Closing the gap between laptops and desktops.

[Muppet]

How far into the future do we have to look to see laptops close the gap on desktop and be able to perform exactly the same?

Mainly we are limited by heat and silicone (how much we can fit onto a board).

Do you want to see this?

Do you think there will be some other new advance that requires balky cooling systems?

Would keeping applications more cpu dependent help?

(some of this probably could of been worded a bit better)

[Guest]

In the market we're seeing a lot more lower performance battery optimised systems that are designed for web browsing, presentation and light business use. I reckon over the next 5 years we'll see a steady drop in mid to high performance laptops in favor of tablet/notebook type lightweight systems and desktops which to a certain degree is already occurring.

Just my $.02

[Ghost]

I don't think the gap will close but laptops will be as good as todays desktops in a few years.

[Mariofazenda]

I Agree with "windspeed36", the market we're seeing it's really in to web browsing and light business use. Still some notebooks are available at a high price (for exemple the G series from MSI or the Republic of Gamers from Asus), and the specs really compete with some desktops, leaving aside the Graphics Card.

The large prices are still the barrier, more then Heat or silicone.

[Muppet]

Well perhaps there already is a laptop out there that can run with the best of PC's, just way out of the consumers price range. Something military? Perhaps i don't know. I think for the gap to be closed, I don't think a computer will come together as it does now with all its main components separate. Maybe just a single cpu "like" device. AMD's new apu's seem a leep in that direction. Maybe soon enough we will not have a tower next to our monitors. But still providing all the power we need, unlike an all in one PC.

​Just my point of view, in our life time, perhaps, look how far we have come this far.

[Larrivee013]

However, let's not forget that laptops are not upgradable at the moment. Personally, I'm hesitant about buying a hardcore laptop (let's say 1500-2000$ range) because once it's done, it's done. Nothing really can be upgraded and you're stuck with what you have. That my friends is what I think is keeping the laptops from beeing as good as desktop. Also, to make all the components smaller and powerful, it costs a lot of money, meaning that a 1000$ desktop might be as good as a 2000$ laptop (example numbers here, not real ones).

Just what I think... Perhaps some day, we'll get some super duper awesome laptop cases to build our stuff with our own hands, instead of chineese assembling the thing as cheap as possible to keep the price down...

[xaeleep]

However' date=' let's not forget that laptops are not upgradable at the moment.[/quote']

With Intel seeking to make CPU's non replaceable on all boards except their high-end sockets, and with APU's starting to kick off. I can't see the classic desktop computer be around for much longer.

[Ethan]

Consider this about Haswell:

[TABLE=class: sh_table]

[TR=class: row2, bgcolor: #E8E8E8]

[TD]

Core i7-4930MX

Core i7-4770K[/TD]

[TD]

4 Cores

4 Cores[/TD]

[TD]

8 Threads

8 Threads[/TD]

[TD]

3.0 GHz / 3.9 GHz @ 57W TDP

3.5 Ghz / 3.9 Ghz @ 84W TDP[/TD]

[TD]

8 MB Cache

8 MB Cache[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

The difference between the top mobile chip and mainstream desktop chips are minimal. At turbo clocks, they're the same. If that doesn't signify laptops catching up, I don't know what does. It's a sad day. Although if Intel really wanted to use the thermal benefits of desktop chips, they could release MUCH faster desktop chips. 84W is nothing compared to the 125W they could be doing.

Top-end GPUs are still WAY too hot for notebooks, but they're getting better.

[Raj8396]

I think that overtime laptops with great cpu and lots of ram will start coming out without any graphics card so you get cool low power consumption light laptop and the thunderbolt pci expansion thingies will drop in price and will get more driver support (i hope next gen geforce and radeon card have it) and you can put a nice sound card in an get nice headphone keyboard and mouse, put it at you desk at home and plug everything in and you have a gaming laptop, and if you wanna game on the go you can get a laptop bag that can accommodate you thunderbolt enclosure and you are good to go.

What do you think about that?

[NickTheMajin]

However' date=' let's not forget that laptops are not upgradable at the moment. Personally, I'm hesitant about buying a hardcore laptop (let's say 1500-2000$ range) because once it's done, it's done. Nothing really can be upgraded and you're stuck with what you have. That my friends is what I think is keeping the laptops from beeing as good as desktop. Also, to make all the components smaller and powerful, it costs a lot of money, meaning that a 1000$ desktop might be as good as a 2000$ laptop (example numbers here, not real ones). Just what I think... Perhaps some day, we'll get some super duper awesome laptop cases to build our stuff with our own hands, instead of chineese assembling the thing as cheap as possible to keep the price down... [/quote']

That is not entirely true. The highest end Alienwares and Sagers have removeable GPUs. There are many people using 2010 m17xs with dual 7970ms or 680ms. Certainly not anywhere near as cost effective as a desktop tower but it is certainly a possibility in the highest end gaming laptops.

[Ghost]

I don't think the gap will close but laptops will be as good as todays desktops in a few years.

You forgot that in that same few years You're referring to' date=' requirements and technology in (for example) games would rise too. Today laptops are way more powerful than desktops from 5 years back.[/quote']

Desktops will ALWAYS be in front of laptops. There is just more demand for desktops. I think tablets will close the gap but not desktops.

[Ethan]

So if that would be the case you don't need any performance improvement (CPU- or GPU related) but an enormous networking innovation that would make such think possible without huge lag or any kind of delays.

And that's the root of the problem with cloud gaming - latency. It's still so far away from the response times of a dedicated gaming rig that it won't be reasonable for a while yet.

While CPUs are getting close, I think desktop GPUs are still going to stay miles ahead of their notebook counterparts for years because of one thing: heat output. AMD and Nvidia are still pushing the thermal limits with each release (although the 600 series from Nvidia hasn't as much as other lines). You have top-of-the-line single-GPUs pushing 200-250W, whereas the top 1150 CPUs won't hit 85W without overclocking and Ivy Bridge is 77W. The difference here is that 80W can be pumped out of a notebook with the right cooling. 250W just isn't going to happen.

Of course, it's important to remember that the only real need for this sort of GPU power is gaming. For most other usage, the mobile CPUs are close enough that the difference in day-to-day tasks isn't going to be noticeable. The major factor for many tasks is disk speed. Now that SSDs are commonplace in mid-to-high-end systems of any persuasion (desktop/portable), you have the same 2.5" drives both systems. No longer are the chunky, hot 7200 rpm drives in deskops (WD Caviar Blacks and the like) or even 10K drives like Velociraptors even relevant.

The last remaining inequality between the two that I will address is price. There is no hiding the fact that higher-end desktop systems give you far more performance per dollar than notebooks. Lower-end is hard to say because they're cutting corners left, right and centre, making it all a bit murky.

[King Nothing]

This is the future of laptops!!

[Larrivee013]

However, let's not forget that laptops are not upgradable at the moment. Personally, I'm hesitant about buying a hardcore laptop (let's say 1500-2000$ range) because once it's done, it's done. Nothing really can be upgraded and you're stuck with what you have. That my friends is what I think is keeping the laptops from beeing as good as desktop. Also, to make all the components smaller and powerful, it costs a lot of money, meaning that a 1000$ desktop might be as good as a 2000$ laptop (example numbers here, not real ones).

Just what I think... Perhaps some day, we'll get some super duper awesome laptop cases to build our stuff with our own hands, instead of chineese assembling the thing as cheap as possible to keep the price down...

yeah... I really hope they (Intel) don't solder everything. In that case, we still have AMD...

[Ethan]

So if that would be the case you don't need any performance improvement (CPU- or GPU related) but an enormous networking innovation that would make such think possible without huge lag or any kind of delays.

And that's the root of the problem with cloud gaming - latency. It's still so far away from the response times of a dedicated gaming rig that it won't be reasonable for a while yet.

While CPUs are getting close, I think desktop GPUs are still going to stay miles ahead of their notebook counterparts for years because of one thing: heat output. AMD and Nvidia are still pushing the thermal limits with each release (although the 600 series from Nvidia hasn't as much as other lines). You have top-of-the-line single-GPUs pushing 200-250W, whereas the top 1150 CPUs won't hit 85W without overclocking and Ivy Bridge is 77W. The difference here is that 80W can be pumped out of a notebook with the right cooling. 250W just isn't going to happen.

Of course, it's important to remember that the only real need for this sort of GPU power is gaming. For most other usage, the mobile CPUs are close enough that the difference in day-to-day tasks isn't going to be noticeable. The major factor for many tasks is disk speed. Now that SSDs are commonplace in mid-to-high-end systems of any persuasion (desktop/portable), you have the same 2.5" drives both systems. No longer are the chunky, hot 7200 rpm drives in deskops (WD Caviar Blacks and the like) or even 10K drives like Velociraptors even relevant.

The last remaining inequality between the two that I will address is price. There is no hiding the fact that higher-end desktop systems give you far more performance per dollar than notebooks. Lower-end is hard to say because they're cutting corners left, right and centre, making it all a bit murky.

What consumer useage scenario is bottlenecked with disk speed? And almost all mobile devices are flash based anyway - Ultrabooks following this trend too.

Well almost everything in a PC is affected by disk speed. It's probably the biggest factor in perceived responsiveness today. Aside from load times, there are always tasks in the background indexing, caching, scanning, etc. Unless you're idling, chances are the disk is doing something. And if it's busy doing things, then any time a program needs to access the disk, there's going to be a delay. There's obviously minimal-to-no bottleneck in SSD-equipped systems, but remember: the number of PCs equipped with SSDs from the factory is actually fairly low. Sure, you have your ultrabooks and higher-end systems, but most consumer-level stuff is still platter storage. Other mobile devices (tablets, phones) are a completely different kettle of fish, because the flash storage in them is much slower than SSDs and the CPUs are still a limiting factor in many cases - they're not the topic of discussion here.

[IdeaStormer]

This is the future of laptops!!

Yes with TB and expansion units like this the gap is nonexistent. Its only a matter of getting it work but the tech is here now!

[KieranRogers]

Michalpiekarski that is the only way i will use a ultrabook for gaming. I also would like the image on the laptop display NOT on a different display like a tv. When this is able to work ill find an ultrabook with a 1080p display and a thunderbolt port

[racann2]

I still do not understand the need for tablets. Why not just get a small Laptop? I got my Asus Vivobook x202E for $500 and it has a touchscreen just like a tablet, but it can do more because it's running Windows 8. That is still cheaper than an iPad plus a Bluetooth keyboard. I think the there won't be a difference between Tablets and Laptops soon. Look at the Lenovo Thinkpad Twist. It can change from a tablet to a laptop.

I have an Asus Transformer TF101 and absolutely love it. After using the tablet, I couldn't ever see myself ever wanting to buy a laptop. I can sit on the couch and do my web surfing and checking out LinusTechTips on Youtube and then when I want to get some serious work done or gaming, I have my desktop. Sitting on my couch and just playing our would stink if i had to use my fiance's old school laptop.

[racann2]

I have other idea for You guys. Actually NVidia has it. What about a little thing called "The Cloud"? Heard about that? I'm pretty sure You did.

So imagine this:

1. You have a laptop/tablet machine;

2. Low to medium performance;

3. But amazing battery life and slim, lightwaight construction;

4. And at any moment when You need more performance (games) You use remote server for running more demanding applications.

So if that would be the case you don't need any performance improvement (CPU- or GPU related) but an enormous networking innovation that would make such think possible without huge lag or any kind of delays.

I like the idea in concept but don't like it because I still want to build my own gaming rig.