Help with NAS + offline back up solution

[Scruffy90]

Im looking to build or buy a NAS for home use, along with an offline back up for the NAS and computers. Also, would like to give everyone their own user accounts along with the ability to set permissions.

 

The NAS will be used for:

- centralized file storage between a few computers at 3 different locations 

- first backup for 5 computers

- plex server ( probably no transcoding since everything will be stored as mp4 for max compatibilities between devices and to save space)

- dont know what else i may be able to use it for but i will maximize its usage

 

It needs to be stupid proof as the other users are not tech savvy. I dont mind tinkering with software like freenas and such if i could minimize issues and compatibility for everyone. It also needs to have a level of redundancy. 

 

The back up needs to be offline ( want to have at least two seperate backups ). And enough to store everything and have extra space ( i have a few tb of data between movies and comp back ups)

 

Budget is ~ $900-1000 for hardware and software. I am open to using premade solutions if they meet all of my needs. 

[Beskamir]

So.... how many TB of backup do you need? 5 computers is not enough data.

 

Thankfully it's 900-1000 USD (right? I mean your in NY, so...) and not CAD so a solid freenas build with 5 HDDs in raidz5 may be possible.

[Scruffy90]

Just now, ElfFriend said:

So.... how many TB of backup do you need? 5 computers is not enough data.

 

Thankfully it's 900-1000 USD (right? I mean your in NY, so...) and not CAD so a solid freenas build with 5 HDDs in raidz5 may be possible.

Sorry about that. ~ 5 TB between the computers and growing (i buy and rip a lot of blurays). And your correct about it being in USD.

[Beskamir]

Alright, I'm not sure about the component prices in the US so I'm probably not going to be able to find anything in particular but I should be able to give you an indication of what you'd want to look for.

 

Basically if you're going to use ZFS (which you should since it's the best) then you'll want ECC RAM. Now in order for ECC RAM to have ECC capabilities you'll also need the motherboard and CPU to have support for ECC RAM. Intel has ECC support clearly listed on their product pages whereas AMD does not have an "ark" where they list everything for every CPU they ever made. That is not to say that AMD based systems cannot have ECC support, it's just harder to figure out if it does. Similarly with server motherboards vs regular motherboards. Where you may be able to find a "regular" motherboard like a gaming motherboard which uses an AMD CPU that has ECC support but it may not be as clearly listed as on a server motherboard. As for the type of CPU you'd want, it doesn't really matter that much with zfs. I have a Pentium and it works fine but had I known AMD CPUs can support ECC I'd have maybe been able to get something better.

 

As for how much RAM you want, (if I recall correctly) it's a min of 8GB with at least 1GB for every 1TB of storage after 2-3TB. So 10TB of storage should have about 16GB of RAM. Personally I have 16GB of RAM with 5 3TB HDDs in raidz5 and it works fine. Oh and I should probably mention you'd want NAS grade HDDs.

 

Once you build and install freenas, then you can set up and use all sorts of tools to achieve what you want. Mainly I use Syncthing to copy files from one system to another, a VPN to access my home network from other parts of the world, transmission to download torrents, and windows explorer to access the files that I store on it. Hadn't used plex since I kind of don't see the point but I know it exists on freenas.

 

Hopefully this is at least somewhat helpful...

[Scruffy90]

On 04/06/2016 at 7:08 PM, ElfFriend said:

Alright, I'm not sure about the component prices in the US so I'm probably not going to be able to find anything in particular but I should be able to give you an indication of what you'd want to look for.

 

Basically if you're going to use ZFS (which you should since it's the best) then you'll want ECC RAM. Now in order for ECC RAM to have ECC capabilities you'll also need the motherboard and CPU to have support for ECC RAM. Intel has ECC support clearly listed on their product pages whereas AMD does not have an "ark" where they list everything for every CPU they ever made. That is not to say that AMD based systems cannot have ECC support, it's just harder to figure out if it does. Similarly with server motherboards vs regular motherboards. Where you may be able to find a "regular" motherboard like a gaming motherboard which uses an AMD CPU that has ECC support but it may not be as clearly listed as on a server motherboard. As for the type of CPU you'd want, it doesn't really matter that much with zfs. I have a Pentium and it works fine but had I known AMD CPUs can support ECC I'd have maybe been able to get something better.

 

As for how much RAM you want, (if I recall correctly) it's a min of 8GB with at least 1GB for every 1TB of storage after 2-3TB. So 10TB of storage should have about 16GB of RAM. Personally I have 16GB of RAM with 5 3TB HDDs in raidz5 and it works fine. Oh and I should probably mention you'd want NAS grade HDDs.

 

Once you build and install freenas, then you can set up and use all sorts of tools to achieve what you want. Mainly I use Syncthing to copy files from one system to another, a VPN to access my home network from other parts of the world, transmission to download torrents, and windows explorer to access the files that I store on it. Hadn't used plex since I kind of don't see the point but I know it exists on freenas.

 

Hopefully this is at least somewhat helpful...

This is an excellent starting point.Thanks!

 

Now I'm wondering what hardware I should get for my specific needs and how to set up the software specific to what I need.

[leadeater]

46 minutes ago, Scruffy90 said:

This is an excellent starting point.Thanks!

 

Now I'm wondering what hardware I should get for my specific needs and how to set up the software specific to what I need.

I'd suggest basing your system around a supermicro motherboard. Doesn't have to be a super fancy or expensive one but at least they are proper server rated and tested so you'll have the best compatibility between the firmware, HBAs and ECC ram etc.

[Beskamir]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

I'd suggest basing your system around a supermicro motherboard. Doesn't have to be a super fancy or expensive one but at least they are proper server rated and tested so you'll have the best compatibility between the firmware, HBAs and ECC ram etc.

Considering that the budget is 900-1000 USD, that might not be an option unless it's being bought used. I got an Asrock server board but had I known that AMD based systems can have ECC ram support I may have gotten a better system for less. Especially considering how difficult getting a server motherboard was in Canada... Had to get one from newegg since none of the Canadian stores carried any. Of course this may be different for someone living in NY. Basically if you can afford a server board then by all means go with a server board. However ecc ram, nas grade hdds, and a decent psu are not dirt cheap.

 

Personally I would start by deciding how HDDs I'd need and their cost. Then try to get a good 80+ gold psu, (unless you really want to go overboard with dual server PSUs, a regular 80+ gold psu should be fine. Just keep in mind that if it fails you won't have a backup psu but so far my server has been fine and it's only got a single 80+ gold psu) 80+ gold since it'll be on 24/7 and energy efficiency might save you money in the long run. Also it'd be advised to get an UPS since freenas doesn't like being shut down improperly. However before I got an UPS, my server shutdown several times without warning and I did not notice any data loss or corruption. Although I did not check every single file so it's possible that something was lost and I just didn't notice.

 

Once you have a HDD and PSU picked out, then decide whether you'll be going AMD or Intel and chose the correct motherboard (socket) and cpu. Then consider how much ram you need (Kingston ecc ram is what I'm using) and make sure to check what ram you're motherboard supports. If it's a server board it should have a nice comparability document with all the ram that it supports, a regular motherboard may also have something like this.

 

Finally all you've got left is the case, in reality I don't think this matters as long as it has enough HDD bays, is large enough for the motherboard, and has spaces for all the other stuff you want to get. Essentially functionality is the main factor and something cheap would do.

 

 

For software, it's not that hard. Just install the plugin and then follow the configuration instructions. I can provide more detail on that if you need it. Also while you should never run a full freenas server on in a vm, for testing/learning purposes, I highly suggest you set one up to see how it works. Basically it'll help you (at least somewhat) know what you're doing before you buy all the hardware.

[bobhays]

I can't right now but if you message me sometime tomorrow I should be able to link you to some great parts I found. The server ram, cpu, and motherboard, case, and psu should come out to 200 dollars. The rest of the money would be spent on hard drives and a back up rig which could consist of any super cheap used computer and some hard drives.

[WigglesTheHoly]

As far as backups I've found a ridiculously cheap option in arq backup and amazon cloud.

[Scruffy90]

What about the prebuilt stuff like synology and such?

[KuJoe]

If you want something simple, cheap, and just works then go get a Synology NAS. Everything you want to do can be done basically out of the box with a Synology NAS and well within your budget.

 

For backups, you can setup scheduled jobs to backup to your NAS using various Synology software or you can setup Cloud Station to sync your data in real time, it can even sync with online service like Dropbox.

https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/6.0/data_backup

https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/6.0/cloud_file_syncing

 

For users, this can be setup inside the web GUI and each user gets their own directory and permissions (and you can even limit the size of their directory if you want).

https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/6.0/management

 

For file storage, it supports FTP, WebDAV, NFS, SAMBA, and other protocols for Windows, Mac, and Linux. It also has a web based file manager and apps for Android.

https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/6.0/file_sharing_management

 

For videos, it has DLNA support and a Video Station feature (web based and an Android app) and you can install Plex with a few clicks of the mouse if you add community repositories to it (transcoding is not good, but you said you didn't need it).

https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/6.0/multimedia

 

One thing to note about the different versions of Synology is that they have 3 main variants (well 4 but the 4th is for enterprise and out of your price range), the plain, J, and + series. The plain serious (no modifier at the end of the name) is the middle ground and mainly for home offices or bigger networks. The J is the "budget" line for home users with usually less RAM and slower CPUs. The + is for small businesses which have more RAM and faster CPUs. I have 2 of the J series for home and they work fine for my needs, if you think you'll need more horsepower then go with the plain or + series.

 

The DS216 model is the 2 bay version and ranges from $170 (J) to $299 (+).

The DS416 model is the 4 bay version and ranges from $289 (J) to $589 (+).

 

Personally, I would go with one of the following builds:

 

DS216+ (only $30 more than the plain model and comes with a Intel Celeron instead of an ARM CPU): $299

2x Seagate Archive HDD v2 ST8000AS0002 8TB: $437

Total: $736 shipped

Total Space: ~8TB (RAID1)

 

DS416j: $289

4x Seagate NAS HDD ST4000VN000 4TB: $563.96

Total: $852.96 shipped

Total Space: ~12TB (RAID5)

 

Of course that pricing is with NAS hard drives which isn't required (I personally don't use them except in data centers) so you can probably get the drives cheaper if you go with consumer models. Hopefully this opens up your options for you.

[Scruffy90]

16 hours ago, KuJoe said:

If you want something simple, cheap, and just works then go get a Synology NAS. Everything you want to do can be done basically out of the box with a Synology NAS and well within your budget.

 

For backups, you can setup scheduled jobs to backup to your NAS using various Synology software or you can setup Cloud Station to sync your data in real time, it can even sync with online service like Dropbox.

https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/6.0/data_backup

https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/6.0/cloud_file_syncing

 

For users, this can be setup inside the web GUI and each user gets their own directory and permissions (and you can even limit the size of their directory if you want).

https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/6.0/management

 

For file storage, it supports FTP, WebDAV, NFS, SAMBA, and other protocols for Windows, Mac, and Linux. It also has a web based file manager and apps for Android.

https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/6.0/file_sharing_management

 

For videos, it has DLNA support and a Video Station feature (web based and an Android app) and you can install Plex with a few clicks of the mouse if you add community repositories to it (transcoding is not good, but you said you didn't need it).

https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/6.0/multimedia

 

One thing to note about the different versions of Synology is that they have 3 main variants (well 4 but the 4th is for enterprise and out of your price range), the plain, J, and + series. The plain serious (no modifier at the end of the name) is the middle ground and mainly for home offices or bigger networks. The J is the "budget" line for home users with usually less RAM and slower CPUs. The + is for small businesses which have more RAM and faster CPUs. I have 2 of the J series for home and they work fine for my needs, if you think you'll need more horsepower then go with the plain or + series.

 

The DS216 model is the 2 bay version and ranges from $170 (J) to $299 (+).

The DS416 model is the 4 bay version and ranges from $289 (J) to $589 (+).

 

Personally, I would go with one of the following builds:

 

DS216+ (only $30 more than the plain model and comes with a Intel Celeron instead of an ARM CPU): $299

2x Seagate Archive HDD v2 ST8000AS0002 8TB: $437

Total: $736 shipped

Total Space: ~8TB (RAID1)

 

DS416j: $289

4x Seagate NAS HDD ST4000VN000 4TB: $563.96

Total: $852.96 shipped

Total Space: ~12TB (RAID5)

 

Of course that pricing is with NAS hard drives which isn't required (I personally don't use them except in data centers) so you can probably get the drives cheaper if you go with consumer models. Hopefully this opens up your options for you.

This is very useful information. I have to see which model best suits my needs. It also saves me the trouble of learning how to set up the software and trying to figure out what hardware to get. How are the security features on the synology devices?

[KuJoe]

1 hour ago, Scruffy90 said:

This is very useful information. I have to see which model best suits my needs. It also saves me the trouble of learning how to set up the software and trying to figure out what hardware to get. How are the security features on the synology devices?

By default the security is good. It has a firewall, Denial of Service protection, brute force prevention, 2 factor authentication, encryption, anti-virus, and other security features you can enable or disable. If you're using it on your home network though then I recommend only forwarding the ports you need and the permissions can be as simple or complex as you want them (I recommend setting group permissions if you have a lot of users).

 

Here's a demo if you want to try out the web GUI: https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/live_demo