I need some advice with a long distance WiFi link

[KRC1023]

Here is the situation. At my mom's house (Where I am most of the time) We have a 30gb/month data limit through at&t cellular on this thing called the "homebase".

 

It's kind of crap. The management software is really bad. It shows you a single, non-resettable data counter that counts the data that has been used over the entire life of the device. You have to keep a spreadsheet of the used data and calculate how much data you have used, etc... It's really stupid. The thing is made by ZTE... so what do you really expect.

 

 

(Image from www.ztedevice.com)

 

Anyway, I for one really don't have great expectations from ZTE. Note "Cristal clear voice".

 

So my idea for getting around this problem is to get 2 of these:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00L2P3TRS/ref=gno_cart_title_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2LM6ZPY06LT1N

 

..And 2 of these:  

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RDNKNO0/ref=gno_cart_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2XK1LYKSDHPGL

 

and put one system on top of my dad's house (In town, 4.25 miles away or so), and the other in top of the house on the hill and have unlimited (albeit slightly unreliable) wifi. I was looking at some 5ghz stuff instead of 2.4, but I switched to 2.4 at the advice of someone at the local hackerspace which I frequent. 

 

Advice is greatly appreciated, including people saying "this has absolutely no shot".

 

Also, I'm new here. In the past on other forums I've been really good at putting stuff in the wrong section... I hope I got it right!

 

[Ahaber]

I have no idea weather or not this would work (although I doubt it would). I would think that you would probably have issues aligning these properly as the area where the signal is strongest on those antennas is really small. I would love to see this project come to fruition, and see how it turns out though. Also I think you have this in the right section.

[jamie.k.hofer]

Here is the situation. At my mom's house (Where I am most of the time) We have a 30gb/month data limit through at&t cellular on this thing called the "homebase".

 

It's kind of crap. The management software is really bad. It shows you a single, non-resettable data counter that counts the data that has been used over the entire life of the device. You have to keep a spreadsheet of the used data and calculate how much data you have used, etc... It's really stupid. The thing is made by ZTE... so what do you really expect.

 

 

(Image from www.ztedevice.com)

 

Anyway, I for one really don't have great expectations from ZTE. Note "Cristal clear voice".

 

So my idea for getting around this problem is to get 2 of these:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00L2P3TRS/ref=gno_cart_title_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2LM6ZPY06LT1N

 

..And 2 of these:  

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RDNKNO0/ref=gno_cart_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2XK1LYKSDHPGL

 

and put one system on top of my dad's house (In town, 4.25 miles away or so), and the other in top of the house on the hill and have unlimited (albeit slightly unreliable) wifi. I was looking at some 5ghz stuff instead of 2.4, but I switched to 2.4 at the advice of someone at the local hackerspace which I frequent. 

 

Advice is greatly appreciated, including people saying "this has absolutely no shot".

 

Also, I'm new here. In the past on other forums I've been really good at putting stuff in the wrong section... I hope I got it right!

Ubiquiti makes really good bridges.... They call it Airfiber.

[KRC1023]

Yes, I know ubiquiti makes really good bridges. They also make really expensive bridges. The person I talked to at the hackerspace has done this before over shorter ranges in the city, and the hardware I have found here should be more than sufficient to get 4 and a quarter miles.. theoretically.

 

I looked into ubiquiti stuff before this.

 

Edit: Thank you, incredibly active mods for removing my derp thread

[d3sl91]

At the prices you listed, I think it's worth a shot. and think it is very possible. 

 

However, If you have any tree coverage or buildings in the way, you will have a bad time. This needs to be as line-of-sight as possible..

 

I will mention that the FCC max wattage for 2.4 is 1Watt (1k mW), so, I'd be suprised if those units actualy do 1.4...but maybe I'

m wrong.

 

I will not mention that you...technically...are not legal in doing this, but, that's a whole other debate that I don't care about.

[KRC1023]

At the prices you listed, I think it's worth a shot. and think it is very possible. 

 

However, If you have any tree coverage or buildings in the way, you will have a bad time. This needs to be as line-of-sight as possible..

 

I will mention that the FCC max wattage for 2.4 is 1Watt (1k mW), so, I'd be suprised if those units actualy do 1.4...but maybe I'

m wrong.

 

I will not mention that you...technically...are not legal in doing this, but, that's a whole other debate that I don't care about.

 

If it's illegal to use it then why is it on amazon? Maybe it only goes up to 5 watts doing 5ghz. I don't know.

Edit: I edit a lot! Also, there is tree coverage. I know that there is tree coverage. It's not like you can see more than about 100 yards from any direction at either end. Maybe I could put it on a pole of some kind? I don't know.

[KRC1023]

Ok, Does anyone else think that pole-mounting these: http://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanobeam-ac/ would work way better than the solution I had found before?

[Scheer]

Ok, Does anyone else think that pole-mounting these: http://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanobeam-ac/ would work way better than the solution I had found before?

 

Very much yes, this is what they are made for. I used Nanostations to bridge out to my workshop and it was flawless, albeit a very short link. I'm getting ready to test out how well they will work on a 9 mile hop to my brother-in-laws house as satellite is his only option.

 

Keep in mind the higher the frequency, the worse the quality of the hop will be. 5ghz will require full line of sight in the Fresnel zone no matter what (for the most part), going to 2.4ghz and you can shoot thru a few trees along the way. A slower 2.4ghz hop that works almost all of the time is much better than a faster 5ghz hop that is down every time the weather is bad. Water reflects RF, and humidity means water in the air, so humid days will cause issues, rain and snow cause issues, fog causes issues... hell with what I've seen I think a mosquito flying by will interrupt 5ghz links. For reasons I don't understand 900mhz, which is even lower frequency, does not have as much range as 2.4ghz on some of their products.

 

Play around with this tool first, to see if it is even possible due to obstructions: http://airlink.ubnt.com/

 

A hop should run you less than $200 for the equipment, and another $50 ish for some nice outdoor shielded Cat5e.

 

I'd also recommend you use these, for $15 they are well worth the peace of mind: http://www.ubnt.com/accessories/ethernet-surge-protector/

Buy three of them, one for each radio and one as a spare. They do not dissipate the current and keep working (even if they say they do...), they blow like a fuse to protect your networking equipment.

 

http://wiki.ubnt.com/Proper_installation

[KRC1023]

So I'm finally getting around to replying to this again.. Any ideas for how to make that airlink calculator work on Linux?

Silly google earth plugin is deprecated anyway, I think.

If you couldn't tell, this is posted from my phone- please excuse the short post.

[Darren]

Ok, Does anyone else think that pole-mounting these: http://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanobeam-ac/ would work way better than the solution I had found before?

 

You wouldn't even need the AC version, only if the connection is >100Mbps.

 

The company I work for (WISP) runs these as it's CPE. According to my dashboard, we have 2000+ of these deployed right now with about 120 of these rolling out per month. You need a fairly uninterrupted line of sight for these to work, however.

[dzonidev]

You wouldn't even need the AC version, only if the connection is >100Mbps.

 

The company I work for (WISP) runs these as it's CPE. According to my dashboard, we have 2000+ of these deployed right now with about 120 of these rolling out per month. You need a fairly uninterrupted line of sight for these to work, however.

 

What he said.

 

2.4Ghz would have been fine 10 years ago maybe. Right now I bet you have at least 40 other networks in the same airspace as your network.

 

Since you already bought those GRID antennas, why not get Ubiquiti Bullet? They have a 5GHz version as well. With this gear you'd be fine for quite some time not to mention the connection quality would be great as well.

[KRC1023]

I didn't buy anything, yet. I think I will have to find a way to get one of them way up on a pole for line of sight...

[dzonidev]

I didn't buy anything, yet. I think I will have to find a way to get one of them way up on a pole for line of sight...

 

Sorry missread.

[d3sl91]

I didn't buy anything, yet. I think I will have to find a way to get one of them way up on a pole for line of sight...

Yeah, I'd reccomend trying for line of sight as much as possible. 

 

Many places sell "tv mast" for pretty cheap. comes in 10ft sections. If you go higher than that, may need to use guy wires to prevent it from moving all over the place. 

[Atlantisman]

Using that hardware MIGHT work, but it is actually illegal to run a link such as this in the 2.4ghz spectrum(because anywhere from point A to B will have pretty shitty wifi, because of your link taking up airspace.), according to the FCC. It would definitely not work over 5ghz.

 

And you would need pretty good line of sight between the two points.

 

 

EDIT: And yes, airfiber hardware is pretty expensive for home use, but its awesome and rated for 12km+

[costin.buga]

I don't think this will work on 2.4 ghz because of very high interference.

To use 5 ghz, you need direct line of sight.

I would try to get direct line of sight and use http://routerboard.com/RBSEXTANTG5HPnD, they are pretty cheap and work great.

[Darren]

Using that hardware MIGHT work, but it is actually illegal to run a link such as this in the 2.4ghz spectrum(because anywhere from point A to B will have pretty shitty wifi, because of your link taking up airspace.), according to the FCC. It would definitely not work over 5ghz.

 

And you would need pretty good line of sight between the two points.

 

 

EDIT: And yes, airfiber hardware is pretty expensive for home use, but its awesome and rated for 12km+

 

Why would it not work over 5Ghz? 5.4 potentially not due to to power constraints, but 5.8 would be easy. I'm looking at multiple 20km links using this gear.

[Atlantisman]

Why would it not work over 5Ghz? 5.4 potentially not due to to power constraints, but 5.8 would be easy. I'm looking at multiple 20km links using this gear.

Well, it would, but the need for maintaining LOS would be much higher though, especially using consumer hardware that's mostly purposed for home wifi.

[Scheer]

Using that hardware MIGHT work, but it is actually illegal to run a link such as this in the 2.4ghz spectrum(because anywhere from point A to B will have pretty shitty wifi, because of your link taking up airspace.), according to the FCC. It would definitely not work over 5ghz.

 

I don't want to say that I'm absolutely positive you are wrong, because I cannot find proof... but I'm 99.9% sure there is nothing illegal about PTP 2.4ghz, and I know dozens of companies both small and giant that run them.

 

As long as you are well above any obstacles, 5ghz shouldn't be a problem most of the time, weather depending.

 

So I'm finally getting around to replying to this again.. Any ideas for how to make that airlink calculator work on Linux?

 

Sorry, no idea on Linux.

[Atlantisman]

I don't want to say that I'm absolutely positive you are wrong, because I cannot find proof... but I'm 99.9% sure there is nothing illegal about PTP 2.4ghz, and I know dozens of companies both small and giant that run them.

 

As long as you are well above any obstacles, 5ghz shouldn't be a problem most of the time, weather depending.

 

 

Sorry, no idea on Linux.

I can't find that actual FCC rules on it right now, but this video outlines it a bit:

 

 

starts at around 7:30 or so, when he starts talking about the FCC and regulations. The limitations come into play with higher output power and getting a link at 4.25 miles is going to require some higher power stuff, how much, i am not sure, so it might be within the limitations. (I don't want to do the math right now)

[Scheer]

I can't find that actual FCC rules on it right now, but this video outlines it a bit:

 

starts at around 7:30 or so, when he starts talking about the FCC and regulations. The limitations come into play with higher output power and getting a link at 4.25 miles is going to require some higher power stuff, how much, i am not sure, so it might be within the limitations. (I don't want to do the math right now)

 

Ah yeah, there is a limit to the power output. All of the Ubiquiti products comply with FCC regulations AFAIK, but you could mismatch antennas with a rocket and exceed FCC regs.

 

This document sums up a much larger FCC document about it, although I'm not positive it is up to date.

 

http://www.air802.com/files/FCC-Rules-and-Regulations.pdf

 

I believe the purpose of the limit is anything higher exceeds the general population limit for the non-ionizing radiation of RF, and not interference.

[Atlantisman]

Ah yeah, there is a limit to the power output. All of the Ubiquiti products comply with FCC regulations AFAIK, but you could mismatch antennas with a rocket and exceed FCC regs.

 

This document sums up a much larger FCC document about it, although I'm not positive it is up to date.

 

http://www.air802.com/files/FCC-Rules-and-Regulations.pdf

 

I believe the purpose of the limit is anything higher exceeds the general population limit for the non-ionizing radiation of RF, and not interference.

Yes, that is the purpose of the regulations, attempting to make the airwaves better for the community.

[KRC1023]

I think I'm going to find a way to pole mount it and use one of the one-piece ubiquiti bridges. I wonder if I might be able to mount the antenna out in the country waaaaay up on a pole and the other one (in the middle of town) on the roof?