First time builder, need help

[Benjiih]

Hello all. 

 

I am currently building my first gaming rig, and I need help figuring something out, and understanding it. 

 

I have pretty much settled on a MSI GeForce GTX 970/980 gaming 4GB graphics card, but I don't know what to get, and I need to figure it out before buying, since there is a quite significant price difference. 

 

I basically want a card which I can use for at least 3 years to come, and still play pretty much every game on at least "high." 

 

Currently I am using a 1920x1080 60hertz monitor, but this will be upgraded within 6 months, preferably to a 1440p monitor. 

 

I have been recommended to buy the 980, but I can't figure out why it "should be" much better than the 970, and this is where you guys come in - hopefully.

 

Thank you in advance for helping out a novice builder.

 

Benjamin

[Aytex]

buy the 390x

[Samsterstorm]

For 1440p I would go with a 980, a 970 would be fine for 1080p but seen as u are upgrading ur monitor I would go with 980! 

[Praesi]

If you want play 1440p for the next Years forget the 980 and buy the 980Ti. Its the superiour solution.

[ManOfGold93]

I honestly think that the 970 should be able to handle 1440p just fine

[Aytex]

I honestly think that the 970 should be able to handle 1440p just fine

if u sacrafice some settings of course

[Benjiih]

If you want play 1440p for the next Years forget the 980 and buy the 980Ti. Its the superiour solution.

I would, but that card is slightly out of my pricerange at the moment.

 

buy the 390x

As for 390x vs 980 it seems that the 980 comes out on top in most comparisons I've read so far. 

 

Can't one of you enlighten me, as to why the 980 beats the 970, since they pretty much look identical to me.

[Aytex]

I would, but that card is slightly out of my pricerange at the moment.

 

As for 390x vs 980 it seems that the 980 comes out on top in most comparisons I've read so far. 

 

Can't one of you enlighten me, as to why the 980 beats the 970, since they pretty much look identical to me.

bc u can use the 4gb

980 is slightley faster also

[Benjiih]

bc u can use the 4gb

980 is slightley faster also

Thats because of the 3.5gb issue with the 970 you're refering to, right? 

Where the 980 has the whole 4gb unlocked?

[Aytex]

Thats because of the 3.5gb issue with the 970 you're refering to, right? 

Where the 980 have the whole 4gb unlocked?

well yea. and the 980 is faster in terms of raw power

[ThE_MarD]

Heyyo,

@Benjiih I'd recommend getting the AMD R9 390X if it's cheaper than the GTX 980. It performs just as good as the GTX 980 with less of a price point on average. Better price to performance ftw.

The reason people recommend the GTX 980 is with a non-reference cooler version? You can overclock it better. Technically a GTX 970 with non-reference cooler can overclock almost as good whilst maintaining a better price-to-perfromance ratio.

 

 

buy the 390x

I'm with this guy. I'm not biased. I love NVIDIA but I respect AMD's latest offerings. I'd totally buy an AMD R9 Fury aircooled if they weren't so damn expensive and impossible to find due to shortages on HBM! Lol... I was thinking of selling my GTX 680 2GB SLI cards for an R9 Fury air cooled... but they're nowhere to be found in Canada...

[Aytex]

 

also dat 8gb of vram dou

[BigDay]

from what i've seen, the 980 beats the 390x in most benchmarks. both the 980 and the 390x are entry level cards for 1440p. great-excellent 1440p configs would be (in order) the 970 in sli, the r9 fury x, the 980 ti, 980 in sli, and 980 ti's in sli

 

if i were you, i'd go with the 980 over the 970. if you can save up for a 980 ti, i would buy that as 970 in sli would cost around the same and wouldn't perform as well.

 

980

[ThE_MarD]

Heyyo,

 

also dat 8gb of vram dou

Meh, even the AMD R9 390X in Crossfire? I doubt it'll even fill 6GB of VRAM before the GPU Useage hits 100% on each GPU. AMD should have saved a few bucks and just went with a 6GB VRAM package and made their cards more competitive pricewise.

You gotta think, the GTX 980 and AMD R9 390X are about the same performance and dual GTX 980 SLI can fill up 4GB of VRAM on 4K, but it'll probably start running out of GPU usage before it hits 6GB.

Heck, even the mighty GTX 980 Ti SLI setup on GTA V at 3840x2160 with some MSAA only hits 5GB of VRAM. That beastly setup runs out of GPU useage before it can even hit 6GB of VRAM.

Although I keep debating the jump to 3840x2160? I think I'll end up going to 2560x1440 for better performance scaling since a single GTX 980 Ti and AMD R9 Fury currently struggle for 3840x2160 with an average of 60fps unless you turn down settings... I can just imagine a year from now or more... even with performance improvements from DirectX 12 and Vulkan? I doubt they'll be enough overall... HBM2 NVIDIA GPUs from the Pascal series might be able to though.

[Aytex]

 

why not be odd and go for 6.5 or 6, 7.5

[Benjiih]

Thanks guys for all the input! 

I will save this thread as a reference for when I get paid in a few days and have to make my decision. 

 

Thank you all! 

 

Benjamin

[ThE_MarD]

Heyyo,

 

why not be odd and go for 6.5 or 6, 7.5

Ah, now you get into murky territory... the whole ROP Vs VRAM issue that has plagued the GTX 970. Do you cut down your ROPs in favor of 3.5GB and force the GPU to swap between a 3.5GB partition and slower 500GB partition? Not a clean solution... That's why I say AMD should have taken some ROPs out yeah and just gone for 6GB VRAM on the AMD R9 390X. It would have been more cost effective... unless there's something I'm missing between AMD's and NVIDIA's VRAM implementation. That? Or just kept the ROPs at 64 and just lowered the VRAM count. Even a decrease of $50 if removing that extra 2GB of VRAM would have helped make the AMD R9 390X an even better value card.

As an example of what I mean:

Sapphire Radeon R9 290X 4GB Tr-X OC Video Card = $259.99 USD (as of this post)

Sapphire Radeon R9 290X 8GB Tri-X Video Card = $363.98 USD (as of this post)

So that's a price difference of $103.99 USD. Who knows? Maybe if they only went with a 6GB VRAM model the price difference could have only been $50 USD... but we shall never know I guess. I don't work for AMD and I'm definitely not an engineer lol... just my personal speculation is all.

 

Thanks guys for all the input! 

I will save this thread as a reference for when I get paid in a few days and have to make my decision. 

 

Thank you all! 

 

Benjamin

You're welcome Benjamin!

Btw, do you have a PC rig build or are you planning on a completely new build? If you already have a PC, what's the hardware specifications? If you don't know them it's ok, just use Speccy and export the results:

https://www.piriform.com/speccy/download

Here's a completely new build on what I'd recommend for price to performance without plans to overclock:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-4160 3.6GHz Dual-Core Processor ($136.50 @ shopRBC)

Motherboard: ASRock H97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($74.99 @ NCIX)

Memory: Patriot Signature 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($49.99 @ NCIX)

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.75 @ Vuugo)

Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 390X 8GB SOC Video Card ($529.99 @ NCIX)

Case: Thermaltake Versa H22 Window ATX Mid Tower Case ($55.75 @ Vuugo)

Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.99 @ NCIX)

Total: $986.96

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-07-27 14:06 EDT-0400

It is in Canadian dollars... because I build this list in CAD eh?

Here it is in USD:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-4160 3.6GHz Dual-Core Processor ($112.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Motherboard: ASRock H97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($72.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Memory: Patriot Signature 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($39.99 @ NCIX US)

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($48.89 @ OutletPC)

Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 390X 8GB SOC Video Card ($429.99 @ Amazon)

Case: Thermaltake Versa H22 Window ATX Mid Tower Case ($43.99 @ Directron)

Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($54.99 @ NCIX US)

Total: $803.83

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-07-27 14:12 EDT-0400

That doesn't include Windows though. For that? Meh, Windows 10 comes out in a few days so you could always buy that and get the USB version of it. Optical drives are pretty outdated... but if you wanted an optical drive? They're only about $20 or so.

That? Or what I would recommend is using Reddit's Microsoft SoftwareSwap and save yourself quite a bit of cash on an OEM disk version. Just follow the confirmed trades sticky thread to see which sellers are reliable and you'll be safe.

[Benjiih]

 

[Benjiih]

You're welcome Benjamin!

Btw, do you have a PC rig build or are you planning on a completely new build? If you already have a PC, what's the hardware specifications? If you don't know them it's ok, just use Speccy and export the results:

This is my current PC, I got my brothers old one when he bought a new one himself. 

I have since begun playing a lot more games again, and that why I want a new killer PC I can use for several years to come. 

And I will be building an entire new one, except for the RAM and the SSD ( bought those 2 things a few months back). I am also buying a new monitor like 6 months from now, when I can afford a really nice one. 

I am danish so most of those prices will change a bit from tax ect. But I will look into that when I decide on which exact parts I want. 

 

Currently I am looking at: 

 

Fractal Design Define R5 Black

MSI GeForce GTX 980 Ti Gaming 6GB

Intel Core i7-4790K

Corsair RM750, 750W PSU

MSI Z97 GAMING 5, Socket-1150

 

Additionally I am looking to buy 8 more gigs of ram.

I have done some research on all of these items, and they have all very high reviews, a con though, is that they are all pretty expensive from what I can otherwise buy. 

I don't mind spending extra on items other people have reviewed and can vouch for. 

thoughts on this build?

 

Benjamin

[Praesi]

That would be a very nice and powerfull PC.

[ThE_MarD]

Heyyo,

Just a heads up. I know that Danish krone isn't part of the euro... but PcPartPicker doesn't show that currency so I went with the euro to give you an idea on costs and stuff as I don't know good computer parts stores from Denmark. For that I apologize.

Good choice on motherboard. The MSI Gaming 5 is definitely one of the best SLI-compatible Z97 motherboards.

Oddly enough, PcPartPicker show the MSI Gaming 3 as SLI capable when it is not... hmmm...

For GPU? The MSI GTX 980 Ti Gaming edition is very darn good yeah. That or the Gigabyte Gaming which has slightly better OC potential but of course if your build is red-themed? Get the MSI for that unless you wanna paint the Gigabyte card or want the best air cooling solution. Honorable mention goes to the Zotac GTX 980 Ti AMP! though as it has five year mfr warranty if you register it on their website within 14 days of your purchase. It's still got good cooling but not as good as the others as it's not as active on the VRM cooling as the other non-reference coolers. If you want your PC to last many years? Zotac is the safer-bet brand as it has the longest guarantee of the bunch... that is, as long as you do that purchase registration.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_980_Ti_Amp_Edition/33.html

Otherwise? RAM? Eh, that RAM might only be 1333MHz... I don't know what the stock voltage is on that RAM either. Please check the RAM tab on Speccy and see what it has for operating voltage. If it doesn't say? Then you may need to check the BIOS or even pull the stick out of the system (ground yourself first, use a non-carpet (non-conductive) surface to work on (linoleum or tile work good, so usually the kitchen) touch something metal like the power supply whilst the power cable is plugged in and in the ON position (after that? you can unplug it) and then note the info on the sticker that is hopefully still on the sticks of RAM. Ultimately? You want 1.5 Volts for your optimal operating voltage. Some older RAM require 1.65V which is more than the recommended voltage as stated by Intel... so that's an "at your own risk" kind of thing and may shorten the lifespan of the CPU.

If you do decide to upgrade and seriously want 16GB of RAM? (when gaming you still only need 8GB but your choice eh?) Here is what I'd recommend:

Corsair Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-memory-cmz16gx3m4x2133c11r

She's the voltage that'll make your CPU happy, she's more than ridiculously fast for your system and really? 16GB 2133MHz is only needed if ya wanna show off or do heavy video editing in Adobe Premier and wanna do stuff like RAM scratch disks and stuff lol.

Otherwise? To save some cash? Get the 8GB (2x4GB) kit which is half the price and 8GB of RAM is still boatloads.

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-memory-cmz8gx3m2a2133c11r

If ya want? Tonight I can even run benchmarks on my PC with 3DMark and Unigine Valley or whatever ya want to show you 2133MHz 2x4GB Vs 4x4GB isn't gonna make the biggest difference in the world... I only got a 16GB 4x4GB 2133MHz kit because my bud sold it off cheap when the Dogecoin crashed and he needed to recoup some funds...

Another pointer? For your CPU? If you want to get the i7-4790K? I'd get an aftermarket cooler and overclock it. Otherwise if that's out of your budget? Drop the CPU down to the i5-4690K and overclock that. The hyper-threading in gaming isn't gonna make the biggest performance differences. Quad core (true quad core that is, not the i3 which comes close) is still the most optimal setup in gaming, especially if you're only running one GPU.

Especially the last section of that benchmark btw... look at the average fps being essentially the same. An overclocked i5-4690k would SPANK a stock i7-4690k. I wouldn't recommend doing much overclocking on the stock i7 cooler as it'll generate a lot of heat...

Here's the cooler I'd recommend. 140mm radiator Corsair H90 that will pair up to the back of the case just perfectly.

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-cpu-cooler-h90

Another thing to remember? That Fractal Design Define R5 does not come with all the fans. It's up to you if ya wanna fill the case with all the cooling you want. It's recommended for the best cooling to have a negative pressure setup which means better exhaust airflow than intake. Negative pressure cases run the risk of more dust buildup but that's not a problem on the Define R5 case as it has intake filters.

With that in mind? The Corsair H80i already comes with a fan, so I'd mount the H80i to the back of the case and keep the fan in the back of the case for that push-pull setup on the radiator for the best cooling scenario on that, buy three more fans for the top and buy another fan for the front and one more for the bottom to push air towards your GPU.

In total? You'd be looking at five more fans. It's recommended to use High Airflow fans for pushing air without any obstructions and use Static Pressure fans for pushing air through restrictions like the HDD cage at the front of the case or the radiator (Corsair H90 comes with a static pressure fan btw).

You could always order more of the Fractal Design fans that come with the case for matching or get custom ones that are colored and stuff. For colored fans? Corsair make among the best ones out there and they're smexy. This is one area Fractal Design needs a little work... fan color theming options... well... unless ya wanna spraypaint your fans and stuff lol but I dunno, I wouldn't do that or hand paint them I guess.

Corsair options (remember, SP = Static Pressure & AF = Airflow) :

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/parts/case-fan/overall-list/#s=140&sort=a9&page=1&m=11

Fractal Design Options (note, the ones that come with the case are the GP14 versions which are a mix of High Air Flow and Static Pressure.. HP = static pressure & FD = high airflow) :

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/parts/case-fan/overall-list/#m=106&s=140&sort=a9&page=1

Hope this info helps!

[Benjiih]

EDIT: Woops

[Benjiih]

Hey and wow..

 

You are going all out helping me, that is really awesome man! Thanks a lot!

 

Otherwise? RAM? Eh, that RAM might only be 1333MHz... I don't know what the stock voltage is on that RAM either. Please check the RAM tab on Speccy and see what it has for operating voltage. If it doesn't say? Then you may need to check the BIOS or even pull the stick out of the system (ground yourself first, use a non-carpet (non-conductive) surface to work on (linoleum or tile work good, so usually the kitchen) touch something metal like the power supply whilst the power cable is plugged in and in the ON position (after that? you can unplug it) and then note the info on the sticker that is hopefully still on the sticks of RAM. Ultimately? You want 1.5 Volts for your optimal operating voltage. Some older RAM require 1.65V which is more than the recommended voltage as stated by Intel... so that's an "at your own risk" kind of thing and may shorten the lifespan of the CPU.

Currently I have 2x 4gb hyperX Fury DDR3 1600MHz ram sticks in my setup, but you're saying that something might be wrong from the picture I linked?

The only reason I want 16gb to begin with, is to "avoid" buying another 8gigs later on, when games start demanding it. But I will take it into consideration, and I will buy everything else before buying more RAM. Thanks for the heads-up on that one. 

 

I actually have an aftermarket CPU cooler already purchased since my other one bit the dust a few weeks back. I am using the Corsair H75 Hydro Series CPU Køler which is doing a really good job at keeping my cpu cool, even with "just" one 120mm fan. I set it up using a push/pull config, since that was recommended.

 

As I previously mentioned I don't mind spending a little extra to get what I want. And I don't mind that I can't buy the entire system all at once. 

 

For now I don't think I will be overclocking anything in my system, since nothing I am going to play really demands it. It can be something to think about down the road though.

 

The only reason I chose the Fractal case is because I really like the design of it. I don't mind buying an extra fan or two. :-)

 

I don't really care that much about the color inside my case, so I will probaly take your advice and get the zotac GPU for an extended warranty.

 

And yea, your info helps a lot! I am still very new to this, so I have lots to learn! :-)

 

EDIT: I have a decent idea what it is all going to cost from the website I have been buying most of my other stuff. I will however try to figure out if there is anything to save, using other website before buying. Especially the more expensive items. 

[ThE_MarD]

Hey and wow..

 

You are going all out helping me, that is really awesome man! Thanks a lot!

 

Currently I have 2x 4gb hyperX Fury DDR3 1600MHz ram sticks in my setup, but you're saying that something might be wrong from the picture I linked?

The only reason I want 16gb to begin with, is to "avoid" buying another 8gigs later on, when games start demanding it. But I will take it into consideration, and I will buy everything else before buying more RAM. Thanks for the heads-up on that one.

Oh that's the RAM you have? That's good! It's 1.5V RAM. You could always just buy another set of that then if you ever felt like upgrading.

 

I actually have an aftermarket CPU cooler already purchased since my other one bit the dust a few weeks back. I am using the Corsair H75 Hydro Series CPU Køler which is doing a really good job at keeping my cpu cool, even with "just" one 120mm fan. I set it up using a push/pull config, since that was recommended.

As I previously mentioned I don't mind spending a little extra to get what I want. And I don't mind that I can't buy the entire system all at once. 

 

For now I don't think I will be overclocking anything in my system, since nothing I am going to play really demands it. It can be something to think about down the road though.

I myself have a Corsair H80. I freaking love the thing. It's more than enough cooling especially if you're not going to bother with overclocking.

Tbh? If that's the case? Then get the Intel Xeon E3-1230 V3. It's meant for long-term stability in servers and such thus the CPU Multiplier is locked... but it'll perform just about as good as a stock Intel i7-4790k but at the same price as an Intel i5-4690k!

Ultimately though? You'd probably get more consistent performance gains though if you went with the i5-4690K and just overclocked that. Even a 500MHz clock, just bump up the CPU multiplier to 40 which will give you 4.0GHz (same clock speed as the i7-4790k) and maybe be what? 10% slower or so?

Games still haven't gotten to the point with DirectX 11 where eight working CPU threads can be used to their full potential... will DirectX 12 and Vulkan fix that? Eh, tbh I'm a little pessimistic lol. DirectX 12 and Vulkan if anything make the CPU less important to the GPU as the GPUs will handle the draw calls... Even since the first consumer quad cores launched back in what? 2006 with the Intel Core2Quad Q6600? It's only recently where quad core CPUs have really become the sweet-spot of multi-core gaming!

 

The only reason I chose the Fractal case is because I really like the design of it. I don't mind buying an extra fan or two. :-)

 

I don't really care that much about the color inside my case, so I will probaly take your advice and get the zotac GPU for an extended warranty.

www.zotac.com/ca/support/warranty-manager/register/warranty-disclaimer.html

I decided to check on Zotac's warranty to see if it changed. Sadly? In North America it seems to have... only 3 years warranty if you register within 28 days from purchase. Meh, it's still a plenty fine GPU if you don't plan on overclocking. If you do? MSI GTX 980 Ti Gaming edition is the best for that. Otherwise? Save the cost difference and get the Zotac. I'd still get the non-reference cooler Zotac over the stock cooler for a build that won't have airflow problems like yours in the Fractal Design Define R5.

Fractal Design make some pretty awesome cases yeah. If you don't really care about color-matching and stuff? You can save a few bucks and get a non-windowed edition of the case. it'll also have better noise dampening too.

 

And yea, your info helps a lot! I am still very new to this, so I have lots to learn! :-)

 

EDIT: I have a decent idea what it is all going to cost from the website I have been buying most of my other stuff. I will however try to figure out if there is anything to save, using other website before buying. Especially the more expensive items.

You're very welcome amigo!

PcPartPicker.com has become a really good site for parts hunting. Be sure to check it out.

Here's some build suggestions I have though:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Motherboard: MSI Z97-GAMING 5 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($145.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB AMP! Video Card ($647.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Case: Fractal Design Define R5 w/Window (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($113.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Power Supply: Thermaltake Smart M 850W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($64.99 @ Newegg)

Other: ViewSonic VX2703MH-LED Black 27" 3ms HDMI Widescreen LED Backlight LED Monitor 300 cd/m2 DC 10,000,000:1 (1200:1) Built-in Speakers ($239.99)

Total: $1442.94

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-08-01 16:57 EDT-0400

Otherwise? Here's what your GTX 970 with i7 build would look like:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($328.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Motherboard: MSI Z97-GAMING 5 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($145.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 970 4GB AMP! Omega Core Edition Video Card ($329.00 @ NCIX US)

Case: Fractal Design Define R5 w/Window (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($113.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Power Supply: Thermaltake Smart M 850W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($64.99 @ Newegg)

Other: ViewSonic VX2703MH-LED Black 27" 3ms HDMI Widescreen LED Backlight LED Monitor 300 cd/m2 DC 10,000,000:1 (1200:1) Built-in Speakers ($239.99)

Total: $1222.95

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-08-01 16:58 EDT-0400

I say for the $200 difference? The leap in performance from the GTX 970 to the GTX 980 Ti would be pretty freaking epic though.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_980_Ti_Amp_Edition/18.html

We tested the game with everything set to very high and MSAA off.

I linked this to show you for GTA V the average framerate difference at 2560x1440... GTX 970? 45.8fps. GTX 980 Ti? 66.5fps. I believe they did use the built-in benchmark and not strictly gameplay. Still, the built-in benchmark isn't too shabby. Expect actual gameplay to be a little lower though.

Dat's some delicious framerates! Stupid money... I'd totally sell of my GTX 680 2GB Two-Way SLI setup for a single GTX 980 Ti lol... but I got stuff like a wedding next year to plan for.