4 Bay NAS

[perplex]

ok i got a couple of questions

first of im looking at spending about $300 - $400 on a unit, then getting 4 3TB WD red drives

im looking between the "Synology DS413J" and "QNAP TS-412"

im wanting something quiet, fast and low power (i said low power, because people have said build a pc)

so the questions

1. what do you recommend and why?

2. the QNAP has 2 esata, does that mean i can add 2 external drives and put them into the raid? or it will only be a separate storage?

3. do you have any other recommendations? if so, what is it and why.

4. does anyone have any real world speeds of reading and writing to these NAS?

5. any other information will be good

thanks

[looney]

the QNAP has 2 esata' date=' does that mean i can add 2 external drives and put them into the raid? or it will only be a separate storage?[/quote']

I don't believe the firmware allows you to do this, they will just be separate drives. but you can still access them over the network

does anyone have any real world speeds of reading and writing to these NAS?

I have tested them both, Synology will mas out the 1GB/s link, same goes for the QNAP but that has 2 links so you can use 1 PC to copy at 1GB/s and then another PC can use the second port and still get 40MB/s, but that also depends on the drives (i was using WD Black).

do you have any other recommendations? if so' date=' what is it and why.[/quote']

Nope for this budget they are both very nice nas systems, not really anything else worth looking at in that range)

what do you recommend and why?

personally i really like the DSM environment (the synologys firmware), but i also really like to have 2GB/s link (QNAP).

how many computers will access the nas, and how often? the 2 x1GB/s seems to be the only thing that differentiates the 2 systems IMO

[perplex]

the 2 ESATA can they go in raid together? or just solo storage?

2-3 computers accessing it, and a WD Live to stream, access it couple of times a day

with the 2x1GB/s how does that work? just plug both into a switch and it will use both?

how about the sound? are they loud? or you just changed the fan?

write speeds, what about them?

[looney]

the 2 ESATA can they go in raid together? or just solo storage?

No, they will be two solo drive independently accessible over the network.

2-3 computers accessing it' date=' and a WD Live to stream, access it couple of times a day with the 2x1GB/s how does that work? just plug both into a switch and it will use both? [/quote']

Yes just plug them both in, within the nas software you have multiple options:

• Multi-IP, you can set a IP for both NIC's, both will be used by different clients (1 client will not connect to 2 at the same time but 2 clients will eacht use one of the NIC's)
  
• Trunking/Teaming, this gives the following options:
  
  • Balance-rr, it will use both nic's to send packets in a sequential order (you need a managed switch for this)
    
  • Active Backup, it will use 1 nic's and keep the other one at a standby in case nic 1 fails (normal switch)
    
  • Balance XOR, will use look at the packets and make sure packets for client X will go over nic X and packets for client Y over nic Y (you need a managed switch for this)
    
  • Broadcast, use both nic's for all traffic, will also keep working with a nic failure (you need a managed switch for this)
    
  • Aggregation, will send traffic over all ports, but also looks at packets like XOR, using a diff algorithm, also has fault tolerance (you need a managed switch for this)
    
  • Balance-tlb, load balance, will send packets on the the nic with the least amount of traffic on it (normal switch)
    
  • Balance-alb, same as tlb but alb will focus on incoming packets, so good for writes (normal switch)
    

Of those i would go for aggregation if you switch supports it, if it doesn't then go for tlb or alb depending on whether you'l mostly be writing or reading.

Remember that this only applies to the QNAP

how about the sound? are they loud? or you just changed the fan?

I can't remember the QNAP, but the Synology is very quiet, also i would not recommend changing the fans, they are firmware controlled and it may cause overheating problems, also depending on the product it may void the warranty.

write speeds' date=' what about them?[/quote']

Write speeds will again depend on you drives just like the read speeds, i was running WD Black's at RAID 5, and i was getting a steady 90MB/s if i remember correctly.

(the reason i don't know the sound and and write exactly is because the nas systems where not mine, i simply configured them for friends)

Now having answered your questions, i would personally recommend the Synology as i don't believe the 1 nic will cause problems within you network.

You will only notice it when you decide to write a large file to the nas while streaming to your WD Live.

But that probably wont happen as you cant be behind your computer transfering files, and watching a movie at the same time :p

If you have any more question just let me know :)

[perplex]

im guessing they both have auto back up, with the 2 ESATA could you tell one of them to back up to the other?

right now im just using a normal average switch, im guessing i will need a router for the 2 Ethernet lines to take full advantage

the main reason i was looking at the QNAP is its $50 cheaper and its got more features like ESATA and 2 Ethernet ports, but i am wanting something quiet and ive heard the QNAP is loud

i guess if the ESATA ports cant be backed up to each other its kinda usless, and i would have to buy a good external case that powers down the hard drive if its not in use, im not sure if there are any. i know there is things like this " http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=177_287&products_id=21639 " where i know it will be safe but dont think it will power its self off if not in use

[looney]

im guessing they both have auto back up, with the 2 ESATA could you tell one of them to back up to the other?

right now im just using a normal average switch, im guessing i will need a router for the 2 Ethernet lines to take full advantage

the main reason i was looking at the QNAP is its $50 cheaper and its got more features like ESATA and 2 Ethernet ports, but i am wanting something quiet and ive heard the QNAP is loud

i guess if the ESATA ports cant be backed up to each other its kinda usless, and i would have to buy a good external case that powers down the hard drive if its not in use, im not sure if there are any. i know there is things like this " http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=177_287&products_id=21639 " where i know it will be safe but dont think it will power its self off if not in use

QNAP cheaper?, over here its the other way around :p

I would recommend connecting everything to a good switch (all pc's, media players, the whole bunch)

That way the router only needs to handle the internet packets, the Ethernet packets will be handled by the switch.

I'll have to look into the usb to usb backup, it might be possible (i dont see any reason why it shouldnt be)

I will get back to you tomorrow, for now i need some sleep :p

[perplex]

im guessing they both have auto back up, with the 2 ESATA could you tell one of them to back up to the other?

right now im just using a normal average switch, im guessing i will need a router for the 2 Ethernet lines to take full advantage

the main reason i was looking at the QNAP is its $50 cheaper and its got more features like ESATA and 2 Ethernet ports, but i am wanting something quiet and ive heard the QNAP is loud

i guess if the ESATA ports cant be backed up to each other its kinda usless, and i would have to buy a good external case that powers down the hard drive if its not in use, im not sure if there are any. i know there is things like this " http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=177_287&products_id=21639 " where i know it will be safe but dont think it will power its self off if not in use

yea look

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=617&products_id=16950

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=617&products_id=21264

but a switch you cant login to am i correct?

you said ill need a "a managed switch" isnt that a router? (not a modem)

[looney]

if its cheaper then go for the QNAP, the only thing i don't know about that one it the sound.

A normal gigabit switch will do just what you need.

A managed switch is not a router, its a switch with extra setting (VLAN, trunking, etc, etc) but you don't need that.

So if i where you id buy a nice simple gigabit switch that has enough ports for all you wired networking equipment (and a few extra in case you get new stuff)

You can start a topic in the networking forum about that, i'm always looking at that part of the forum so i can help you out there.

[perplex]

alright

well if anyone knows how loud the QNAP is please post

thanks

[perplex]

anyone know if its loud?

[looney]

Don't think anyone knows :(

I did find this though: http://www.avforums.com/forums/netwo...s-vs-qnap.html

But i don't know his definition of quit :confused:

[perplex]

lol yea its a hard one.. so no one has this NAS?

[perplex]

bump :P

hows the sound with the QNAP!

[perplex]

ok last bump, if no one reply im guessing so one has it.. maybe its for a reason lol

also

is there a big difference between the WD green and WD red?

yes i know red are for NAS and higher reliability but is that really true? would i notice any difference between red and green?, i know ill save 200 bucks with the green

[looney]

Never use the newer green drive in a RAID configuration.

Red drives are fine, though i would always recommend that you look at the manufacturers Hardware/HDD Compatibility List (HCL)

If a drive is listed in the HCL then it should work.

For the Synonoly nas i would recommend the Seagate Baracuda ST3000DM001, they are (in the Netherlands) the cheapest drives in the HCL, i also used them in the NAS i build for my friend, and im running a few of the 2TB version in my 26TB Server.

Though QNAP says the following about the drive:

These hard drives models have passed QNAP lab's compatibility verifications. However' date=' some users have reported unstable experiences with these hard drives. Users who encounter any issues with these hard drive models are welcome to [/size']contact our tech support for direct assistance. The manufacturer has released a new firmware version for these hard drive models. Please check this link for more information.

For QNAP the cheapest drives are the Toshiba DT01ACA300, but i have no experience with those, so i would not recommend them as im not going to recommend something i haven't tested.

[perplex]

ok so ive been looking around and it seems with today CPU's you can get really low power, like a NAS

i saw someone said they are using

i3 3225 with HD4000

8GB GSkill Ares RAM

Asus P8Z77 Mobo

Sandisk extreme 120GB SSD

Seasonic X-400 Gold Fanless

Noctua NH-L12 cooler

and it only draws 40watts maxed

so i was going to do something like this

Motherboard

ASRock B75 Pro3-M $69

CPU

Intel G1610 $45

Ram

G.Skill Ripjaws-X F3-12800CL9D-4GBXL 4G Kit(2Gx2) DDR3 1600 $33

Hard Drive (boot drive)

OCZ Vertex4 SATA3 64G $79

Power Supply Unit

Corsair CX-430M $80 (wanted modular so i can have less cables)

Case

not sure, i like the BitFenix Prodigy, but i know motherboard wont fit

Fractal Design Define mini is nice but i was wanting something abit smaller, any thoughts? need a smooth sleek design about $100

so im guessing something like that would run at lower watts.

and will be better than a NAS box because its more powerful and more options, its about the same price as what im looking in a NAS box also, but i can have more drives with this, and the motherboard has 8 Sata ports so, i think i can do 7 HD in raid and 1 for boot yea?

im guessing id install FreeNas or something else on it,

does windows server 2012 be able to put any size hard drive in raid in? or is that only drobo? because i have a bunch of WD green drives to use, untill i get my WD Red drives

EDIT - i just forgot i dont think that motherboard can do raid.... so maybe a upgrade to the ASRock Z77 PRO4-M, since it have 8 ports can i do 7 in raid? or will it only do to one chipset so only 6 in raid and 2 on the other chipset for the boot drive?

[looney]

Cool,

First off id recommend you to take a look at this topic for some inspiration: http://linustechtips.com/main/forum/storage-solutions/7147-storage-show-off-topic

so i was going to do something like this Motherboard ASRock B75 Pro3-M $69 CPU Intel G1610 $45 Ram G.Skill Ripjaws-X F3-12800CL9D-4GBXL 4G Kit(2Gx2) DDR3 1600 $33 Hard Drive (boot drive) OCZ Vertex4 SATA3 64G $79 Power Supply Unit Corsair CX-430M $80 (wanted modular so i can have less cables)

Hardware seems to be oke, though for ZFS you will need more ram and cpu power.

Personally im a big fan of FlexRAID ($60), its a windows based snapshot RAID. Because its snapshot bases it doesn't require constant calculation from the CPU.

FlexRAID does not give speed improvements though, its as fast as a normal disk, and if you choose to do this then just go for Seagate Baracuda ST3000DM001 drives.

The other option would be something like freenas, but if you use ZFS then the cpu may be under-powered (no sure though)

so im guessing something like that would run at lower watts. and will be better than a NAS box because its more powerful and more options' date=' its about the same price as what im looking in a NAS box also, but i can have more drives with this, and the motherboard has 8 Sata ports so, i think i can do 7 HD in raid and 1 for boot yea?[/quote']

Yes its should be pretty low power, not as low as a nas but if you go for FlexRAID you will still have windows which you can use for other windows based server aps.

does windows server 2012 be able to put any size hard drive in raid in? or is that only drobo? because i have a bunch of WD green drives to use' date=' untill i get my WD Red drives [/quote']

FlexRAID will support you to pool different sizes but i wont recommend it, just like i wont recommend using green drives in any RAID solution.

EDIT - i just forgot i dont think that motherboard can do raid.... so maybe a upgrade to the ASRock Z77 PRO4-M' date=' since it have 8 ports can i do 7 in raid? or will it only do to one chipset so only 6 in raid and 2 on the other chipset for the boot drive? [/quote']

The motherboard does not need to support RAID when you use something like FreeNAS, OpenMediaVault, or FlexRAID, the software will handle the RAID.

So all you need is SATA ports, which is why a lot of people use IBM M1015 cards to expand their ports, no RAID functions just ports.

If you have any more questions about software RAID, especially snapshot RAID (FlexRAID) just let me know.

[perplex]

what do you mean by "ZFS"?

i can get more ram if needed, and seems there are a few programs i could use

the IBM M1015 is abit to expensive for my budget right now, but the 8 port motherboard should do for a while, only advantage for the IBM M1015 for now is then i could get a micro ATX motherboard and then get a smaller case but yea..

i didnt know you could do raid with out the support from the motherboard, but yea software raid hmm

so whats the difference between software raid and i guess hardware raid (motherboard)?

other question is, say you have this software raid installed on your boot drive. you have your raid 5 and your boot drive fails.. im guessing the software installs on the raid 5 and when you reinstall on your boot drive, it will see you have raid 5 already?

[perplex]

not sure why my post isnt showing up... ill write it again

[perplex]

Cool,

First off id recommend you to take a look at this topic for some inspiration: http://linustechtips.com/main/forum/storage-solutions/7147-storage-show-off-topic

so i was going to do something like this Motherboard ASRock B75 Pro3-M $69 CPU Intel G1610 $45 Ram G.Skill Ripjaws-X F3-12800CL9D-4GBXL 4G Kit(2Gx2) DDR3 1600 $33 Hard Drive (boot drive) OCZ Vertex4 SATA3 64G $79 Power Supply Unit Corsair CX-430M $80 (wanted modular so i can have less cables)

Hardware seems to be oke, though for ZFS you will need more ram and cpu power.

Personally im a big fan of FlexRAID ($60), its a windows based snapshot RAID. Because its snapshot bases it doesn't require constant calculation from the CPU.

FlexRAID does not give speed improvements though, its as fast as a normal disk, and if you choose to do this then just go for Seagate Baracuda ST3000DM001 drives.

The other option would be something like freenas, but if you use ZFS then the cpu may be under-powered (no sure though)

so im guessing something like that would run at lower watts. and will be better than a NAS box because its more powerful and more options' date=' its about the same price as what im looking in a NAS box also, but i can have more drives with this, and the motherboard has 8 Sata ports so, i think i can do 7 HD in raid and 1 for boot yea?[/quote']

Yes its should be pretty low power, not as low as a nas but if you go for FlexRAID you will still have windows which you can use for other windows based server aps.

does windows server 2012 be able to put any size hard drive in raid in? or is that only drobo? because i have a bunch of WD green drives to use' date=' untill i get my WD Red drives [/quote']

FlexRAID will support you to pool different sizes but i wont recommend it, just like i wont recommend using green drives in any RAID solution.

EDIT - i just forgot i dont think that motherboard can do raid.... so maybe a upgrade to the ASRock Z77 PRO4-M' date=' since it have 8 ports can i do 7 in raid? or will it only do to one chipset so only 6 in raid and 2 on the other chipset for the boot drive? [/quote']

The motherboard does not need to support RAID when you use something like FreeNAS, OpenMediaVault, or FlexRAID, the software will handle the RAID.

So all you need is SATA ports, which is why a lot of people use IBM M1015 cards to expand their ports, no RAID functions just ports.

If you have any more questions about software RAID, especially snapshot RAID (FlexRAID) just let me know.

for some reason my post isnt showing up... let me try this

what do you mean by "ZFS"?

i can get more ram if needed, and seems there are a few programs i could use

the IBM M1015 is abit to expensive for my budget right now, but the 8 port motherboard should do for a while, only advantage for the IBM M1015 for now is then i could get a micro ATX motherboard and then get a smaller case but yea..

i didnt know you could do raid with out the support from the motherboard, but yea software raid hmm

so whats the difference between software raid and i guess hardware raid (motherboard)?

other question is, say you have this software raid installed on your boot drive. you have your raid 5 and your boot drive fails.. im guessing the software installs on the raid 5 and when you reinstall on your boot drive, it will see you have raid 5 already?

what does a NAS box use? software raid?

[perplex]

test to see if it posts

[looney]

not sure why my post isnt showing up... ill write it again

post is there but you need to type in the letter 2 in the "page X of X" its a forum bug

[looney]

Cool,

First off id recommend you to take a look at this topic for some inspiration: http://linustechtips.com/main/forum/storage-solutions/7147-storage-show-off-topic

so i was going to do something like this Motherboard ASRock B75 Pro3-M $69 CPU Intel G1610 $45 Ram G.Skill Ripjaws-X F3-12800CL9D-4GBXL 4G Kit(2Gx2) DDR3 1600 $33 Hard Drive (boot drive) OCZ Vertex4 SATA3 64G $79 Power Supply Unit Corsair CX-430M $80 (wanted modular so i can have less cables)

Hardware seems to be oke, though for ZFS you will need more ram and cpu power.

Personally im a big fan of FlexRAID ($60), its a windows based snapshot RAID. Because its snapshot bases it doesn't require constant calculation from the CPU.

FlexRAID does not give speed improvements though, its as fast as a normal disk, and if you choose to do this then just go for Seagate Baracuda ST3000DM001 drives.

The other option would be something like freenas, but if you use ZFS then the cpu may be under-powered (no sure though)

so im guessing something like that would run at lower watts. and will be better than a NAS box because its more powerful and more options' date=' its about the same price as what im looking in a NAS box also, but i can have more drives with this, and the motherboard has 8 Sata ports so, i think i can do 7 HD in raid and 1 for boot yea?[/quote']

Yes its should be pretty low power, not as low as a nas but if you go for FlexRAID you will still have windows which you can use for other windows based server aps.

does windows server 2012 be able to put any size hard drive in raid in? or is that only drobo? because i have a bunch of WD green drives to use' date=' untill i get my WD Red drives [/quote']

FlexRAID will support you to pool different sizes but i wont recommend it, just like i wont recommend using green drives in any RAID solution.

EDIT - i just forgot i dont think that motherboard can do raid.... so maybe a upgrade to the ASRock Z77 PRO4-M' date=' since it have 8 ports can i do 7 in raid? or will it only do to one chipset so only 6 in raid and 2 on the other chipset for the boot drive? [/quote']

The motherboard does not need to support RAID when you use something like FreeNAS, OpenMediaVault, or FlexRAID, the software will handle the RAID.

So all you need is SATA ports, which is why a lot of people use IBM M1015 cards to expand their ports, no RAID functions just ports.

If you have any more questions about software RAID, especially snapshot RAID (FlexRAID) just let me know.

post is there but you need to type in the letter 2 in the "page X of X" its a forum bug

[perplex]

lol, ok i see it, nice forum bug lol, thanks

i thought i needed another page but it only said 1 of 1 so yea. lol

[looney]

what do you mean by "ZFS"? i can get more ram if needed' date='[/quote']

Its a file system that is popular for linux based storage servers, and you can use RAID-Z as the ZFS raid solution (freenas supports ZFS)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS

i could use the IBM M1015 is abit to expensive for my budget right now' date=' but the 8 port motherboard should do for a while, only advantage for the IBM M1015 for now is then i could get a micro ATX motherboard and then get a smaller case but yea.. [/quote']

I know the motherboard is fine, even the non raid one, im just saying that when you want to get more then 8 drives than that would be the best way to do so.

i didnt know you could do raid with out the support from the motherboard' date=' but yea software raid hmm so whats the difference between software raid and i guess hardware raid (motherboard)? [/quote']

http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/raid-h...-software.html

Hardware RAID is always faster but for simple storage and streaming you don't need the extra speed.

I also have a 1,5TB array which is for running VM's that one is hardware-raid, with 10K SAS drives because i need the high speeds.

But that thing is almost as expensive as my 26TB server.

say you have this software raid installed on your boot drive. you have your raid 5 and your boot drive fails.. im guessing the software installs on the raid 5 and when you reinstall on your boot drive' date=' it will see you have raid 5 already?[/quote']

With FlexRAID all the files will be stored in simple NTFS FS, so if the bootdrive fails all data will still be there. it has a option to backup the software config data, so all youll need to do is install windows and FlexRAID and then import the config backup. or you can just remake the array without any data-loss. You can even have 4 disks with data and add a 5th empty disk as the parity drive and that way it will keep all the data but make it redundant.

In essence i really recommend FlexRAID as its not recourse intensive (though 8GB ram is not a bad idea) and its almost 100% foolproof, if you mess something up you will still have most of the data as its stored in simple NTFS.

And again, for some more inspiration look at this topic, you can always comment on other peoples builds if you have questions.

http://linustechtips.com/main/forum/storage-solutions/7147-storage-show-off-topic