M.2 PCIe 3.0

[MatthewLynch]

Hi, I would like to know if is there any disadvantage in M.2 PCIe SSD like life time or something like that. I was looking at Samsung SM951 M.e 128GB PCI-Express SSD

[amp88]

There are a couple of potential disadvantages compared to 'traditional' SATA SSDs: compatibility and thermal throttling. Compatibility is a potential issue if you're using older hardware or Windows versions, but if you're doing a new build on Windows 7 or newer you should have no problems. Thermal throttling refers to behaviour of the SM951 which means that in certain circumstances (under very heavy, continuous load, or in high ambient temperatures, or cases of a poor cooling environment) the performance consistency of the drive may be slightly reduced. If you're interested in reading up about it, have a look here at AnandTech's review of the SM951 NVMe. However, it's worth noting their conclusion on this issue:

 

To sum things up, there is no need to worry about thermal throttling under typical client workloads. There won't be any notable performance loss unless you subject the drive under an intensive sustained workload, which may be relevant to some professional users (e.g. high-end video editing), but not for the typical enthusiast and power user. If you want to ensure that your SM951 operates at full performance at all times, it's not a bad idea to get an adapter with a heatsink, but there is no loss in running the drive without one.

For what it's worth, I have two 128GB NVMe variants of the SM951 M.2 drive in my ASUS Z170-A (one located in the motherboard's M.2 slot and one in a Lycom DT-120 adapter in a PCIe slot) and I have no problems recommending these drives to anything else. In the week or so I've been using them I haven't noticed any problems.

[Elfuego]

There are a couple of potential disadvantages compared to 'traditional' SATA SSDs: compatibility and thermal throttling. Compatibility is a potential issue if you're using older hardware or Windows versions, but if you're doing a new build on Windows 7 or newer you should have no problems. Thermal throttling refers to behaviour of the SM951 which means that in certain circumstances (under very heavy, continuous load, or in high ambient temperatures, or cases of a poor cooling environment) the performance consistency of the drive may be slightly reduced. If you're interested in reading up about it, have a look here at AnandTech's review of the SM951 NVMe. However, it's worth noting their conclusion on this issue:

 

For what it's worth, I have two 128GB NVMe variants of the SM951 M.2 drive in my ASUS Z170-A (one located in the motherboard's M.2 slot and one in a Lycom DT-120 adapter in a PCIe slot) and I have no problems recommending these drives to anything else. In the week or so I've been using them I haven't noticed any problems.

 

Or just mod on a ram fan or some other case fan if you are that worried. But I wouldnt get a 128gb drive. 250gb Minimum .

[amp88]

But I wouldnt get a 128gb drive. 250gb Minimum .

I bought two 128GB drives with the intention of running them in a RAID 0. Which I did get working briefly (after some fiddling around...), but I couldn't get it stable, so I'm now running with the two drives separately. With hindsight I would buy a single 256GB version, though I do think there's the potential for the RAID 0 to be a viable option down the road, if the root cause of my stability problems was a BIOS or driver issue.

[Elfuego]

I bought two 128GB drives with the intention of running them in a RAID 0. Which I did get working briefly (after some fiddling around...), but I couldn't get it stable, so I'm now running with the two drives separately. With hindsight I would buy a single 256GB version, though I do think there's the potential for the RAID 0 to be a viable option down the road, if the root cause of my stability problems was a BIOS or driver issue.

 

Its nice in theory but in practice isnt very fun to implement. Plus you have double the failure chance.

[Metro]

You could get an Intel 750, they are much better PCIE SSDs, you could get the Intel 750 2.5 SSD, then use a U.2 connector in the M.2 to connect the SSD to it.

[amp88]

You could get an Intel 750, they are much better PCIE SSDs, you could get the Intel 750 2.5 SSD, then use a U.2 connector in the M.2 to connect the SSD to it.

I'm not so sure that's true for a non server workload. The performance of the SM951 at lower queue depths (i.e. typical client workload) is pretty good, even for the 128/256GB models. For a server or very heavy client workload the performance and consistency of the Intel 750 wins out though.

[Elfuego]

The one thing that annoys me about intel drives is that the brick themselves at the end of their warranty in TBW.

[Metro]

I'm not so sure that's true for a non server workload. The performance of the SM951 at lower queue depths (i.e. typical client workload) is pretty good, even for the 128/256GB models. For a server or very heavy client workload the performance and consistency of the Intel 750 wins out though.

 

There is no point getting the Samsung SM951 as the Intel 750 beats it in performance, reliability, warranty, better components in it and it is cooler while in load

[TheProfosist]

There is no point getting the Samsung SM951 as the Intel 750 beats it in performance, reliability, warranty, better components in it and it is cooler while in load

The SM951 is cheaper, smaller, and actually has better sequential. The 750 also only has amazing write speeds if you get the 1.2TB model. The SM951 does loose some with its smaller models but not nearly as much.

[TheProfosist]

also tons of you in here really need to get yourselves some avatar's its very hard to tell who is who without them...

[amp88]

There is no point getting the Samsung SM951 as the Intel 750 beats it in performance, reliability, warranty, better components in it and it is cooler while in load

For low queue depth and small transfer size performance (typical client workloads) the 256GB SM951 NVMe is significantly better value for money than the 400GB Intel 750. In order for the 750 to win on performance you really need to put it under heavier loads (typically higher queue depths), because it's not really optimised as a client drive, as the SM951 has been. It's certainly true that the 750 has a much better warranty, and probably reliability too. I just don't think the decision is as clear cut as you're trying to make it, especially for someone on a budget.

[TheProfosist]

Its nice in theory but in practice isnt very fun to implement. Plus you have double the failure chance.

As long as both go through the chipset on Z170 is shouldnt be much of an issue. Also reliability wise SDD are quite good and if your using it for and OS drive its very likely that there isnt much of an issue if you lose that data.

[TheProfosist]

@MatthewLynch I would get the 256GB model unless you can pony up for the 512GB. An OS and programs easily fits on a 256GB with room to spare. If your suing Z170 you should be able to also use 32GB of that to cache a HDD or array of HDDs for gaming or editing.

[Metro]

The SM951 is cheaper, smaller, and actually has better sequential. The 750 also only has amazing write speeds if you get the 1.2TB model. The SM951 does loose some with its smaller models but not nearly as much.

 

If you want it for putting some games on, the Intel 750 is better as IOPS are used more than sequential in games. Also you are losing so many IOPS with the Samsung SM951 there is not much point, the SM951 is a lower end PCIE SSD, while the Intel 750 is the top end at the moment.

 

There is a small difference between the sequential speeds so it is not worth getting the Samsung SM951

 

If you are on a low budget then I agree, get the Samsung SM951 as it is cheaper than the Intel 750

[TheProfosist]

If you want it for putting some games on, the Intel 750 is better as IOPS are used more than sequential in games. Also you are losing so many IOPS with the Samsung SM951 there is not much point, the SM951 is a lower end PCIE SSD, while the Intel 750 is the top end at the moment.

 

There is a small difference between the sequential speeds so it is not worth getting the Samsung SM951

 

If you are on a low budget then I agree, get the Samsung SM951 as it is cheaper than the Intel 750

Never once did I talk about putting games on a SSD plus putting them on one gives you little to no gain so at best ill say tio cache your a HDD with a SSD for games.

The SM951 is currently the highest end M.2 PCI-E 3.0 x4 drive. Nothing else from other companies (HyperX, Plextror, etc) really touches it. Actually I dont know if there is another PCI-E 3.0 x4 M.2 drive. I know of PCI-E 2.0 x4 drives and maybe some PCI-E 3.0 x2 ones.

Intel 750 400Gb has 900MB/s Sequential write. The SM951 512GB has 1500MB/s. How is that "a small difference"? That is an entire high end SATA III SSD between them in speed.

[Elfuego]

I wish I could actually get a 1TB M.2 Drive, or even be able to get away with <1TB SSDs anymore.

[TheProfosist]

I wish I could actually get a 1TB M.2 Drive, or even be able to get away with <1TB SSDs anymore.

Without TLC nand or even better 3D nand this is not going to be possible. Both of these are rumored to be coming in Samsung's first retail PCI-E M.2 drive. There are already 1TB mSATA SSDs though.

[Elfuego]

Without TLC nand or even better 3D nand this is not going to be possible. Both of these are rumored to be coming in Samsung's first retail PCI-E M.2 drive. There are already 1TB mSATA SSDs though.

 

Oh I know why; doesnt mean I have to like it though. Sadly my OS/Program drive needs around 450gb so I have no real choice but to use a 1tb SATA ssd. I have my rig just waiting for affordable 1TB PCI-E slot SSDs also (The Intel 750 Series is not really good enough value yet). We it about half the price (so similar £/gb as a SM951 I would buy one.

[Curufinwe_wins]

Oh I know why; doesnt mean I have to like it though. Sadly my OS/Program drive needs around 450gb so I have no real choice but to use a 1tb SATA ssd. I have my rig just waiting for affordable 1TB PCI-E slot SSDs also (The Intel 750 Series is not really good enough value yet). We it about half the price (so similar £/gb as a SM951 I would buy one.

Haha yea... I bought a refurbished 960 gb m500 from crucial for 180 USD and counted myself lucky. That's my program drive now, with my os on a 850evo.

[amp88]

If you want it for putting some games on, the Intel 750 is better as IOPS are used more than sequential in games. Also you are losing so many IOPS with the Samsung SM951 there is not much point, the SM951 is a lower end PCIE SSD, while the Intel 750 is the top end at the moment.

 

There is a small difference between the sequential speeds so it is not worth getting the Samsung SM951

 

If you are on a low budget then I agree, get the Samsung SM951 as it is cheaper than the Intel 750

I don't think you understand the point I was trying to make before about the real world performance of the SM951 compared to the 750 series. The final words section from AnandTech's review of the 256GB SM951 NVMe spells it out quite clearly:

 

All in all, the SSD 750 remains as the best option for very IO intensive workloads, but for a more typical enthusiast the SM951-NVMe provides better performance

If you're going to be using the drives for a very heavy workload (think 4K video editing, large databases etc) then the 750 is a better option. For most normal users (including power home users) the SM951 will be better in terms of value for money and probably performance. Also, even in a very heavy workload, the difference between the 256GB SM951 NVMe and both 750 variants isn't actually that large, with the SM951 actually slightly above the 400GB 750 in Average Data Rate of AnandTech's Destroyer benchmark:

The Destroyer benchmark contains almost 50 million I/O operations, including over 1.5TB read and 875GB written, at an average queue depth of ~5.5. There's no doubt that in certain benchmarks the 750 is better than the SM951, but not in real world scenarios for the overwhelmingly vast majority of home users. It's easy to get caught up in peak performance figures in certain benchmarks, but you're much better off trying to understand which benchmarks are appropriate for your typical usage scenarios. That way you're much better off, in terms of maximising performance and value for money.

At the time of writing this post, the 400GB Intel 750 is on sale for £308.88 and the 256GB Samsung SM951 NVMe is on pre-order for £161.10. You could get the SM951 and a 500GB Samsung 850 EVO for the same price as the 400GB Intel 750.

[Metro]

Also I have read that both the Intel 750 and the Samsung SM951 have slow boot problems, that are slower than an SSD when booting, so I am not sure what I would recommend now.

[amp88]

Also I have read that both the Intel 750 and the Samsung SM951 have slow boot problems, that are slower than an SSD when booting, so I am not sure what I would recommend now.

The 750 is considerably slower than a Samsung 850 Pro, but the SM951 isn't. See here from The SSD Review (also note that that's for a Z97 motherboard, I haven't seen benchmarks for Z170 boards.).

[Metro]

The 750 is considerably slower than a Samsung 850 Pro, but the SM951 isn't. See here from The SSD Review (also note that that's for a Z97 motherboard, I haven't seen benchmarks for Z170 boards.).

 

They seem to be working on a fix for it, not sure how long that will take though

 

Hello all,

 

Improvements in boot time for the Intel® SSD 750 Series are a high priority for Intel and an update is currently under development. Intel® SSD Data Center Tool supports the 750 Series and will be the first tool to get the update. Other tools (Firmware Update Tool and SSD Toolbox) will be updated soon after.

 

https://communities.intel.com/thread/75676?start=15&tstart=0

[Metro]

The 750 is considerably slower than a Samsung 850 Pro, but the SM951 isn't. See here from The SSD Review (also note that that's for a Z97 motherboard, I haven't seen benchmarks for Z170 boards.).

 

Well you helped me as well, I will also deciding about an Intel 1.2TB or a Samsung SM951, you helped me decide that I should get a Intel 750 400GB (games) and a Samsung SM951 512GB NVMe SSD (Windows 10 and other games), thanks