First PC

[karl0508]

Looks perfect to me. However it seems that lately I've been the only one giving you recommendations so take that with a grain of salt,

 

Its the extra for cpu, is it worth it? honestly??

[Lotus]

Its the extra for cpu, is it worth it? honestly??

Yes and no. Yes for heavy editing, no for gaming. It really depends on what youre using it for. I only brought it up because you said you wanted to build a seperate rig for editing, and with this CPU you can do everything on one rig. If this prevents you from having to build a second machine then hell yeah its worth it. However from a pure gaming persoective, it isnt worth it and the i5-4460 will do the job just fine.

[karl0508]

Yes and no. Yes for heavy editing, no for gaming. It really depends on what youre using it for. I only brought it up because you said you wanted to build a seperate rig for editing, and with this CPU you can do everything on one rig. If this prevents you from having to build a second machine then hell yeah its worth it. However from a pure gaming persoective, it isnt worth it and the i5-4460 will do the job just fine.

 

Its not heavy editing only like light light weight images really

[Lotus]

Its not heavy editing only like light light weight images really

Well the i5-4460 can handle light to medium editing just fine. The Xeon is basically a full workstation CPU that can handle extremely demanding multithreaded tasks (it just also happens to handle games extremely well too. it wouldnt even bottleneck a GTX 980) If you dont have that stressful of a workload then the i5 will suffice. Just dont build a seperate rig. That would be the biggest expense. If the Xeon prevents that, then the extra expense of the Xeon is completely justified, but if the i5 is sufficent for your only rig then there's no need for the Xeon.

[karl0508]

Well the i5-4460 can handle light to medium editing just fine. The Xeon is basically a full workstation CPU that can handle extremely demanding multithreaded tasks (it just also happens to handle games extremely well too. it wouldnt even bottleneck a GTX 980) If you dont have that stressful of a workload then the i5 will suffice. Just dont build a seperate rig. That would be the biggest expense. If the Xeon prevents that, then the extra expense is completely justified, but if the i5 is sufficent for your only rig then there's no need for the Xeon.

Can always change to xeon

[Lotus]

Can always change to xeon

That too. If you dont mind the hassle of selling the i5 if you decide it isnt enough, you can always just buy the Xeon then. They fit in exactly the same builds. You wouldnt even have to reinstall windows as you dont even change the motherboard.

[karl0508]

That too. If you dont mind the hassle of selling the i5 if you decide it isnt enough, you can always just buy the Xeon then. They fit in exactly the same builds. You wouldnt even have to reinstall windows as you dont even change the motherboard.

 

Thats what i'll do

 

Best place for windows?

[Lotus]

Thats what i'll do

Best place for windows?

Are you by any chance a student? If so you can pick it up direct from Microsoft via the Dreamspark Program (at least it used to be called that) for pennies on the dollar. Other than that, there's no getting around buying a new OEM copy without doing something shady.

[karl0508]

Are you by any chance a student? If so you can pick it up direct from Microsoft via the Dreamspark Program (at least it used to be called that) for pennies on the dollar. Other than that, there's no getting around buying a new OEM copy without doing something shady.

 

I don't want oem rather retail so i can transfer licence,

 

On your thing about wifi i don't mind as box is in my room, so a h97 mitx board will do 

[Lotus]

I don't want oem rather retail so i can transfer licence,

 

On your thing about wifi i don't mind as box is in my room, so a h97 mitx board will do

Then you know more than i do about windows options in your area.

And even the cheapest h97 itx board has wifi, and thats the one I selected. You could go down to an i5-4440 and an h81 itx board, but I personally wouldnt do it, and you would forever be without wifi unless you used a clunky USB dongle. However if thats what youre lookig for its certainly a viable option. I5-4440 + h81 motherboard.

[karl0508]

Then you know more than i do about windows options in your area.

And even the cheapest h97 itx board has wifi, and thats the one I selected. You could go down to an i5-4440 and an h81 itx board, but I personally wouldnt do it, and you would forever be without wifi unless you used a clunky USB dongle. However if thats what youre lookig for its certainly a viable option. I5-4440 + h81 motherboard.

Whats the difference between the H97 and z87, as in which is better to get?

[karl0508]

Whats the difference between the H97 and z87, as in which is better to get?

 

Didnt realise how much more mini itx is

[brob]

I don't want oem rather retail so i can transfer licence,

 

On your thing about wifi i don't mind as box is in my room, so a h97 mitx board will do 

 

My understanding is that Microsoft allows a "Personal Use License" when someone installs an OEM version on a system they built for their own personal use. http://personaluselicense.windows.com/en-US/default.aspx is the license agreement. There is a section that deals with how the license can be moved.

 

Not sure if you will be able to access it, but http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en-gb/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/personal-use-license.aspx#fbid=0EamMFNJ89J provides a bit more information.

[Lotus]

Okay, so when it comes to the letter, Z means it supports overclocking of K series CPUs (like I5-4690k) while H means it doesn't. Since you arent using a K series CPU, theres no benefit to a Z chipset motherboard.

The number means basically what series: 90 series chipsets (h97, z97) support haswell refresh CPUs out of the box (like the 4460 and Xeon E3 1231 V3), while the 80 series chipsets only support original haswell CPUs out of the box, although they can support haswell refresh CPUs with a bios update. The catch is you need a working CPU to update the bios and you need to update the bios to make a haswell refresh cpu work, so its best to pair 80 series motherboards only with original haswell CPUs like the i5-4440.

H97 and H87 can have 4 dimms, while h81 can only support 2 (dimm= memory slot). Since ITX builds can only have 2 anyway, there's no downside of h81 vs h87. There is no H91 chipset.

Im skipping a few things that dont really matter like b series boards (designed for businesses) and the different amount of sata ports available to each chipset because honestly even the h81 has sufficient sata ports for an HDD, SSD, and optical drive which is usually the most you'll see an average user make use of.

If you notice, none of these features are performance. The board either has it or it doesn't. True a Z chipset can lead to better performance, but thats due to the overclocking feature and in reality its the CPU that is giving you better performance, and this only works with an unlocked CPU (basically a K series), and youll only get the most out of it with an aftermarket CPU cooler as well.

AMD AM3+ socket has a whole other level of complexity though when you get into dealing with FX 6 and 8 core CPUs as they all demand more power than any LGA1150 cpu needs, meaning you then have to also worry about power delivery on the motherboard.

[karl0508]

Well, you cant reuse the case even with the HAF stacker. Theyre designed so that you can have two sepatae systems together one stacked on top of another. I personally dont see a use for that as only people who run servers really have a need for multiple separate systems, and they have rackmounted systems already. I personally would not purchase the HAF stacker as I see no real justification for the expense. However I'm not saying it's a bad case or that it wouldnt work.

The real reason to go mITX is to get a much smaller case, and the Elite 120 is very small and still fits all of the components, which is why I chose it. If you dont like the aesthetics of it, then it's that simple though and you should pick a different case, so long as youre okay with the extra expense.

 

After reviewing cost and cooling opportunity i've decided to go for mATX, as we talked about i can always have this as an editing station by changing to xeon, and a 200r are something like that isn't that bad to move, plus i can go water cooled gpu if i decided to go crossfire, couldn't do that with mitx plus ifi cant sell the i5 4460 can build itx system after for partner

[karl0508]

Okay, so when it comes to the letter, Z means it supports overclocking of K series CPUs (like I5-4690k) while H means it doesn't. Since you arent using a K series CPU, theres no benefit to a Z chipset motherboard.

The number means basically what series: 90 series chipsets (h97, z97) support haswell refresh CPUs out of the box (like the 4460 and Xeon E3 1231 V3), while the 80 series chipsets only support original haswell CPUs out of the box, although they can support haswell refresh CPUs with a bios update. The catch is you need a working CPU to update the bios and you need to update the bios to make a haswell refresh cpu work, so its best to pair 80 series motherboards only with original haswell CPUs like the i5-4440.

H97 and H87 can have 4 dimms, while h81 can only support 2 (dimm= memory slot). Since ITX builds can only have 2 anyway, there's no downside of h81 vs h87. There is no H91 chipset.

Im skipping a few things that dont really matter like b series boards (designed for businesses) and the different amount of sata ports available to each chipset because honestly even the h81 has sufficient sata ports for an HDD, SSD, and optical drive which is usually the most you'll see an average user make use of.

If you notice, none of these features are performance. The board either has it or it doesn't. True a Z chipset can lead to better performance, but thats due to the overclocking feature and in reality its the CPU that is giving you better performance, and this only works with an unlocked CPU (basically a K series), and youll only get the most out of it with an aftermarket CPU cooler as well.

AMD AM3+ socket has a whole other level of complexity though when you get into dealing with FX 6 and 8 core CPUs as they all demand more power than any LGA1150 cpu needs, meaning you then have to also worry about power delivery on the motherboard.

A z97 is cheaper than a h97 if i swap to atx

see this one

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/gigabyte-ga-z97p-d3-intel-z97-s1150-ddr3-pcie-30-(x16)-2-way-crossfirex-hdmi-atx

[Lotus]

A z97 is cheaper than a h97 if i swap to atx

see this one

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/gigabyte-ga-z97p-d3-intel-z97-s1150-ddr3-pcie-30-(x16)-2-way-crossfirex-hdmi-atx

If you can get it cheaper there's no downside. Its not like having extra features is a bad thing. It's just usually you have to pay a price for it. That is one good deal.

[karl0508]

If you can get it cheaper there's no downside. Its not like having extra features is a bad thing. It's just usually you have to pay a price for it. That is one good deal.

Would this be better???

 

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/msi-z97-pc-mate-intel-z97-s1150-ddr3-pcie-30-(x16)-2-way-crossfirex-d-sub-dvi-d-hdmi-atx

 

Or would this be even better?

 

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-z97-p-intel-z97-motherboard-s1150-ddr3-pcie-30-(x16)-m2-d-sub-(vga)-dvi-d-hdmi-atx

 

 

 

Are msi good? they have bad AMD record, this is same price as gigabyte but more extras

[karl0508]

Gone with this build:-

 

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/zw8xNG

[Lotus]

MSI is a top tier brand. Either of those motherboards will work great. The reason why AMD boards typically fail go back to what I was talking about in the chipset post. If you get an FX-8 core cpu, you have to get a motherboard that can handle the power demands. Many people dont know this and just assume because the socket is the same, the motherboard will work, and then they cheap out on the motherboard so it overheats and eventually dies because it cant handle it. Its not the motherboards fault (well okay, it could throttle instead of overheat, but that circuitry comes with added cost), it's the end-user's fault for that bad pairing.

[Lotus]

Gone with this build:-

 

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/zw8xNG

That build looks great to me.

[karl0508]

That build looks great to me.

swapped for asus mother board

 

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/jTtND3

 

However can go with pc mate for £5 more but think asus is better brand, do you agree??

[Lotus]

Asus typically has better utilities that go along with it like fan control software, but both are good brands. In the end, youre not likely to notice a difference, and if there is one it would simply be an ease of setting up configurations, not a performance or even everyday difference. Usually when features and price are similar, people tend to pick whichever board they think looks the best. Really there is no wrong answer here. I personally always choose whichever is cheapest so long as it doesnt clash with my color scheme.

[karl0508]

the asus is 5 pound more and i dont really have a colour scheme the msi is blue and black the asus is gold and black, but the asus has a higher rating on pc advisor, has 5 star and the msi has 4.5 so may aswell go with asus

 

and every one i know who has one uses asus so might as well go asus

[karl0508]

the asus is 5 pound more and i dont really have a colour scheme the msi is blue and black the asus is gold and black, but the asus has a higher rating on pc advisor, has 5 star and the msi has 4.5 so may aswell go with asus

 

and every one i know who has one uses asus so might as well go asus

or as i'm not over clocking over looked the h87 which is only £61, £10 cheaper

 

Is that going to be the best option as im not overclocking? that £10 can be put somewhere else better like gpu

 

so its

msi

 

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/msi-h97-pc-mate-s1150-ddr3-pcie-30-(x16)-2-way-crossfirex-d-sub-dvi-d-hdmi-atx 

 

vs

 

asus

 

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-z97-p-intel-z97-motherboard-s1150-ddr3-pcie-30-(x16)-m2-d-sub-(vga)-dvi-d-hdmi-atx