Physics Question / Discussion ( Double Slit Experiment )

[bartekxx12]

Hi,

I'm currently doing Physics as one of my subjects at uni and was recently taught about the double slit experiment and then I watched this video - 

In class we were also told that they recently tried doing the experiment again where they had the detector at one of the slits saving the results to a computer but that's all, no one viewed them but even then because the results were stored somewhere the electrons were behaving like particles, but, as soon as the data was erased, a wave interference pattern appeared. So apparently as long as there is data stored anywhere on which slit the electrons went through they behave like particles, as soon as that data is erased from everywhere it is stored, an interference pattern appears. 

This got me thinking about 2 things:

1. Because of this could they not find out if "the information" about whether or not data about the experiment is stored anywhere travels faster than the speed of light? Just by recording the results about which slit the electrons went through on a computer, not looking at them and transporting the computer somewhere far away and then have someone delete the results at an agreed on time and if a wave pattern appears at exactly the same time the data is erased then the information transfer was instant, if not they could work out the speed that it happened at.

2. Could it be used to figure out if there is any sort of life after death? If the results were shown ONLY to someone who will die soon (someone very ill), and then they were deleted off the computer, that would make that person the only thing that holds the data. If once the person dies an interference pattern appears that would suggest that the information no longer exists anywhere. If however they stay behaving as particles, that would suggest that the information is still somewhere... with the person. 

[GuruMeditationError]

 

Hi,

 

 

I'd be more inclined to look at proximity of objects to the experiment. Does it have to be a piece of observational equipment for the change to occur?

 

Is all they need to do to affect the experiment, to turn off the observation device? If so that means there's a removal of potential electrical interference from the observation device's power source. Can they re-create the pattern produced by the power running through the observation device without actually observing anything, then just look at the result to see if it's electrical interference that's creating the change?

 

I'd imagine those are experiments that have already been done.

 

They're good questions because they foreground areas for clarification but I personally can't get enough information from your post to suggest an answer. It is possible to make assumptions based on the question...e.g. I guess for the question to be valid they'd have to be monitoring the result and the slits at the same time, and the results persist until both the observation device is disconnected and the information it previously recorded by it has been deleted (that both of these things have to apply (deletion of data and disconnection of observation device) for the result being observed to change?

 

As for question 1. you'd probably need a measuring device that responds at the speed of light in order to verify if another device is responding at the same speed?

 

Question 2. Can someone store that information effectively enough in their own memory to maintain the change in results even when the observation device is disconnected and when the digital storage media is purged of the data. Another good question might be, will different forms of storage media also affect the result i.e. paper-based records of the experiment or does it all have to be electronic?

 

Also, if human brain matter is the storage medium then it may be as simple as just waiting for the matter to degrade (post mortem) for the results to change back again. Essentially you might be able to prove that the human spirit (if it exists separate from the human nervous system) is a repository of data but then you'd have a whole host of metaphysical concepts to deal with (such as the assumed basis for the efficacy of aromatherapy (i.e. the water having no trace of the original additive but being assumed to retain the spirit of the additive etc.)

 

Getting into the realms of metaphysics, there's an experiment by Dean Radin that shows the human mind will react appropriately to random stimulus before the stimulus is even displayed (suggesting consciousness in non-local) but here's what Brian Dunning has to say about Radin (not his reaction experiments specifically, but his "global consciousness" work):  http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4049

 

Ultimately are you sure those results are correct? That the data can be stored remotely and the change will remain in effect?

 

You could try the Physics forum https://www.physicsforums.com/

[bartekxx12]

I'd be more inclined to look at proximity of objects to the experiment. Does it have to be a piece of observational equipment for the change to occur?

 

Is all they need to do to affect the experiment, to turn off the observation device? If so that means there's a removal of potential electrical interference from the observation device's power source. Can they re-create the pattern produced by the power running through the observation device without actually observing anything, then just look at the result to see if it's electrical interference that's creating the change?

 

I'd imagine those are experiments that have already been done.

 

They're good questions because they foreground areas for clarification but I personally can't get enough information from your post to suggest an answer. It's impossible to make assumptions based on the question...e.g. I guess for the question to be valid they'd have to be monitoring the result and the slits at the same time, and the results persist until both the observation device is disconnected and the information it previously recorded has been deleted (that both of these things have to apply (deletion of data and disconnection of observation device) for the result being observed to change?

 

You could try the Physics forum https://www.physicsforums.com/

Alright thanks for the link and info, 

We've been told, the measurement device is just some sort of an electron / charge detector as far as I know and yes they have done experiments to address your concerns, having the detector in place but switched off resulted in the electrons acting like waves so as if nothing was watching them, and having the detector switched on but not saving results anywhere also resulted in the electrons acting as waves, this is why this is all really strange, it's as if they know if the results exist anywhere.

[bartekxx12]

 

As for question 1. you'd probably need a measuring device that responds at the speed of light in order to verify if another device is responding at the same speed?

 

Question 2. Can someone store that information effectively enough in their own memory to maintain the change in results even when the observation device is disconnected and when the digital storage media is purged of the data. Also, will different forms of storage media also affect the result i.e. paper-based records of the experiment?

 

1. Well yes, the distance between the computer holding the information and the lab where the experiment was done would have to be big enough for any latency associated with checking if it's an interference pattern or not to be negligible, but they have done similar tests with quantum entanglement so I believe the equipment needed exists. 

2. We weren't told about paper storage or any other forms apart from computers and people, but yes, a persons memory will be enough because they have erased the results from computers after the researchers saw them and there was no interference pattern (as if the electrons knew the information was still somewhere)

 

[bartekxx12]

 

 

Also, if human brain matter is the storage medium then it may be as simple as just waiting for the matter to degrade (post mortem) for the results to change back again. Essentially you might be able to prove that the human spirit (if it exists separate from the human nervous system) is a repository of data but then you'd have a whole host of metaphysical concepts to deal with (such as the assumed basis for the efficacy of essential oils etc.)

 

Ultimately are you sure those results are correct? That the data can be stored remotely and the change will remain in effect?

 

 

Yes, I thought about that, I guess the best way to make sure the information isn't there physically would be to cremate the body. 

As for the distance... I don't know, we weren't told about that, I guess it would have to be tested if the computer with the data can be taken away.

[GuruMeditationError]

Yes, I thought about that, I guess the best way to make sure the information isn't there physically would be to cremate the body. 

As for the distance... I don't know, we weren't told about that, I guess it would have to be tested if the computer with the data can be taken away.

 

To be completely honest with you, I think anything I could come up with would have already been tested. The thing is when you get into the realm of "the spirit world" really you're getting into an area that's unprovable and unexaminable. You might be able to show that something's happening that we don't necessarily understand but you may as well argue that spirits from the fifth dimension have taken the memories to the dark side of Mars or some such thing. It is interesting though, and I'd love to see what results they could get if they did test that. Not sure what the legal implications of that kind of experiment would be but I'm sure it's possible to at least test it.

[bartekxx12]

 The thing is when you get into the realm of "the spirit world" really you're getting into an area that's unprovable and unexaminable. You might be able to show that something's happening that we don't necessarily understand but you may as well argue that spirits from the fifth dimension have taken the memories to the dark side of Mars or some such thing. 

 

Yeah I guess no matter what the outcome of experiment 2 would be it would really just create more questions. Would be really interesting though. 

[Lewellyn]

aaaaand not physics, metaphysics.

[GuruMeditationError]

aaaaand not physics, metaphysics.

 

I can totally see how it might sound like metaphysics but the double split experiment is physics. The second question might potentially prompt results analogous to claims made for certain metaphysical concepts. 

[Lewellyn]

I can totally see how it might sound like metaphysics but the double split experiment is physics. The second question might potentially prompt results analogous to claims made for certain metaphysical concepts. 

 

The double slit experiment is physics, everything else was metaphysics and also garbled nonsense. 

[GuruMeditationError]

The double slit experiment is physics, everything else was metaphysics and also garbled nonsense. 

 

That's your opinion, you're welcome to it and I'm not going to try and talk you out of it, but I don't agree.

[Lewellyn]

That's your opinion, you're welcome to it and I'm not going to try and talk you out of it, but I don't agree.

 

It's not opinion, it's fact.

 

The video was bullshit and filled with metaphysical nonsense about how matter "behaves differently while observed" it is bullshit and undermines the actual natural science that goes into the field of quantum physics. The questions posed assume that the video is correct, which it was not.

 

The single/double+ slit experiments are used to commonly explain that light has properties of a wave. Light behaves as both a ray ("particles" of light are called photons) and as a wave.

 

1. Because of this could they not find out if "the information" about whether or not data about the experiment is stored anywhere travels faster than the speed of light? Just by recording the results about which slit the electrons went through on a computer, not looking at them and transporting the computer somewhere far away and then have someone delete the results at an agreed on time and if a wave pattern appears at exactly the same time the data is erased then the information transfer was instant, if not they could work out the speed that it happened at.

 

Bullshit word salad that assumes that the video was correct.

 

2. Could it be used to figure out if there is any sort of life after death? If the results were shown ONLY to someone who will die soon (someone very ill), and then they were deleted off the computer, that would make that person the only thing that holds the data. If once the person dies an interference pattern appears that would suggest that the information no longer exists anywhere. If however they stay behaving as particles, that would suggest that the information is still somewhere... with the person.

 

Metaphysics is a traditional branch of philosophy concerned with explaining the fundamental nature of being and the world that encompasses it, although the term is not easily defined. Traditionally, metaphysics attempts to answer two basic questions in the broadest possible terms:

What is ultimately there?

What is it like?

 

It's philosophy, not natural science. It's metaphysics, not physics.

 

You might as well go to this youtube channel talking about water's "consciousness" to get your degree:

 

[GuruMeditationError]

It's not opinion, it's fact.

 

To be honest, I think you're misreading me.

 

There's an interesting take on water retaining some kind of spiritual memory of a previous additive here (Aromatherapy)... http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4405

 

Just to clarify, I don't believe in Aromatherapy.