Education path for network engineer

[Joshcanread]

Hello,

 

I am well underway to completing my degree in computer systems and networking in Australia and I want to break into the network engineering space but I don't know how to do that. 

 

The way I see it, I'll probably become tech support then work my way up the ranks while working towards CCNA/CCNP and things like that but that is still not a very clear pathway. 

 

How did you get to where you are with your position and education? 

 

TIA

[LAwLz]

In some countries, "engineer" is a protected title, so it’s often more useful to focus on the skills and tasks you want to do rather than the specific title. For example, do you want to design networks, troubleshoot them, or build them from scratch? Each of these requires slightly different skills and paths.

 

I work as a consultant at a VAR (value-added reseller) and MSP (managed service provider). The "VAR" side of the business means we sell hardware and software but also offer services around those products. For example, if a customer says, "We need a new switch," we assess their requirements, suggest the right switch, and offer to install it in their network. The "MSP" part means we operate our own data center and host services for customers. For example, if a customer needs a server but doesn’t want to deal with buying, maintaining, and patching it, we offer to host it in our data center for a monthly fee.

 

I currently work as a "solutions architect" specializing in computer networking. It's an advisory role and my responsibilities include:

1. Design: Translating customer needs into network solutions. For example have meetings with customers to figure out what they actually need in terms of equipment and configuration. They might just say "we need secure Wi-Fi", so it's up to me to think of a way to achieve that and then suggest it to them.
    
2. Project Support: Supporting project managers with technical advice. For example, a project manager might need to know "what needs to be done to achieve this and who can do it?" or they might say "this particular task, are there any dependencies in order to get it finished?".
    
3. Consulting: Advising customers on improvements to their network. I might identify an area for improvement. For example when everyone started working from home during COVID I advised a lot of customers to look over how their VPN worked, because in a lot of cases it simply wasn't designed to handle everyone working from home.
    
4. Support: Assisting my colleagues with their work. Since I have a lot of experience, come up with recommendations and often tell the bosses and project managers "This person can do this task", I also get a lot of questions from my colleagues like "When you suggested this, what was your goal?" or "can you elaborate on this thing you wrote?".

I’m supposed to focus on design and consulting, but since we’re short on senior networking consultants, I also end up implementing some of the more advanced designs myself. I do enjoy that part though since it keeps my technical skills sharp. The idea of my role however is that I am suppose to be far more hands-off with the actual implementation than I am.

 

 

This was my path:

 

1. Studied computer networking at a university for two years. The study material was mostly based on Cisco study guides for CCNA and CCNP, although not quite as deep. It also included some general stuff like programming, server-related courses and so on.
    
2. Got a job as technical support (phone) at an ISP for a few months.
    
3. I then got employed as a junior network consultant at the same VAR/MSP I still work at today. I spent half a year or so doing some helpdesk-like duties at customer sites, mostly networking tasks but also some general support.
    
4. Then I got moved to our MSP business unit where I was tasked with keeping our data center and its network running. It was also supposed to be a helpdesk-like job, just focusing on our own data center and not really having much contact with customers or end users. Just putting out fires so to speak. However, I kept being asked to participate in various external projects so I was basically 50% internal support, 50% regular networking consultant.
    
5. After a few years, I got asked if I wanted to be a senior consultant working with external customers again full-time (since I was already doing a lot of external projects). I said yes but before I even had the chance to start that role one of our solution architects quit so that spot opened up. So I applied for that job instead and got it. Still at the same employer though, just different groups within the same company.

 

Certifications have been a big part of my career development. Most years, I complete at least one certification. Sometimes I self-study, but my employer often approves of week-long instructor-led courses. So most years I've been away for a week, usually during the summer when a lot of customers have time off and new requests aren't coming in.

The certifications I’ve earned are in no particular order:

 

CCNA routing and switching (old, doesn't exist anymore)

CCNA Wireless (old, doesn't exist anymore)

CCNA Security (old, doesn't exist anymore)

CCNA (the new one)

CCNP ENCOR

CCNP ENARSI

Fortinet NSE4

Palo Alto PCNSA

 

 

If I had to advise someone on how to do what I did, I would say:

• Get Certified or Educated: Start with the Cisco CCNA or a relevant degree. You're already doing this and I think it's great.
• Start in an Entry-Level Role: Network technician, helpdesk, or IT support jobs are common starting points.
• Find a Supportive Employer: Look for companies that offer training and certification support. I am very lucky that my employer allows me to further educate myself, and I highly recommend you try and find someone like that too.
• Be Proactive About Projects: Volunteer for extra tasks or projects, but don't overestimate your abilities. Be honest when you don’t know something and show you’re willing to learn. If you get assigned an entry-level position at a company where you can grow, show that you are interested in the more difficult tasks without being annoying about it.

[cmndr]

At least in the US... 

1. Get any semi-related degree
2. Get a part time job that's relevant WHILE doing your degree. 
3. Get internships related. 
4. repeated 2+3 but a bit better each time. 

Getting to 2+3 requires hardcore resume and interview prep. Try to figure out what questions will be asked (look up online) and then have someone with high standards grill you. Also write out your top 10-15 talking points (from a marketing yourself perspective) on your resume. On a separate document, for each make a paragraph that has hard hitting details while also being concise. Get those paragraphs reviewed. Doing the writing makes answering questions in interviews way easier. 

[Net3]

fuuny 

On 12/20/2024 at 3:58 PM, LAwLz said:

 but since we’re short on senior networking consultants, I also end up implementing some of the more advanced designs myself. I do enjoy that part though since it keeps my technical skills sharp. The idea of my role however is that I am suppose to be far more hands-off with the actual implementation than I am.

 

1. Studied computer networking at a university for two years. The study material was mostly based on Cisco study guides for CCNA and CCNP, although not quite as deep. It also included some general stuff like programming, server-related courses and so on.

Kinda interesting, i thought you'd say i had to go above and beyond and do all of these crazy things just to end up here. 

 

I also tried for a position for SA, in short i got rejected because of the lack of my degree and no certs. Even the lowest end position, which is support engineer, basically a janitor HH denied me from trying. 

 

job specifcation was basically you just had to know had some experience there, there wasnt any degree requirement on describtion, and support for further education and cert pursuit. 

 

however, there is this one funny thing i cannot wrap my head around it, why would anyone want to work entery level position if they have like bachelor or master's degree, just out of my point of view i guess. 

[LAwLz]

9 hours ago, Net3 said:

Kinda interesting, i thought you'd say i had to go above and beyond and do all of these crazy things just to end up here. 

It's worth noting that all job markets are different and what worked for me might not work for you. There is usually not a clear step-by-step guide on how to achieve certain jobs like these, and I usually recommend people be cautious of advice that is along the lines of "just do X, Y, and Z, and you'll end up in position A." Things are usually not that neat and tidy.

 

I've had colleagues who have taken similar steps but are still "stuck" in lower-level positions. Three people trying to do the same thing might lead to three different job titles, depending on timing, personal skills, market demand, and even luck. Sometimes it's less about the exact steps and more about how you leverage the opportunities that come your way.

 

 

10 hours ago, Net3 said:

however, there is this one funny thing i cannot wrap my head around it, why would anyone want to work entery level position if they have like bachelor or master's degree, just out of my point of view i guess. 

I get why that can seem like a mismatch. It feels like you’ve already "paid your dues" by completing your education and should be able to bypass those roles. The reality, though, is that a degree is often seen as just part of your foundation. It demonstrates your ability to learn and solve problems, but employers still value hands-on experience in addition to that.

 

 

It’s not just about technical experience either. Entry-level positions provide proof of skills like punctuality, teamwork, stress management, and professionalism. Qualities that aren’t always reflected in a degree. For instance, being on time, working effectively with different people, and behaving professionally in meetings are crucial in the workplace but aren't typically assessed during your studies. Memorizing answers for a test is one thing. Demonstrating these "soft skills" in a real-world setting is another.

 

 

 

That’s not to say a degree is useless. Far from it. In my experience (as someone occasionally involved in hiring), a degree often serves as evidence of a solid foundation upon which to build. If two candidates applied for the same role, and one was self-taught but claimed expertise in, say, MPLS, while the other had a degree and coursework credit related to MPLS, I’d likely trust the latter a bit more. Certain people tend to overestimate their own abilities, and in my experience, those who skip school and focus solely on self-study are often more likely to fall into this trap.

 

A degree acts as third-party validation of your claimed knowledge and provides a baseline level of credibility.

 

 

That said, a degree alone doesn't guarantee capability. We recently had a paid intern with a bachelor's degree in computer networks, and unfortunately, they are pretty terrible at their job. I even contacted their university because their lack of skills and knowledge made me question the legitimacy of their degree. But it turned out to be legitimate. My suspicion is that they relied heavily on tools like ChatGPT for assignments, including their thesis. The contrast between their written (like the thesis) and how they communicate in speech and instant messaging is dramatic to say the least. 

I also know the courses they took to earn their degree were primarily group assignments, so it’s entirely possible they let others in the group do the heavy lifting, earning a passing grade without contributing much.

 

 

While a degree opens doors and adds weight to your resume, it's the combination of your education, hands-on experience, and soft skills that ultimately determines your success.

An entry-level position could serve as a way to get your foot into the door of a company, and then quickly work you way up from there.

 

 

 

[cmndr]

On 12/22/2024 at 6:02 PM, Net3 said:

fuuny 

Kinda interesting, i thought you'd say i had to go above and beyond and do all of these crazy things just to end up here. 

 

I also tried for a position for SA, in short i got rejected because of the lack of my degree and no certs. Even the lowest end position, which is support engineer, basically a janitor HH denied me from trying. 

 

job specifcation was basically you just had to know had some experience there, there wasnt any degree requirement on describtion, and support for further education and cert pursuit. 

 

however, there is this one funny thing i cannot wrap my head around it, why would anyone want to work entery level position if they have like bachelor or master's degree, just out of my point of view i guess. 

Gain ANY experience. When you're in university, you're in a position where people will take chances on students. People do NOT take chances on recent graduates the same way. You absolutely need to be building out a resume if things in AU are anything like the US. If you only do the bare minimum (taking classes and getting decent grades) you'll get the bare minimum results.

Basically you need to figure out how to make it so you can say "I did something like this before and did well" during an interview.

Part time job at an Apple store, doing IT for a library or ANYTHING... 

 

Heck volunteer if you have to. 

And assume you won't get it your first try when interviewing. I didn't get into Google my first try (but did get an offer from them eventually) for example. Similar story for a few other places. 

 

----

 

I would STRONGLY suggest doing the "grunt work" while in university. Do it as either your part time job or do internships. It's better to do 2x 100 hour internships and to start in a GREAT job than to waste 2-5 years after college in a cruddy job. Do the BARE minimum to check the box (worthwhile experiences and good reputation where you went) without doing much more.

In the US, if you do things more or less right and have some luck you'll have ~3 decent/interesting experiences on your resume by the time you start your second to last year of university. (Relevant part time job, internship, volunteer experience, maybe study abroad somewhere like Cambridge or Oxford). Then you'll land a GOOD internship for the last summer before your final year and that internship turns into a full time job offer that's meaningful and not just "grunt work"

I actually stayed one extra term in college beyond what I could have to get an extra internship in. That internship in turn gave me a job offer (was initially going to be a network/systems support engineer but a VP decided to have me start as a senior analyst in his org, doing analytics). This was at a Fortune 100 company. I did NOT have an IT or engineering degree. 


I currently work doing something similar to Machine Learning Engineering. I have a graduate degree. NONE of my degrees are in engineering. I'm doing reasonably well and make about 5x the median income in the US (after taking a pay cut to move home for family reasons). The next time I job hop I hope to get to around 10x. 

[Net3]

On 12/23/2024 at 1:45 PM, LAwLz said:

 

A degree acts as third-party validation of your claimed knowledge and provides a baseline level of credibility.

 

 

That said, a degree alone doesn't guarantee capability.

 

 

While a degree opens doors and adds weight to your resume, it's the combination of your education, hands-on experience, and soft skills that ultimately determines your success.

 

 

 

 

would you say if someone doesnt have even a bachelor's degree, but has certs, would you consider him over someone with bachelor's degree? 

how would you compare someone who would argue his reasoning behind not getting higher degree of education for letting you know they feel like it's a waste of time compared to getting certificates and potentially some work experience. 

[LAwLz]

6 minutes ago, Net3 said:

would you say if someone doesnt have even a bachelor's degree, but has certs, would you consider him over someone with bachelor's degree? 

how would you compare someone who would argue his reasoning behind not getting higher degree of education for letting you know they feel like it's a waste of time compared to getting certificates and potentially some work experience. 

Personally?

It depends on what cert we're talking about and how they perform on the interview. I wouldn't recommend hiring someone without the interview part. A CCIE is definitely worth more than a short and rather easy degree.

A CCNA might not be worth more than a bachelor's degree, since I know the university in my city bases its bachelor's degree heavily on CCNP material. But as I said earlier, we recently hired a person with a bachelor's degree and they are completely useless.

 

However, it is worth mentioning that education is free in Sweden, so that might skew my perception of those who don't have a degree.

In Sweden, it is not uncommon for people not to want to spend money getting certified but instead opt for the free degrees they can get. My understanding is that it can be the reverse in the US, where a degree is far more expensive than getting a cert.

 

For me, a degree is kind of the baseline since it is free. A cert would be a cherry on top that would make you stick out. But it is also worth mentioning that right now we are having difficulties finding good people for networking consultant roles. As a result, we can't be as picky as we might want to be.

 

 

TL;DR

It's complicated