4K Workflow and Equipment

[WINcon_Gaming]

Hello lovely people!

 

I am looking to get into 4K content production and don't quiet know where to start. My tech background is pretty solid but quiet lacking when it comes to video editing and videography, but that's nothing a few YouTube videos and help from the LTT crew can't remedy.

 

I was hoping the community here would be able to point me in the right direction to get started off right. The content I would be producing is something along the lines of product reviews with video and stills, real life action, vlogging, and if I could integrate some of this into live streaming that would be awesome.

 

My current workstation can handle 4K editing just fine and I've got the storage side of the house down, it's just the technologies, procedures, and products I'm not too sure about.

Looking forward to learning more with you folks!

 

- WINcon

[xQubeZx]

For editing I think the Adobe suite is the way to go. What budget do you have for camera, audio and lightning gear? Are you going to do any color grading? Any low light shooting that could benefit from a FullFrame camera? Or do you want to go the way and buy a video camera instead of a DSLR as a lot of people do?

 

To me its hard to reccomend something without a bit more information. (Especially the budget)

[WINcon_Gaming]

Thanks for the Reply Qube! I watched Linus's video yesterday on "4K is it worth it?" and that left me with even more questions. It really does seem that unless I'm spending $5K+ on a professional grade camera I won't see any measurable difference between upscaled 1080P footage and native 4K. What are your thoughts on this?

 

Definitely going to be utilizing the adobe suite, I'm familiar with the basics and it seems to be the industry standard. 

 

For lighting gear I've got a Fancierstudio UL9004SB-69BWG Kit that I use for my green screen set up and streaming, do you think this will be sufficient for high quality product reviews and vlogging?

 

As far as cameras go I was thinking of getting a video camera that's capable of filming in 4K and taking awesome stills as well. My budget will be around $1.5K for all the things, not including storage which I've got covered with existing hardware. Some of the ones I was consider are the Panasonic HC-WX970k, Sony FDR-AX100, Sony FDRAX33, or even a action camera but I'm not sure that quality of those for what I'm trying to do. Something worth noting is I'll be using the camera as a video input for live streaming as well, if I'm investing this kind of money into a camera it makes sense to get rid of my old C920.

[xQubeZx]

3 hours ago, WINcon_Gaming said:

Thanks for the Reply Qube! I watched Linus's video yesterday on "4K is it worth it?" and that left me with even more questions. It really does seem that unless I'm spending $5K+ on a professional grade camera I won't see any measurable difference between upscaled 1080P footage and native 4K. What are your thoughts on this?

 

Definitely going to be utilizing the adobe suite, I'm familiar with the basics and it seems to be the industry standard. 

 

For lighting gear I've got a Fancierstudio UL9004SB-69BWG Kit that I use for my green screen set up and streaming, do you think this will be sufficient for high quality product reviews and vlogging?

 

As far as cameras go I was thinking of getting a video camera that's capable of filming in 4K and taking awesome stills as well. My budget will be around $1.5K for all the things, not including storage which I've got covered with existing hardware. Some of the ones I was consider are the Panasonic HC-WX970k, Sony FDR-AX100, Sony FDRAX33, or even a action camera but I'm not sure that quality of those for what I'm trying to do. Something worth noting is I'll be using the camera as a video input for live streaming as well, if I'm investing this kind of money into a camera it makes sense to get rid of my old C920.

Okey, since you are thinking of a videocamera I would strongly suggest you talk to @ALwin as he is very good on that subject. He will most likley know more on what you will need then I do since he actually works with this stuff. 

[ALwin]

I strongly recommend getting the following camera and lenses.

Cameras:

Canon C700 with a PL mount

Or the Sony PMW F55

Or this For.A FT-ONE-OPT Full 4K Variable Frame Rate Camera

 

Lenses:

Fujinon 14.5-45mm T2.0 Premier PL Zoom Lens

Fujinon 75-400mm T2.8-3.8 Premier PL Zoom Lens

or this set of lenses: Leica Summilux-C 10-Lens Set

 

OK in all seriousness, the camcorders the OP's considering are good enough for what he/she/it wants to do.  Frankly, it's a waste and overkill to film "tech" reviews in 4K.  I see no point in it then the OP wanting to brag "my YouTube videos are filmed in 4K".  There's also the fact that YouTube is full (or more like over saturated) of people who upload "tech review" or "vlogging" videos.  At least several hundreds of hours worth of crap are uploaded to YouTube a day, do we really need someone to add more crap?

[WINcon_Gaming]

5 hours ago, ALwin said:

I strongly recommend getting the following camera and lenses.

Cameras:

Canon C700 with a PL mount

Or the Sony PMW F55

Or this For.A FT-ONE-OPT Full 4K Variable Frame Rate Camera

 

Lenses:

Fujinon 14.5-45mm T2.0 Premier PL Zoom Lens

Fujinon 75-400mm T2.8-3.8 Premier PL Zoom Lens

or this set of lenses: Leica Summilux-C 10-Lens Set

 

OK in all seriousness, the camcorders the OP's considering are good enough for what he/she/it wants to do.  Frankly, it's a waste and overkill to film "tech" reviews in 4K.  I see no point in it then the OP wanting to brag "my YouTube videos are filmed in 4K".  There's also the fact that YouTube is full (or more like over saturated) of people who upload "tech review" or "vlogging" videos.  At least several hundreds of hours worth of crap are uploaded to YouTube a day, do we really need someone to add more crap?

Thanks for the pointers on the equipment! I will take a look at them.

 

Is the market totally saturated? Totally, in every way. But if everyone who wanted to make a difference didn't even try because there was already someone else doing it then nothing great would ever be done. It's just a hobby that I enjoy and have the ability to pursue. Will I be YouTube famous one day? Probably not, but as long as the journey is fun and I pick up a few skills and hobbies along the way than I'm happy.

[WINcon_Gaming]

And I just noticed the sarcasm in your post by linking production grade equipment. Thanks for that, but I will totally take a look at some of your other guides linked in your signature.

[iamMINT]

Well- if you're not wanting to spend more than five grand on a camera, you'd probably want to go for a Panasonic GH4. 4k, nice sensor, decent colors, and a 4/3rd mount. Why the 4/3rd mount? Well, it's cheaper than PL. WAY cheaper. You can find some really nice voightlander lenses that snap right in for under five hundred bucks that are at the same quality, if not much better than entry level Canon and Fuji glass. That is, if you don't mind using primes. 

 

If you're looking to spend a bit more, I'd really recommend getting you a Blackmagic. I can't really talk for a lot of their lower end models, though I'm sure they're fantastic. Though their URSA line is about two and a half or three grand grey market- pop on some decent Fuji glass for it and you've got most of what you're going to need. Yet, like they said in that video LTT made about the camera- you're going to have to buy something called CFAST cards, because this thing doesn't really take typical SD cards, or SSD. Unless you can get one of those handy monitors that record straight to SSD, you're going to be putting down a few hundred on just a sixty four gig card- and for this cam, that shoots something like 4k in 120fps, it's only going to give you just a few minutes of recording time. 

 

There's a lot out there, and in the production world it isn't always about what's awesome- it's about what you want to avoid. If you're going for 4k in video, I'd say you keep away from those cheaper camcorders and mirrorless cameras. The GH4 and the GH3 are really the only cameras I can recommend you buy in the small and (relatively) cheap market. For a bit more, blackmagic makes some good stuff. So does Sony with their bigger bodies, though those are going to run you down quite a bit more.

 

To keep this from getting super, super long I'll just say one more thing. With photo/video work a lot of stuff really is good enough. A lot of these awesome features and stuff don't really matter, honestly. You don't need them. A lot of the stuff you can get for even under a thousand bucks is going to be professional and it's going to bring you professional results. The Sony A7 line- even though I really don't like those cameras, will bring you professional results. Same for the cameras I recommended as well. What you need to do is figure out exactly what you need from a camera, and look for whatever you need that will fit that mold as best as possible. 

 

If you need super high specs like 60fps, 4k, 360 degree shutter, and so on- a sony might be what you need. Though if you're looking for good colors, awesome depth, and to still keep that 4k option I think that those Blackmagic cameras are going to suit you just fine. If you can handle the huge video sizes that go with that quality. To me, I think the GH4 and GH3 are more suited for someone who needs portability, 4k 60fps, and they still retain good color depth. And even though these are really the only camera's I'm going to bring up, you could honestly go out and buy quite a few things. These are just examples, there's a lot more out there.

 

If any of these have interested you, that's awesome. If not- even better. Just go out and see exactly what you need and try to find the camera that does that for you. Personally, I went with Fuji and Nikon because of their awesome lenses. But, that's just me. Look out there and see what you think is going to suit you for the needs you face and go with it. Because like I said- it's probably a professional camera, and it's going to get you professional results. 

[ALwin]

10 hours ago, WINcon_Gaming said:

And I just noticed the sarcasm in your post by linking production grade equipment. Thanks for that, but I will totally take a look at some of your other guides linked in your signature.

This camera is more then enough for what you want to do.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00R5LH9G0/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00R5LH9G0&linkCode=as2&linkId=LMG6INZM35EZ2AZX&tag=linus21-20

[WINcon_Gaming]

On 9/9/2016 at 8:47 PM, JohnBRoark said:

Well- if you're not wanting to spend more than five grand on a camera, you'd probably want to go for a Panasonic GH4. 4k, nice sensor, decent colors, and a 4/3rd mount. Why the 4/3rd mount? Well, it's cheaper than PL. WAY cheaper. You can find some really nice voightlander lenses that snap right in for under five hundred bucks that are at the same quality, if not much better than entry level Canon and Fuji glass. That is, if you don't mind using primes. 

 

If you're looking to spend a bit more, I'd really recommend getting you a Blackmagic. I can't really talk for a lot of their lower end models, though I'm sure they're fantastic. Though their URSA line is about two and a half or three grand grey market- pop on some decent Fuji glass for it and you've got most of what you're going to need. Yet, like they said in that video LTT made about the camera- you're going to have to buy something called CFAST cards, because this thing doesn't really take typical SD cards, or SSD. Unless you can get one of those handy monitors that record straight to SSD, you're going to be putting down a few hundred on just a sixty four gig card- and for this cam, that shoots something like 4k in 120fps, it's only going to give you just a few minutes of recording time. 

 

There's a lot out there, and in the production world it isn't always about what's awesome- it's about what you want to avoid. If you're going for 4k in video, I'd say you keep away from those cheaper camcorders and mirrorless cameras. The GH4 and the GH3 are really the only cameras I can recommend you buy in the small and (relatively) cheap market. For a bit more, blackmagic makes some good stuff. So does Sony with their bigger bodies, though those are going to run you down quite a bit more.

 

To keep this from getting super, super long I'll just say one more thing. With photo/video work a lot of stuff really is good enough. A lot of these awesome features and stuff don't really matter, honestly. You don't need them. A lot of the stuff you can get for even under a thousand bucks is going to be professional and it's going to bring you professional results. The Sony A7 line- even though I really don't like those cameras, will bring you professional results. Same for the cameras I recommended as well. What you need to do is figure out exactly what you need from a camera, and look for whatever you need that will fit that mold as best as possible. 

 

If you need super high specs like 60fps, 4k, 360 degree shutter, and so on- a sony might be what you need. Though if you're looking for good colors, awesome depth, and to still keep that 4k option I think that those Blackmagic cameras are going to suit you just fine. If you can handle the huge video sizes that go with that quality. To me, I think the GH4 and GH3 are more suited for someone who needs portability, 4k 60fps, and they still retain good color depth. And even though these are really the only camera's I'm going to bring up, you could honestly go out and buy quite a few things. These are just examples, there's a lot more out there.

 

If any of these have interested you, that's awesome. If not- even better. Just go out and see exactly what you need and try to find the camera that does that for you. Personally, I went with Fuji and Nikon because of their awesome lenses. But, that's just me. Look out there and see what you think is going to suit you for the needs you face and go with it. Because like I said- it's probably a professional camera, and it's going to get you professional results. 

After much research I've settled on a GH4. While I would like to go for a Sony A7S II, I can't justify the extra $1,200. That's not to say the internal 5x IS wouldn't be awesome. To counter this I'm going to go for either a  PANASONIC LUMIX G X Vario Lens, 12-35mm, F2.8 ASPH or the 35-100MM variant, their OIS is the major selling point for me. If I was going to go with one set of glass for quiet sometime which would you recommend, or maybe something else I'm not even considering.

 

Thank you again for all the great information it's much appreciated mate!

[iamMINT]

5 hours ago, WINcon_Gaming said:

After much research I've settled on a GH4. While I would like to go for a Sony A7S II, I can't justify the extra $1,200. That's not to say the internal 5x IS wouldn't be awesome. To counter this I'm going to go for either a  PANASONIC LUMIX G X Vario Lens, 12-35mm, F2.8 ASPH or the 35-100MM variant, their OIS is the major selling point for me. If I was going to go with one set of glass for quiet sometime which would you recommend, or maybe something else I'm not even considering.

 

Thank you again for all the great information it's much appreciated mate!

Awesome choice! I know award winning commercial videographers using those things daily. 

 

So one last thing about the camera setup. Lenses.

 

Now a lot of guys that are newer to this field don't really understand that the lens you're using is SUPER important. As the fact that the camera is only just a box where light is captured. The lens gives you all of the character and depth people are looking for. Now due to this, you're going to want to spend more money on your lenses than you're going to spend on your camera body.

 

For my own professional still use all nikon and fuji primes for both my nikon and fuji bodies. Now the reason I haven't recommended any of these cameras is because they're mirrored and only really for photography work. Though, for what you're doing- the GH4 is awesome for what you need (hopefully.) Yet, the thing is that the glass is still the most important thing you can ever get for your camera.

 

Now what I recommend is that you get is one of those older AIS Nikon F mount lenses. They're rather cheap- you can grab a 135 2.8 or a 105 2.5 and it will knock your socks off. These things are legendary in the photo world due to their facial compression, subject isolation (sometimes confused with a thin depth of field), and their general quality. These awesome pics were shot with a 105 2.5. You might recognize the one on the left, it's considered to be one of the most viewed photos of all time. 

 

Here's one taken with a 135 2.8 and here's one of my shots I've got with a 180 2.8. As you can tell, you can get some crazy awesome detail and characteristics you're not going to be able to even touch with one of those crappy panasonic kit lenses. This is what one of these look like- make sure you get something like this- a lot of the lenses I've listed above look similar. Make sure they're either Ai or AIs. Non AI (q) mount lenses will monkey up your adapter (which is what you have to use to make it fit on the 4/3 mount system your gh4 will have).

 

All this awesome stuff will run you a few hundred, which is awesome considering it'll be a few THOUSAND if you went to seek that kind of quality otherwise. But for your other stuff, try and get a lens without OIS. I know it sounds cool, but for the effect to work there's actually a little element in the lens that literally vibrates to counteract the shaking you put into the camera. And as you can tell, the results look pretty nasty. With the entire focal plane shifting in a really weird unnatural way. Not only do these lesnes, because of this system, have bad image quality- but do they also cost WAY more than lenses at the same price point.

 

Now what I would do if I were you is get something like a used Voightlander Nokt 4/3 lens. These things are german made lenses, mostly based off of ten thousand dollar Leica lenses. You can get something like this that isn't only going to give you AMAZING quality, super awesome performance, superior construction, and whatnot. Though, what a lot of that money is going towards is that 0.95 aperture, which is just insane at that focal length. You could use this for just about every normal thing you'd want to, and also have the capabilities of opening it wide open for shooting in the middle of the night. And with the reduced price, you can actually go and get a cage or something else for stabilizing your image at a physical level.  

 

Now I know what you're thinking- no zooms? It's crazy. I've been using only primes in my professional career forever and I've never had a single problem with them. I actually prefer them. Not only because, as you can tell now, they have much much superior quality over zooms- but do they also make me think more about my shot and not just turn a wheel to get everything I want. With a prime you're going to have to think about where you're putting your camera and move your feet accordingly. You have to see the image in your head before you see it through your viewfinder. Which, when you're first starting out, actually really helps you improve.

 

Also- one last thing is that all of these lenses are manual focus. Which means the camera doesn't actually focus the lens, you do. There's a big wheel on there you have to turn that focuses it. At first it can be a little disorienting to have to manually focus- but for video, ti's a must. You will never see an autofocus lens on a professional set. That's because cameras are only instruments- tools. They don't know how to focus a camera. That's why you'll need to manual focus, because not only can it actually be faster than auto focus (once you get the hang of it), but do your images typically come out much sharper after you've had some practice.

 

Finally, I want to just say that this is all a bit different from what a lot of internet video guys do. The setup you had was good- and like I said in the previous post, it's all professional. That OIS lens is professional and you will get professional results. Though- if you want to get the best image you possibly can for your money that will blow your viewers away, there are other options out there.

 

Also, P.S- if you're looking into getting any of these used lenses, watch this video on checking older lenses for mistreatment and nastiness. It's an awesome video and it's a must see if you're buying stuff greymarket, which I highly recommenced. 

[WINcon_Gaming]

Thank you so much for the great advice mate, you articulate your points very well and make the topics very easy to understand. You always seem to be a step ahead of what I'm thinking with your reply, it's awesome!

 

On that note...What's your take on using a Aputure Lensregain DEC? I looked at the Metabones as well but the capability of the Aputure is amazing, for video work being able to remotely control your focus without touching the camera on a gimbal seems awesome. Not to mention cheaper and better performance. I was going to pair it with a Sigma 18-35mm f1/8 but the Zhiyun Crane gimbal I selected wouldn't support the weight. 

 

Following your advice I looked into prime lenses and think the Tamron 35mm f1/8 will do just fine, pairing with the Aputure should really help with the poor low light performance that the GH4 is known for. Grant it does have Tamron's version of OIS, I haven't heard of any loss of quality. 

 

Thoughts from an expert? 

 

PS: I'm in love with that gimbal lol. 

[ALwin]

5 hours ago, WINcon_Gaming said:

snip

So with all these products you're thinking of getting, how much are you spending?  What's your business plan to recoup all that money you're investing?  You're not going to spend a few thousand dollars and then only film product reviews...

 

Panasonic GH4: $1300

Aperture lens adapter: $580

Tamron lens: $600

Gimbal: $600

Other items you'll definitely be needing: unknown

You're going to spend over $3000.

 

If you're going to spend that much, you might as well go invest in an Ursa Mini or something.  At least this way you'll have a better chance of getting hired as a freelance cameraman by indie production houses or DPs who are always looking to find a freelancer to work with on an irregular basis.

[WINcon_Gaming]

Really not much of a business plan mate, this is more of just a hobby that if I get good enough at and am able to produce good quality work then I'd look into monetizing it. Eventually I'll get into aerial drone photography with this this GH4 and a S1000, that's why i don't want to get a higher end camera that weighs more. From what I've seen a GH4 can produce studio quality work given the right operator.

 

Maybe one day I'll invest in a Ursa Mini or something of the sorts, but for now I think a GH4 offers a wide variety of additions that can be scaled logically and relatively affordably to produce better results. 

[ALwin]

32 minutes ago, WINcon_Gaming said:

snip

So that's another $4800 on a S1000 drone, because you'll need the Lightbridge 2 connectivity and the Zenmuse gimbal for the GH4.  Not to mention you'll need a license to pilot the drone with the new FAA rules.  Why not save yourself a lot of money by getting a Phantom 3 4K or Phantom 4 for a drone?  I know commercial DPs who use Phantom drones to film stuff, I just finished editing a project where one of the cameras used was a Phantom drone (not mine though, the drone filming was done by another crew).

 

DJI makes a camera that can be mounted on both the Osmo gimbal and on their drones, save yourself a lot of money and just get that camera instead of the GH4. If your ultimate goal is aerial video.  I think the camera is the Zenmuse X5 that can be mounted on the Inspire drone.  It uses a MFT sensor and you can mount any MFT lens and with an adapter you can mount it on an Osmo.

 

By the way, the GH4 has a 2x crop factor, so with that 35mm Tamron lens you'll be getting a FOV equivalent to a 70mm lens.  For video that can be quite narrow, but of course it depends on the framing needed.  The go to focal length on my video camera is a 24mm lens, but I have a crop factor of roughly 1.5 (since Super35 is pretty similar in size to APS-C), which gives me the FOV similar to a 36mm lens on a FF sensor.

[geomi neun babo]

7 hours ago, ALwin said:

the GH4 has a 2x crop factor, so with that 35mm Tamron lens you'll be getting a FOV equivalent to a 70mm lens

This is a good point about the GH4.  Camcorders with their tiny sensors obviously have very large crop factors but they also have very short focal length lenses attached which compensates for the crop factor.  But with a camera like the GH4 you would either need to invest in native lenses with very short focal lengths or if you want to use cheaper used lenses from Nikon or Canon or any other brand, you will need an adapter with a focal reducer element.  Adapters with these elements are usually expensive and can affect the quality of the image if the glass element inside the adapter is low quality.

 

8 hours ago, WINcon_Gaming said:

Really not much of a business plan mate, this is more of just a hobby that if I get good enough at and am able to produce good quality work then I'd look into monetizing it. Eventually I'll get into aerial drone photography with this this GH4 and a S1000, that's why i don't want to get a higher end camera that weighs more. From what I've seen a GH4 can produce studio quality work given the right operator.

 

Maybe one day I'll invest in a Ursa Mini or something of the sorts, but for now I think a GH4 offers a wide variety of additions that can be scaled logically and relatively affordably to produce better results. 

If you are planning to spend a few thousand on camera gear without any previous skill of filming, editing, producing videos you really should think twice before spending the money.  It takes a couple of years at least to learn  the skills and not everything can be self taught.  I first bought the 5D2 as a hobby but it wasn't until I started working as sort of an intern for an experienced DP at his small film company that I gained the skills and experience to make full use of the camera.  Before I was just shooting anything that interested me for fun but everything looked amateurish no matter how I edited them.  I copied what I saw online and what others were doing but it took someone with experience to explain to me what I was doing wrong and how to get what I wanted.  By the time you have gained the skills necessary the camera you buy now could be obsolete.