CAD workstation upgrade

[nerdyrcdriver]

Hey guys,

 

So my boss (also the president of the company) constantly has issues with his computer. I don't think they are software and he is just using the issues as an excuse to justify the cost to his wife. Once he gets a new computer his current one will be reconfigured and set up somewhere else. 

 

Here is his current setup:

 

Motherboard: Asus Sabertooth 

GPU: Nvidia Quadro k5000 (4gb)

RAM: 32gb DDR3 

CPU: Intel Core i7 3960x (If I remember correctly)

Storage: 120gb corsair ssd and another hdd in some weird config. It shows local disk C as around 500gb and a few other smaller drives even though nothing else is physically installed. I think this is the main problem.

 

He either wants to build a new workstation or buy an hp workstation. Any thoughts? The advantage of buying HP is that he would put it under some sort of support plan we have for the regular office computers we have. Not like it matters because I usually end up getting stuck fixing them. We rarely have hardware issues anyway. Mostly software/user error.

 

Money doesn't seem to be an issue. If it is something super overbuilt then it will be a good computer in 5 years. Definitely needs an SSD (I was thinking an intel pci one) and a decent graphics card. I do have spare quadro k4000 cards that I could install to his current system when it is moved to be a workstation elsewhere, so the k5000 could potentially move to the next system. 

 

His system doesn't need a ton of local storage because all of the important stuff is stored on the server or done on his pc (for performance) then transferred back to the server. 

 

With some of the more complex assemblies in solidworks (especially when textures are applied and there is theoretical physics testing) he has managed to use up all of his gpu ram and close to all of his system ram. 

 

[kkpatel87]

-snip-

 

If you arent used to building workstations, i would not do it. The reason is pre-built workstations are certified and validated through engineering processes, not just slapping some parts together. In CAD/CAM/CAE workstations, drivers and poor configuration are the main cause of slow downs.

 

Not on a comment on you per say but a generic warning lol.

 

That being said, you will probably have to max out the graphics card to a MX000 series Quadro...I have a M6000 and it is just awesome.

[Streetguru]

Hey guys,

Dunno if you really need CUDA, the Firepro cards seem to be a lot better for the money

 

PCI-e SSDs aren't worth it, just buy more normal SSD storage, you can get 1TB of 500/500 r/w SSDs compared to half that of the PCI-e SSDs, unless you realllllyyyyy need 1gbps transfer rates, which I'd doubt a bit

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/mG7YMp

Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/mG7YMp/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor  ($374.99 @ SuperBiiz)

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($29.99 @ Amazon)

Motherboard: Asus X99-A/USB 3.1 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($249.99 @ Amazon)

Memory: Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  ($69.99 @ Adorama)

Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($49.98 @ OutletPC)

Video Card: AMD FirePro W7100 8GB Video Card  ($619.99 @ B&H)

Case: Cooler Master HAF XB EVO ATX Desktop Case  ($96.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Power Supply: Rosewill 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($89.89 @ OutletPC)

Total: $1581.81

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-12 23:24 EST-0500

[nerdyrcdriver]

If you arent used to building workstations, i would not do it. The reason is pre-built workstations are certified and validated through engineering processes, not just slapping some parts together. In CAD/CAM/CAE workstations, drivers and poor configuration are the main cause of slow downs.

 

Not on a comment on you per say but a generic warning lol.

 

That being said, you will probably have to max out the graphics card to a MX000 series Quadro...I have a M6000 and it is just awesome.

I am definitely not used to configuring work stations which is why I am referring to the forum. One of the other workstations is a more mid range build (i5, 16gb ram, 120gb ssd, k3500 gpu) and I could not for the life of me upgrade it to the k4000 successfully. It still runs great with the k3500 though (even better than my bosses current computer with all the crap he has installed).

 

Meanwhile the next comment down from yours is recommending a $600 fire pro card. I don't know why but my boss is strictly intel and nvidia (or integrated for the office computers) with everything we have now. 

[nerdyrcdriver]

Dunno if you really need CUDA, the Firepro cards seem to be a lot better for the money

 

PCI-e SSDs aren't worth it, just buy more normal SSD storage, you can get 1TB of 500/500 r/w SSDs compared to half that of the PCI-e SSDs, unless you realllllyyyyy need 1gbps transfer rates, which I'd doubt a bit

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/mG7YMp

Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/mG7YMp/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor  ($374.99 @ SuperBiiz)

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($29.99 @ Amazon)

Motherboard: Asus X99-A/USB 3.1 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($249.99 @ Amazon)

Memory: Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  ($69.99 @ Adorama)

Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($49.98 @ OutletPC)

Video Card: AMD FirePro W7100 8GB Video Card  ($619.99 @ B&H)

Case: Cooler Master HAF XB EVO ATX Desktop Case  ($96.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Power Supply: Rosewill 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($89.89 @ OutletPC)

Total: $1581.81

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-12 23:24 EST-0500

 

Liking the price of the fire pro, but thats a huge price difference from a competing nvidia card. Honestly he probably doesn't need a pci ssd since most of the work is done directly on the server anyway. He will want at least 32gb of ram though. I was using his current workstation earlier trying to solve an outlook issue (does it ever work?) and he was sitting around 12gb of ram being used with his usual workload open. The system idles (nothing open but with background processes running) around 3.8-4.2gb of ram being used since he has so many programs installed doing stuff in the background. I am almost tempted to put a 60gb ssd in and limit him to that so he keeps it nice and clean so I don't have to deal with all of his random software causing issues. 

 

Edit: also wouldn't be able to use the HAF XB even though I loved it when I first saw a video about it. His pc sits on the floor under his desk and that case would take up way too much room. No good place to put it on the desk either. It is some fancy ikea desk that would look great if wireless monitors (and power) were a realistic thing.

[Mad Max]

Solidworks tends to be picky about hardware utilization. Here is the spec for the updated version of my current rig that I run Solidworks on daily.  It will easily handle large assemblies and moderately heavy FEA tasks. 

 

 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Qjpm6h

Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Qjpm6h/by_merchant/

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-5960X 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor  ($999.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X61 106.1 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($128.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Motherboard: MSI X99A SLI PLUS ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($224.99 @ Amazon) 

Memory: Kingston Savage 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($533.00 @ Mac Mall) 

Storage: Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($328.95 @ SuperBiiz) 

Video Card: AMD FirePro W7100 8GB Video Card  ($619.99 @ B&H) 

Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($109.99 @ NCIX US) 

Power Supply: SeaSonic 660W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($126.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Total: $3072.89

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-13 13:41 EST-0500

[nerdyrcdriver]

 

Solidworks tends to be picky about hardware utilization. Here is the spec for the updated version of my current rig that I run Solidworks on daily.  It will easily handle large assemblies and moderately heavy FEA tasks. 

 

 

How is that fire pro vs a quadro? I am a little hesitant showing him a suggested list with a card that cost a little over 1/4th of his current one. 

[techguru]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-2660 V3 2.6GHz 10-Core Processor  ($1359.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($63.99 @ Newegg) 

Motherboard: ASRock X99 WS-E EATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($429.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($144.99 @ Newegg) 

Storage: Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($328.95 @ SuperBiiz) 

Video Card: PNY Quadro M5000 8GB Video Card  ($1999.00 @ Amazon) 

Case: Corsair 760T White V2 ATX Full Tower Case  ($149.99 @ Micro Center) 

Power Supply: SeaSonic 660W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($126.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Total: $4603.89

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-13 18:56 EST-0500

 

plus a big monitor and maybe a 10gbit ethernet adapter

[nerdyrcdriver]

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-2660 V3 2.6GHz 10-Core Processor  ($1359.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($63.99 @ Newegg) 

Motherboard: ASRock X99 WS-E EATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($429.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($144.99 @ Newegg) 

Storage: Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($328.95 @ SuperBiiz) 

Video Card: PNY Quadro M5000 8GB Video Card  ($1999.00 @ Amazon) 

Case: Corsair 760T White V2 ATX Full Tower Case  ($149.99 @ Micro Center) 

Power Supply: SeaSonic 660W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($126.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Total: $4603.89

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-13 18:56 EST-0500

 

plus a big monitor and maybe a 10gbit ethernet adapter

 

 

He already has a nice big Dell monitor and a slightly smaller asus pro art series monitor for higher resolution stuff. No 10gb ethernet set up yet and I think our server would probably severely bottleneck that anyway. Our whole network is set up in a super dumb way and I need to stay late or show up early tomorrow or Friday to get it nice before I go back to school. Between the 3 companies that he now runs there are about 20 employees. That is part of me setting up the network better. The 3rd company really needs an entirely separate network to keep it separate from the other two companies documents. 

[techguru]

He already has a nice big Dell monitor and a slightly smaller asus pro art series monitor for higher resolution stuff. No 10gb ethernet set up yet and I think our server would probably severely bottleneck that anyway. Our whole network is set up in a super dumb way and I need to stay late or show up early tomorrow or Friday to get it nice before I go back to school. Between the 3 companies that he now runs there are about 20 employees. That is part of me setting up the network better. The 3rd company really needs an entirely separate network to keep it separate from the other two companies documents. 

if you guys are transferring lots of data to and from your storage server..a 10gbit network would help you guys out a fair bit

[nerdyrcdriver]

if you guys are transferring lots of data to and from your storage server..a 10gbit network would help you guys out a fair bit

I know, but that is all hopes and dreams right now. Within the next 5 years we would like to move to our own building instead of staying in the crappy old factory we are in now. There is a possibility of my boss designing a building and then we would put in a 10gbit network in key places. Plus by then hopefully switches and stuff will be cheaper by then. There are some severe bottlenecks in our system right now that need to be fixed like 1 standard cat5 cable going from our shop (where the internet comes in and a few computers are) to our office where the server and most of the computers are. The list of random problems just goes on and on. My bosses computer was sitting at 12gb ram used and the cpu pinned at 100% by explorer.exe. Changing some start menu settings, restarting, then setting them back to default fixed it for now. 

 

I am not really an IT guy and my major is electrical engineering technology (but I love mechanical stuff and machining too) and I just happen to be okay at doing basic IT stuff. We have a real IT person on call (contracted support company) but it is SUPER expensive to have them come in for anything. 

[brob]

... and another hdd in some weird config. It shows local disk C as around 500gb and a few other smaller drives even though nothing else is physically installed. I think this is the main problem.

 

He either wants to build a new workstation or buy an hp workstation. Any thoughts? The advantage of buying HP is that he would put it under some sort of support plan we have for the regular office computers we have. Not like it matters because I usually end up getting stuck fixing them. We rarely have hardware issues anyway. Mostly software/user error.

...

 

Likely the hdd has multiple volumes/partitions defined.

 

While cost is usually a little higher, buying pre-built workstations from a company like HP is generally the way to go.

 

But if one wants a little better/different system, something like the following could be considered. It has a single 1TB ssd to keep things simple. If that is more storage than needed, I would replace it with a 512GB 950 Pro M.2(M) ssd. About the same cost, significantly better performance (up to 32Gb/s).

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-2660 V3 2.6GHz 10-Core Processor  ($1359.99 @ SuperBiiz)

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($63.99 @ Newegg)

Motherboard: Asus X99-M WS Micro ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($263.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Memory: Kingston 64GB (4 x 16GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory  ($424.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($345.44 @ Amazon)

Video Card: NVIDIA Quadro M4000 8GB Video Card  ($859.00 @ Newegg)

Case: Fractal Design Define Mini MicroATX Mini Tower Case  ($99.99 @ NCIX US)

Power Supply: EVGA 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($69.99 @ Amazon)

Total: $3487.38

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-13 20:18 EST-0500

[nerdyrcdriver]

Likely the hdd has multiple volumes/partitions defined.

 

While cost is usually a little higher, buying pre-built workstations from a company like HP is generally the way to go.

 

But if one wants a little better/different system, something like the following could be considered. It has a single 1TB ssd to keep things simple. If that is more storage than needed, I would replace it with a 512GB 950 Pro M.2(M) ssd. About the same cost, significantly better performance (up to 32Gb/s).

 

 

Def. going for performance over storage capacity. Most of our systems would have more than enough storage with a 120gb ssd since just about everything is stored on the server which is backed up daily to a nas which is backed up nightly to some cloud account or something.

 

Most of the workstations I have looked at have everything except for a graphics card which we could put in no problem. He just likes to build all of his own computers (or have me do it) when it comes to the higher end stuff. HP doesn't seem to have a config thing on their workstation site. You just kind of browse through the options, find one close, see the starting price and a list of options without the cost to upgrade. I hate how expensive things always want you to get a quote and then you get some marketing person contacting you every day. I get that those types of things are done in lower volumes and the price changes, especially if they are building a bunch for you, but they could at least give a rough estimate on the site. 

[brob]

Def. going for performance over storage capacity. Most of our systems would have more than enough storage with a 120gb ssd since just about everything is stored on the server which is backed up daily to a nas which is backed up nightly to some cloud account or something.

 

Most of the workstations I have looked at have everything except for a graphics card which we could put in no problem. He just likes to build all of his own computers (or have me do it) when it comes to the higher end stuff. HP doesn't seem to have a config thing on their workstation site. You just kind of browse through the options, find one close, see the starting price and a list of options without the cost to upgrade. I hate how expensive things always want you to get a quote and then you get some marketing person contacting you every day. I get that those types of things are done in lower volumes and the price changes, especially if they are building a bunch for you, but they could at least give a rough estimate on the site. 

 

Something like Samsung MZ-V5P256BW would provide great performance.

 

Likely HP is reluctant to give an online estimate because they have numerous price lists and pricing agreements in play. But I know what you mean. It is really frustrating not being able to at least figure out what ballpark one is in without getting on a salesperson's call list.

[nerdyrcdriver]

Something like Samsung MZ-V5P256BW would provide great performance.

 

Likely HP is reluctant to give an online estimate because they have numerous price lists and pricing agreements in play. But I know what you mean. It is really frustrating not being able to at least figure out what ballpark one is in without getting on a salesperson's call list.

He would likely want something around 500gb since he is currently using about 260gb on his C drive.

 

He has been drooling over the nvidia k2 grid for a while but finally realized that it wouldn't be worth it for our company to invest in vs building cad stations. Most of them don't have to be that good anyway. An i5, pretty much any card from the last few years, and 8gb of ram is more than enough for most of the workstations. One of our most reliable ones is one that I fixed up a while ago. It has a core 2 quad, 8gb ddr2, and a quadro k4000. Runs like a champ once the program you want to use opens up. It still runs an old 7200rpm hdd. 

[Streetguru]

He would likely want something around 500gb since he is currently using about 260gb on his C drive.

I think AMD announced something for using a single Firepro card across multiple PCs as well, I can't find the article though, or did you still really need CUDA?

[nerdyrcdriver]

I think AMD announced something for using a single Firepro card across multiple PCs as well, I can't find the article though, or did you still really need CUDA?

Doubt we actually need CUDA for solidworks. Through research I have seen many workstations made for solidworks running the fire pro cards. 

 

For a large company the grid idea is cool, but it would be an insane cost for us to get one and set it up in our office. For a much lower price we could build several of the workstation configs listed above. 

[Streetguru]

Doubt we actually need CUDA for solidworks. Through research I have seen many workstations made for solidworks running the fire pro cards.

Well, the W7100 may yet be your best bet, and I think it was 200 less than that quadro posted above for the same ammount of VRAM, not sure on performance

 

Here's the info from AMD's website, it should be relatively straight forward, lets you share a single or probably multiple GPUs from one PC to others I think

Not sure if you need the "Sky" branded cards to do it

 

http://www.amd.com/en-us/solutions/professional/virtualization

"

The AMD Multiuser GPU works with hypervisors to provide ease of installation. IT managers and system administrators setting up a central server within an enterprise environment can easily implement and configure the AMD Multiuser GPU with a hypervisor driver no bigger than a typical word processing document. The same graphics driver used for local workstations equipped with AMD FirePro™ graphics cards can be installed and used in this virtualized environment.

AMD Multiuser GPU is designed to work on environments using VMWare vSphere/ESXi 5.5 and up, with support for remote protocols such as Horizon View, Citrix Xen Desktop, Teradici Workstation Host Software, and others."

http://fireprographics.com/vdi/solutions/virtualized/

 

[nerdyrcdriver]

 

Well, the W7100 may yet be your best bet, and I think it was 200 less than that quadro posted above for the same ammount of VRAM, not sure on performance

 

Here's the info from AMD's website, it should be relatively straight forward, lets you share a single or probably multiple GPUs from one PC to others I think

Not sure if you need the "Sky" branded cards to do it

 

http://www.amd.com/en-us/solutions/professional/virtualization

"

The AMD Multiuser GPU works with hypervisors to provide ease of installation. IT managers and system administrators setting up a central server within an enterprise environment can easily implement and configure the AMD Multiuser GPU with a hypervisor driver no bigger than a typical word processing document. The same graphics driver used for local workstations equipped with AMD FirePro™ graphics cards can be installed and used in this virtualized environment.

AMD Multiuser GPU is designed to work on environments using VMWare vSphere/ESXi 5.5 and up, with support for remote protocols such as Horizon View, Citrix Xen Desktop, Teradici Workstation Host Software, and others."

http://fireprographics.com/vdi/solutions/virtualized/

 

 

 

Thanks for getting this info for me! I will make sure to pass it along to him and see if it fits his vision. Unfortunately tomorrow is my last day at work until May when I get back from school for the summer. With a 3rd company being built my list of random IT stuff will surely be higher than I would like. Unless they do what I suggested and hire a college student from one of the more local colleges (mine is 400 miles away) to do the IT side of things. But my boss is picky about security and trusts me and our contracted IT person to do this stuff. I foresee many tech support calls and google searches in my future. 

[Mad Max]

How is that fire pro vs a quadro? I am a little hesitant showing him a suggested list with a card that cost a little over 1/4th of his current one. 

 

Just now saw this, but here is a basic run down of the top pro cards currently available.

 

The Firepro W7100 is 30% faster than the K5000 in Solidworks.   The new Quadro M4000 is another good option, but the 27% performance increase doesn't warrant the 38% price premium over the W7100.  The M5000 is 54% faster than the W7100 with a 320% price premium. 

 

Solidworks really likes the OpenCL performance from AMD.

 

On the CPU side, for modeling, fast single core speed wins. FEA, Photoview, and drawings are mutli-threaded CPU tasks and you can see better benifits from having more slower cores to divide and conquer with.

[nerdyrcdriver]

Just now saw this, but here is a basic run down of the top pro cards currently available.

 

The Firepro W7100 is 30% faster than the K5000 in Solidworks.   The new Quadro M4000 is another good option, but the 27% performance increase doesn't warrant the 38% price premium over the W7100.  The M5000 is 54% faster than the W7100 with a 320% price premium. 

 

Solidworks really likes the OpenCL performance from AMD.

 

On the CPU side, for modeling, fast single core speed wins. FEA, Photoview, and drawings are mutli-threaded CPU tasks and you can see better benifits from having more slower cores to divide and conquer with.

 

What about the W8100? No extra ram but more stream processors and still sits at or under $1k. Its not until you get to the W9100 that you reach the 2-3k mark. 

[Streetguru]

What about the W8100? No extra ram but more stream processors and still sits at or under $1k. Its not until you get to the W9100 that you reach the 2-3k mark. 

Well I'd imagine it's probably faster relative to the number of stream processors

 

Doesn't appear to be worth it from AMD's own website even, W7100 for sure, maybe even 2 of them if possible, probably the best one for the money

 

http://fireprographics.com/ws/cad/solidworks/index.asp

[nerdyrcdriver]

Well I'd imagine it's probably faster relative to the number of stream processors

 

Doesn't appear to be worth it from AMD's own website even, W7100 for sure, maybe even 2 of them if possible, probably the best one for the money

 

http://fireprographics.com/ws/cad/solidworks/index.asp

 

Totally forgot crossfire was an option. He might go for that.

[Streetguru]

Totally forgot crossfire was an option. He might go for that.

Just make sure solidworks accepts crossfire

[nerdyrcdriver]

Just make sure solidworks accepts crossfire

Good point.

 

Could always throw the second card in another workstation if the drivers play nice. Our other main station is rocking a k3500 or something like that. Couldn't get the drivers for the k4000 to play nice with something else. Never got it figured out bc the mobo doesn't have on board video to help with troubleshooting.