dual pumps at 50% might be a better option because this will be a machine on for better part of 24 hours. The massive amount of rads for only SLI GTX1080TI's and I7 6700 is so I can really turn the fan speed down and sleep while it remains on beside me at 100% load all through the night.

I got a shoggy sandwich to decouple my pumps and I'm shocked at how quiet it is while running both at "5". The psu I'm using to power the pumps (currently bleeding the loop) is louder than both pumps at max. Much quieter than any foam I've tried to use.  If silence is your goal, I cannot recommend those enough! 

 

As far as rad space, enjoy!  I've started building with excessive rad space and I bloody love it!  I doubt I'll ever build with less than 240mm+ per component

[Lord Nicoll]

1 minute ago, 0ld_Chicken said:

I got a shoggy sandwich to decouple my pumps and I'm shocked at how quiet it is while running both at "5". The psu I'm using to power the pumps (currently bleeding the loop) is louder than both pumps at max. Much quieter than any foam I've tried to use.  If silence is your goal, I cannot recommend those enough! 

 

As far as rad space, enjoy!  I've started building with excessive rad space and I bloody love it!  I doubt I'll ever build with less than 240mm+ per component

I know that feel, 2 tripple, 1 quad and 1 double (I think the SMA8 has 120mm ones, but I could be wrong, I'll be using the biggest that fits) should mean, I could probably use no fans and still be ok for a few hours until the heat soaking has reached 100%. My RM850x is pretty quite even when on and I'm amazing with metal fabrication, so those pumps, rads and everything screwed to that case will be rubber mounted (my entire server rack is rubber mount isolated, quite as fuck) so rattling won't be an issue, only fan noise will be. 

[0ld_Chicken]

12 minutes ago, Lord Nicoll said:

I know that feel, 2 tripple, 1 quad and 1 double (I think the SMA8 has 120mm ones, but I could be wrong, I'll be using the biggest that fits) should mean, I could probably use no fans and still be ok for a few hours until the heat soaking has reached 100%. My RM850x is pretty quite even when on and I'm amazing with metal fabrication, so those pumps, rads and everything screwed to that case will be rubber mounted (my entire server rack is rubber mount isolated, quite as fuck) so rattling won't be an issue, only fan noise will be. 

Yeah I usually run my fans around 500rpm up to 900rpm at full load and never go above 7°c water-air Delta which is fantastic to me.  

 

I just switched psu's to a RM1000x and I'm very happy with its noise profile.  The "low load fan off" mode is great for light loads and even when I'm pulling 800w, I cannot hear a thing!  My Antec hcg-750m was audible at idle which was disappointing. 

[Lord Nicoll]

1 minute ago, 0ld_Chicken said:

Yeah I usually run my fans around 500rpm up to 900rpm at full load and never go above 7°c water-air Delta which is fantastic to me.  

 

I just switched psu's to a RM1000x and I'm very happy with its noise profile.  The "low load fan off" mode is great for light loads and even when I'm pulling 800w, I cannot hear a thing!  My Antec hcg-750m was audible at idle which was disappointing. 

Yeah, currently that RM850x is powering a HD7870 and I5 3570k, so no where near full power, fan has never come on, but a 140mm fan forces air over and through it so it won't even do it because of thermal  buildup.

[SmashinMachine]

 I have 1xGPU 1xCPU  420mm RAD and 280mm RAD. I know a single pump can handle this. I use dual pump in series with 150mm long Reservoir for Redundancy, better Heat Pressure and Silence. It runs 16h/day @30%

[SmashinMachine]

https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2011/04/26/pump-setup-series-vs-parallel/

Maybe it helps