Help chooseing youtube camera

[Armalitecontrol]

Looking for advice. I know very little of cameras. So help is much appreciated.

I wanna start doing cooking videos for youtube. My budget is $1,500.

Filming will be 2-7 feet away.

Currently looking at Sony HXRMC2500 and Canon 70D with kit lense.

Any suggestions is much appreciated.

[nickl]

I personally would say get the DSLR, it has a larger sensor, and a greater variety of lenses, and is much smaller.

Depending on how you will be shooting, you might not want to spend the whole 1500 on the camera, but instead get a cheaper body, and invest more in audio/lighting or even lenses.

There is something to be said about the contiguousness of a AIO recording package. It makes it easier to take your camera somewhere, and to not worry about having to carry 20 different things around, and forgetting one. Another benefit is that it comes with a (I assume) shotgun mic, which you would have to buy separately with the DSLR. With an optional shoe adapter thing, the Sony will have the ability to record XLR internally (see below), but I'm not sure about the quality of the preamps, but that shouldn't be a problem for anything normal...

 

Some more info about your current audio/lighting setup, and how you are planning to setup your shooting area, as well as if you are planning on doing more more varied video production/film making would be helpful, and would help you make a better decision for what you will be doing.

 

Also keep in mind that if you do get the 70D, you will have a stills camera that you can use otherwise, not just as a video camera.

 

For more reference, check out @ALwin's posts about the pro's and cons of video cameras vs DSLR's here, and his general film making reference/FAQ thing here. Also check out Simon Cade's DSLRGuide channel on YouTube for DSLR film making tips and his videos for $1000 and $2000 camera setups.

 

I'll write more after I know a bit more, or if I'm feeling like it

[Armalitecontrol]

thanks for the detailed reply. will check all that out. I know nothing of cameras or lighting or that I needed anything else lol. Figured $1500 camera and that equals high quality. Sounds like more to it then that. I just love cooking, and I also do PC builds, and decided be nice to start filming it all. But I want high quality content. Recommendations are welcome, and I can always up my budget to 2k for now. Quality is gonna be a must, saving money would be awesome but not at expense of quality. 

[nickl]

DSLR

• Pros
  • Large Sensor
  • Interchangeable Lenses
  • Its a stills camera, so it will be versatile in that way, if you decide to get into that sort of thing
  • Form Factor
    • Weighs a lot less
    • Smaller
    • Easier to hold in your hand
  • Higher bitrate recording -> maybe better "quality" (less compression)
• Cons
  • Need a separate mic (+money), built in mic is probably pretty bad
  • The audio recording directly from a DSLR might not be too good, and you might want a separate recorder
  • 30min recording limit (not sure how important this is for you)
  • If you want to put it on your shoulder you will need a separate rig
  • No 60p, (unsure how useful this would be for cooking, but for slow mo in other things, it could be useful)

Camcorder

• Pros
  • AIO package, probably could bring only it and maybe a bit else, and shoot comfortably
  • Built in mic
    • Although the quality might not be too good, it's something
  • Shoulder mounted
  • Probably better AF wile recording
    • Potentially unimportant as the 70D's Movie Servo AF, and Dual Pixel CMOS AF features/technologies are supposed to produce better movie AF, IDK about how accurate it is.
    • As you will be doing tech and cooking videos, I'm unsure how important this is, as if you are doing B-roll, you should be pulling focus manually, and in cooking videos, the subject shouldn't be moving to drastically.
• Cons
  • Fixed lens, you can't put another lens on it, even if you wanted to, you get what you get
  • Small sensor
  • Large and Heavy
  • Lower bitrate recording

General

• You probably will want some kind of external mic for either camera
  • DSLR: 3.5mm stereo in, so you will either need an external preamp, or use a mic that has a 3.5mm output, or use an external recorder to 
  • Camcorder: XLR input, so will be able to plug an external XLR mic into it, probably with phantom power (need some kind of shoe adapter thing from sony [money+]) After going over this, I didn't see any way to use anything other than built in mic with the Sony, but you should do some more digging. If what I see is true, you will have to use a separate recorder to use another mic.
  • If you didn't want to use the internal audio recorder in either, you could buy an external audio recorder that you would sync in post
  • Shotgun mics are good and directional, and will allow you to use them in a range of scenarios.
  • Lavalier mics are good as well as they are on you and close to the source of the sound (i.e. your mouth) , but they are often wireless, and probably will cost more than something hardwired.
  • Other mics are available and each has its own pro's and cons
• Lighting
  • Lighting is very important, and depending on the setup/conditions of your kitchen, could make the difference between an OK video and a great one.
  • I'm no expert in lighting, for that I would look around the internet or ask someone else on the forum.

The price of a camera body or equipment is not a be all and end all for quality, and spending more doesn't necessarily mean better. Many beginners will overlook sound and lighting, and it might be a better idea to get a cheaper body, and dedicate more money to lighting or sound.

A tripod would be very important if you don't already have one. I will allow you to put the camera where you want, w/o having to hold it which wouldn't go well with cooking. With tripods, you will have to make sure that it can support 7lb if you plan to get the Sony, or less with the Canon.

One thing that you have to think about more than equipment, is what you will be filming. I'm not trying to be rude, or to put you down, but there are probably other people on YouTube making the same food and showing off similar tech, and it is up to you (not the equipment) to make your videos stand out through a unique style, look, format, etc., or to use your personality to make your videos special and worthwhile to both make and watch. Case in point: Linus' original videos. If you look at his original videos, if you look at the video quality, it wasn't anything as good as you would get with either of the cameras you are looking at there, and the audio isn't anything special, yet being one of the first people to make this type of content, and since his personality and the ideas behind the videos are interesting, he gathered a following. Even today, if you took someone else and put them in Linus' place, the channel wouldn't be the same, both because of Linus' personality and the ideas that he has.

Depending on how you are planning to make your videos, especially for cooking, having more than one camera angle would be helpful, and I might even say that you would downgrade your camera, but potentially get 2 cheap ones... for example, you could get 2x T5 or T5i's and have a few hundred dollars for audio and lighting, which should have you covered. Just a thought., and you'll have to see if it would be useful vs a 70D. One thing to note is that the 70D has its all i-frame compression method which should be better, as more data is being recorded, while the T5(i) have lower bitrate recording. I'm unsure how important this is, but you might take it into account. 

A lot of this is mirrored with more in ALwin's DSLR/Video Camera post that I mentioned before. Feel free to ask any questions you have :).

[Klerk]

If you're going to get the dslr make sure you get an external mic since all dslr's even the high end ones have shitty built-in mics. Also you might wanna get a prime lens. Canon has a lot of cheap prime lenses like the 50mm f1.8. There are also the 24mm f2.8 and 40mm f2.8. A good glass will always yield better image quality than getting a more expensive body. You can also downgrade your camera body to the 760d if you want to save some money.

[ALwin]

Whichever camera you choose, make sure it either comes with or you need to buy one separately: an AC adapter.

 

Almost all video cameras come with an AC adapter.

With HDSLR cameras you are most likely to get a battery and a charger, no AC adapter for continuous power.

 

I don't know what kind of dishes you will cook for your videos, but some cuisines can take time to prepare so you will be recording lots of footage that you will have to cut and edit later into the length you want.  You don't want people to have to watch/wait along with you while certain parts of the cooking process is "pending" the completion of some other thing.  So it is better to have an AC adapter to power the camera continuously rather than having to switch out batteries every so often.

 

If you watch some cooking shows on TV you should notice that the host/chef has one or two copies (a finished version and perhaps an intermediate version) of the dish being made for that show so that the audience doesn't have to wait.  The host/chef just swaps it out or says OK while this one is going into the oven to cook for ## minutes, we have this one already at this stage.

 

Similar thing when you consider the continuous recording limits of cameras.

 

Video cameras will most likely record until either the battery runs out (if they are not on AC power) or memory card becomes full, whichever comes first.

 

Most HDSLR cameras have a recording limit due to power saving features, over heating, memory card file sizes restrictions, etc.  Some don't, so look for models which doesn't have a limit.  You really don't want to have to pause, go over to the camera and start recording again during a critical point in the cooking process.

[ALwin]

As for audio:

• HDSLRs require a good external mic.  The internal mics are too small and because they are placed within the same camera body will also pick up some of the camera's internal mechanical noises.
• Camcorder microphones are somewhat better than HDSLR microphones.

But here is what I would recommend for your audio setup, regardless of camera you choose.  You are going to need TWO microphones:

• A directional mic you can mount on camera for sound and ambiance pick up.
• A clip on mic you can attach under your clothes for your voice.  I have no idea if you plan to have someone operate the camera while you cook or you are doing everything yourself, however the clip on mic is essential as you move around the kitchen.  It will be able to pick up audio better than the on camera mic as you move around, changing your position relative to the camera.
• And because you are using two mics, you will have to get either an external sound recorder or a preamp with two mic inputs that mixes the sound into your camera.

Here are some hardware I would recommend for location sound (keeping in mind your budget):

Recorder: Zoom H4n or a Beachtek

Shotgun mic: Azden SGM X-1 or a Rode VideoMic (if you use the Beachtek mixer)

Clip on mic: RodeLink with an XLR adapter

[Armalitecontrol]

7 hours ago, ALwin said:

As for audio:

• HDSLRs require a good external mic.  The internal mics are too small and because they are placed within the same camera body will also pick up some of the camera's internal mechanical noises.
• Camcorder microphones are somewhat better than HDSLR microphones.

But here is what I would recommend for your audio setup, regardless of camera you choose.  You are going to need TWO microphones:

• A directional mic you can mount on camera for sound and ambiance pick up.
• A clip on mic you can attach under your clothes for your voice.  I have no idea if you plan to have someone operate the camera while you cook or you are doing everything yourself, however the clip on mic is essential as you move around the kitchen.  It will be able to pick up audio better than the on camera mic as you move around, changing your position relative to the camera.
• And because you are using two mics, you will have to get either an external sound recorder or a preamp with two mic inputs that mixes the sound into your camera.

Here are some hardware I would recommend for location sound (keeping in mind your budget):

Recorder: Zoom H4n or a Beachtek

Shotgun mic: Azden SGM X-1 or a Rode VideoMic (if you use the Beachtek mixer)

Clip on mic: RodeLink with an XLR adapter

 Thanks will go with the H4n, and the Rodelink. Found a studio set on ebay for lighting. Now just leaves camera. Will be going DSLR for sure. It's a debate between Canon 70d, T6s, and T6i video creator kit.

[nickl]

The 70D is nice, as it has higher bitrate recording, but it is ~$1000, and the ACK-E6 AC adapter is ~$180 from Canon, ~$120 from Amazon, although knock offs are much cheaper.

The T6s is a good option, and its top screen and other dial things, along with their HDR feature, which claims to reduce highlight clipping and black crushing. Its better auto focus system claims to produce accurate focusing, which may be true. At about ~$850 it would be a good choice.

The T6i  is also good, and at ~$750, it is cheaper than the T6s. It still boasts the new HDR video thing, but doesn't have the newer auto focus system that may be useful for you. Nor does it have the extra LCD in the top, or another dial on the back, but I'm unsure how useful the dial and screen would be for you, in this scenario at least, as you won't be next to the camera very often anyway. It might be worth the ~$100 savings in order to get better lights or audio stuff, but that's up to you.

As far as I could tell from the Canon website, the T6s and T6i don't have compatible adapters yet, or maybe they aren't listed on the website yet and share the same ACK-E8 ($85) from previous T_i series cameras, I don't know.I'd like to ask @ALwin and yourself (@Armalitecontrol) if you should/why you have discounted cheaper options like the T5i? Although they are older, they should have similar capabilities and be considerably cheaper, meaning more money for other stuff, right? Also, buying refurbished from Canon probably wouldn't be a mistake, and could save you some money (T6i: $600, T6s: $679, T5i: $480). Buying kits is a good way to get lower prices for lenses and bodies together. One thing to keep in mind about the video creator kit is that it doesn't include an AC power adapter, which you would have to buy separately. The kits hat you were looking at also do have an SD card, which you do need, so that is a plus, but they are relatively cheap anyway (~$15 on Amazon).

The Rode VideoMic Pro that is included in the video creation kit does have a 3.5mm line out, which you could plug into the H4n, with a 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter plug thing (really cheap and common).

For the lighting set, what does it have in it? (Personally I'd run it past ALwin ).

Note: All of the prices for the cameras are for body only, meaning you will have to get a separate lens (or a kit). Also all prices are from the Canon Store, which will be more expensive than Amazon or B&H

[ALwin]

With all HDSLR cameras, the AC adapter is a separate accessory.  Nikon and Canon has never included an AC power supply as part of the kit for any of their DSLRs, as far as I can tell.

 

As for the cameras, all current Canon, Nikon and Sony cameras are capable of 1080p 24, 25 and 30fps.  Which is more than enough for over 90% of film making.  Just look for some online reviews and video samples for the cameras you are interested in buying.

 

If I were you, I'd be slightly less concerned about specific cameras and think more about how I want to produce the cooking show.  It sounds like you are going to be filming at home instead of a studio, perhaps working alone or have a friend help you out with the camera.

 

I'm a bit tired of giving camera advice, you can read about some of the things to consider in the guides I wrote, @nickl mentioned them to you in his comments and I have them in my signature.  Instead let me give you some production advice.

 

Here are the things I would consider (along with my advice as someone who has experience in video production) if I were producing a cooking show:

 

1. I assume you are going to be filming in your kitchen.  I have no idea what the layout of your kitchen is, but I do hope it has a central island counter which has a stove and sink.  If you look at cooking shows on TV you hardly ever see the host/chef using a stove that is placed against a wall (as most home kitchens are) because it would mean the host/chef has to be facing away from the camera.

 

If your kitchen has a central island counter, but without a stove then I recommend you get a portable stove/hotplate so that while you cook you can also be facing the camera.  As you are obviously not going to be live broadcasting the show (at least I think you aren't) you do not need to have copies of the same dish at various stages of the cooking/preparation process.  Just film the entire thing, from start to finish and then edit, cut, splice, in post.  Though I would recommend having all the ingredients of the recipe and utensils already prepared and organized on the counter before filming.  Don't resort to going to the fridge or looking inside shopping bags, drawers for ingredients during the filming process.  You want whoever watches the show to think that whatever you are cooking looks easy enough for them to make, regardless of how many ingredients or how long it takes to cook.  Observe how professional cooking shows are done and take lessons from how they do it.  If you observe, all of those shows have the same basic formulas.  The difference lies in how the host/chef presents the show.

 

So what to do if your kitchen doesn't have a central island counter?  In that case, instead of trying to film a frontal view, place the camera and aim it down towards the stoves from an angle above.  Not directly above the stove, else the water vapor and other fumes from cooking will cover the camera and it can get damaged.  OR set up a nice sturdy table in lieu of a central island counter with a portable stove/hotplate.

 

2. For the camera, in this case am hesitant to recommend camera like a Canon, Nikon, Sony DSLR.  It might actually be better to use a MFT camera like a Panasonic or a camcorder.  Because of the wider DOF inherent with using smaller sensor cameras.  With larger sensor cameras like a Canon 70D or Nikon D3300 you will have step down the aperture anyway to get a nice thick DOF, because you do NOT want to rely on the camera's Auto Focus system, especially if you are working solo.  So better to use a narrow aperture and prefocus the lens so that it covers the region you will be moving around in the kitchen within an acceptable area of focus/sharpness.  Unless I have a someone else working as a camera operator, I would keep the camera in a fixed position (no panning, tilting motion) so use a nice focal length and have a nice composition that covers enough of the kitchen as needed.

 

It would even be better if you had two cameras, one frontal view so people can see your face when you introduce the show and provide some info whilst looking into the camera.  And a second camera from a high angle so that people can see what goes into the pots/pans, what gets cut on the cutting board, etc.

 

3. See image below for an audio setup I think would be nice for you to use. (BeachTek preamp/mixer mounted and attached to camera, Rode videomic feeding ambient sound into the mixer, wireless lav receiver also feeding audio to the mixer)  The video mic, as it will always remain on camera, will mainly be used to record ambient noise.  Because the videomic is a short shotgun and you are going to be at least 2-3 meters away from the camera and as you will be moving about in the kitchen, it will not be a good idea to use it primarily to record your voice.  That's where a wireless lav/clip on mic that is hidden underneath your shirt will come it, as it will always remain a constant distance away from your mouth as you are talking.

[ALwin]

Now, that's not the only way you can film the show, but what I wrote previously may be one of the better ideas if you are working solo.  If you had extra people to help you with the camera work, here are some examples of cooking videos on Youtube.

 

Nearly the entire first half where the guy is preparing the dish consists of closeup or zoomed in shots.  Obviously this can also be done with multiple cameras placed in different locations while filming, but I think having 1-2 people to help operate the camera while you cook is better.

 

 

Here is an example where the stove is placed against the wall, but notice that the main tool (the waffle iron) is in front of the camera. And when the guy turns to heat something on the stove he doesn't turn his back or block the view of the stove.

 

 

Here's an example where the camera comes in close and personal with movement. Obviously this requires a camera operator.

 

 

You can still produce a show even if the stove is placed on the side

 

 

[ALwin]

And of course, if you're a cute kid it doesn't matter how amateurish the camera operation appears.

 

 

[ALwin]

Oh and back stepping a bit to talk about audio again.

 

If you are not going to be showing your face during the entire process of preparation and cooking, you can add the voice with the explanations of the cooking process later in post processing as you cut and edit the video.  As long as people do not see your face as you talk, especially if they see your mouth moving.  One of the things that can put off an audience is where mouth movement and voice are not in sync.

 

None of what I said is rocket science.  It is all based on common sense, a bit of observation (well, having a mother who taught cooking classes for a while helped) and giving a great deal of thought into how you want to produce a show.

[Armalitecontrol]

3 hours ago, ALwin said:

Oh and back stepping a bit to talk about audio again.

 

If you are not going to be showing your face during the entire process of preparation and cooking, you can add the voice with the explanations of the cooking process later in post processing as you cut and edit the video.  As long as people do not see your face as you talk, especially if they see your mouth moving.  One of the things that can put off an audience is where mouth movement and voice are not in sync.

 

None of what I said is rocket science.  It is all based on common sense, a bit of observation (well, having a mother who taught cooking classes for a while helped) and giving a great deal of thought into how you want to produce a show.

Thanks for all the replies and advice, I will be having help during filming. My stove is against wall. the kitchen is huge and there is a central island. I been reviewing your content page, trying to learn as much as possible. My current Video device is a Sony HDR-CX440 I recorded in both standard HD and high quality both times when I put Sd card in PC to review video, I felt like I was watching a very old movie. The image quality was very bad. And of course sound was to. I could even see the dots in the image, which I dislike. This was viewed on a 1440p monitor, if that could have made a difference I do not know. Anyways once again, thank you for all the information. 

[Armalitecontrol]

4 hours ago, nickl said:

The 70D is nice, as it has higher bitrate recording, but it is ~$1000, and the ACK-E6 AC adapter is ~$180 from Canon, ~$120 from Amazon, although knock offs are much cheaper.

The T6s is a good option, and its top screen and other dial things, along with their HDR feature, which claims to reduce highlight clipping and black crushing. Its better auto focus system claims to produce accurate focusing, which may be true. At about ~$850 it would be a good choice.

The T6i  is also good, and at ~$750, it is cheaper than the T6s. It still boasts the new HDR video thing, but doesn't have the newer auto focus system that may be useful for you. Nor does it have the extra LCD in the top, or another dial on the back, but I'm unsure how useful the dial and screen would be for you, in this scenario at least, as you won't be next to the camera very often anyway. It might be worth the ~$100 savings in order to get better lights or audio stuff, but that's up to you.

As far as I could tell from the Canon website, the T6s and T6i don't have compatible adapters yet, or maybe they aren't listed on the website yet and share the same ACK-E8 ($85) from previous T_i series cameras, I don't know.I'd like to ask @ALwin and yourself (@Armalitecontrol) if you should/why you have discounted cheaper options like the T5i? Although they are older, they should have similar capabilities and be considerably cheaper, meaning more money for other stuff, right? Also, buying refurbished from Canon probably wouldn't be a mistake, and could save you some money (T6i: $600, T6s: $679, T5i: $480). Buying kits is a good way to get lower prices for lenses and bodies together. One thing to keep in mind about the video creator kit is that it doesn't include an AC power adapter, which you would have to buy separately. The kits hat you were looking at also do have an SD card, which you do need, so that is a plus, but they are relatively cheap anyway (~$15 on Amazon).

The Rode VideoMic Pro that is included in the video creation kit does have a 3.5mm line out, which you could plug into the H4n, with a 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter plug thing (really cheap and common).

For the lighting set, what does it have in it? (Personally I'd run it past ALwin ).

Note: All of the prices for the cameras are for body only, meaning you will have to get a separate lens (or a kit). Also all prices are from the Canon Store, which will be more expensive than Amazon or B&H

Just watched a Youtube video comparing the auto focus of 70d, t6s, and t6i. The 70D did the best of course. But the T6i did a great job as well with STM lens. Both t6s and t6i struggled with non stm lens. So I've decided to buy the Video Creator T6i kit with extras from Amazon. For $799 I will be getting the camera, 18-55mm stm lens, Rode VIDEOMIC GO, 32GB SD Card Class 10 + Memory Card, Bag and Battery. Lighting is Square Perfect 2816 Professional Quality 2000 Watt Photography and Digital Video Continuous Light Kit with 2 Light Stands $140 amazon. And audio will be H4N. See how it goes from there. Thanks for all the help from both of y'all.

PS: For anyone reading this that is interested, the video I watched on Autofocus is here 

 

[nickl]

No problem! Hope it all goes well, and I'd like to see a finished product

[Armalitecontrol]

7 minutes ago, nickl said:

No problem! Hope it all goes well, and I'd like to see a finished product

will post a link here. Might be 30-days. Cause will have to learn how these items work, and to do basic video editing lol.  But will upload for sure

[nickl]

As ALwin previously mentioned, you shouldn't be relying on the AF of your cameras. Since you will be shooting in a situation with enough light (kitchens tend to be pretty bright, and with 2 soft box kits, you should have plenty of light), you probably should close your aperture enough to where there is a pretty wide depth of field (the distance between the closest and farthest "acceptable" focus distances), and so you should have enough leeway to move reasonably far towards and away from the camera, so that you can just manually focus and set and forget, or have your friend focus if you want to use a narrower DOF, which due to the amount of light, shouldn't be needed. Either way, you shouldn't rely on AF as its not always that reliable, but overall, I think you made a good choice for which camera to get.

For post, I would say checking out DaVinci Resolve 12 (Lite) Beta, which is a fully featured editor, as well as a very popular and widely used piece of software for color correction, which should be done in a situation like this for a better final product. There are lots of tutorials online about color grading and correcting.

[Armalitecontrol]

10 hours ago, nickl said:

As ALwin previously mentioned, you shouldn't be relying on the AF of your cameras. Since you will be shooting in a situation with enough light (kitchens tend to be pretty bright, and with 2 soft box kits, you should have plenty of light), you probably should close your aperture enough to where there is a pretty wide depth of field (the distance between the closest and farthest "acceptable" focus distances), and so you should have enough leeway to move reasonably far towards and away from the camera, so that you can just manually focus and set and forget, or have your friend focus if you want to use a narrower DOF, which due to the amount of light, shouldn't be needed. Either way, you shouldn't rely on AF as its not always that reliable, but overall, I think you made a good choice for which camera to get.

For post, I would say checking out DaVinci Resolve 12 (Lite) Beta, which is a fully featured editor, as well as a very popular and widely used piece of software for color correction, which should be done in a situation like this for a better final product. There are lots of tutorials online about color grading and correcting.

thanks. I was thinking might need auto focus for one project of mine, being a PC build. I sold my current setup this week, with the 2-980ti hybrids. Cause the black hoses look ugly, and the 5820k is only 28 lanes. So my new build being completely custom. Except for color, and parts gonna be copying this guys rig listed below. And felt with all that work was worth doing a time lapse of the building process.Thanks again for the info.