Recommendations for a build

[DeathLV]

Budget (including currency): 3000-3500EUR (including purchased parts)

Country: Latvia

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Gaming, streaming, sometimes productivity

Other details: buying now, intend to play with something like Samsung Neo G7 (4k, 165+Hz), no peripherals, buying from https://www.1a.lv/ or https://www.220.lv/ 

Strong preference for air cooling, as I do not trust water cooling. 

 

 

Existing parts:

CPU - AMD Ryzen™ 9 7800X3D (at the time of purchasing 450EUR) https://220.lv/lv/datortehnika/datoru-komponentes/procesori-cpu/procesors-amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d-100-000000910?id=29929691

Motherboard - Gigabyte X670 Aorus Elite AX (at the time of purchasing 230 EUR) https://www.1a.lv/p/matesplate-gigabyte-x670-aorus-elite-ax/h4s3

CPU cooler - Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE (54 EUR) https://www.1a.lv/p/gaisa-dzesetajs-procesoram-thermalright-phantom-spirit-120-se-110-mm-x-154-mm/qd2l

GPU - Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4080 Super OC, 16 GB, GDDR6X (1290 EUR) https://www.1a.lv/p/videokarte-gigabyte-geforce-rtx-4080-super-gv-n408sgaming-oc-16gd-16-gb-gddr6x/ob3g

RAM - Kingston Fury Beast KF560C30BBEAK2-64, DDR5, 64 GB, 6000 MHz (that's a kit of 32x2; 240 EUR; I understand this has that AMD thing for overclocking?) https://www.1a.lv/p/operativa-atmina-ram-kingston-fury-beast-kf560c30bbeak2-64-ddr5-64-gb-6000-mhz/ql9p

PSU - be quiet! Straight Power 12 1000 W, 13.5 cm (220 EUR) https://www.1a.lv/p/barosanas-bloks-be-quiet-straight-power-12-1000-w-13-5-cm/njr5

Windows 10 (135 EUR) https://220.lv/lv/datortehnika/programmatura/operetajsistemas/operetajsistema-microsoft-hav-00060?id=7691326

Case - Montech AIR 903 MAX (90 EUR) https://www.1a.lv/p/datora-korpuss-montech-air-903-max-caurspidiga-melna/llfr

SSDs are a bit of an issue: I want at least 4 TB of memory. I understand that there is 1 PCIe gen 5 m.2 slot and 3 gen 4 on that motherboard? But I also see that in some cases but not all it says that's an NVMe drive... I thought all of them were non-volatile? Or am I missing something? Which would be recommended? 

These are the gen5 I found available (may be more that I did not find) https://www.1a.lv/c/datoru-komponentes-tikla-produkti/atmina-hdd-un-ssd/cietie-diski-ssd/2vl?f=3jsZ24fZcvhZo4a1Zm013Zp9fkZrr2i&sort=price__asc

 

Assuming no difference:

SSD 1 (m.2 PCIe gen5; 329EUR): https://www.1a.lv/p/cietais-disks-ssd-gigabyte-aorus-m-2-2-tb/o21d

SSD 2 (m.2 PCIe gen4) depends on budget:

    Kingston Fury Renegade, M.2, 4 TB (295 EUR) https://www.1a.lv/p/cietais-disks-ssd-kingston-fury-renegade-m-2-4-tb/e6gl

    Kingston Fury Renegade, M.2, 2 TB (145 EUR) https://www.1a.lv/p/cietais-disks-ssd-kingston-fury-renegade-m-2-2-tb/dnqf

 

Any recommendations if I should use some other parts out of the ones available on the mentioned sites? Please let me know!

[Why_Me]

https://www.kaina24.lt/search?q=Montech+AIR+903+MAX

Montech AIR 903 MAX ATX Mid Tower Case

 

https://www.kaina24.lt/search?q=MSI+X670E+GAMING+PLUS+WIFI

MSI X670E GAMING PLUS WIFI

 

[DeathLV]

7 minutes ago, Why_Me said:

https://www.kaina24.lt/search?q=Montech+AIR+903+MAX

Montech AIR 903 MAX ATX Mid Tower Case

 

https://www.kaina24.lt/search?q=MSI+X670E+GAMING+PLUS+WIFI

MSI X670E GAMING PLUS WIFI

 

Hi!

 

Thanks for response!

As mentioned, the motherboard is purchased already.

About the case - I am from Latvia, not Lithuania, so I suppose you meant https://www.1a.lv/p/datora-korpuss-montech-air-903-max-caurspidiga-melna/llfr . 

The suggestion has been noted. However, if possible it would be nice if the front I/O would include at least one USB C port (is it 3.2 gen2 now? the main post has been updated to reflect this). Is my understanding correct that this case would include the 4 fans?

[Why_Me]

24 minutes ago, DeathLV said:

Hi!

 

Thanks for response!

As mentioned, the motherboard is purchased already.

About the case - I am from Latvia, not Lithuania, so I suppose you meant https://www.1a.lv/p/datora-korpuss-montech-air-903-max-caurspidiga-melna/llfr . 

The suggestion has been noted. However, if possible it would be nice if the front I/O would include at least one USB C port (is it 3.2 gen2 now? the main post has been updated to reflect this). Is my understanding correct that this case would include the 4 fans?

3x140mm front intake + 1x140mm exhaust

 

https://www.montechpc.com/en/products_detail.php?nid=355 

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/montech-air-903-max/  

[DeathLV]

50 minutes ago, Why_Me said:

3x140mm front intake + 1x140mm exhaust

 

https://www.montechpc.com/en/products_detail.php?nid=355 

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/montech-air-903-max/  

Thanks for the sources!

 

My apologies, this has been noted, the store has been informed about their error and I have added this to the list! Let me know if you have other recommendations for improvements in the build! (or if you can respond to the question about SSDs)

[Why_Me]

1 hour ago, DeathLV said:

Thanks for the sources!

 

My apologies, this has been noted, the store has been informed about their error and I have added this to the list! Let me know if you have other recommendations for improvements in the build! (or if you can respond to the question about SSDs)

https://www.dateks.lv/en/cenas/cietie-diski-ssd/1168072-mushkin-endora-4tb-m-2-gen4-x4  

 

https://mushkin.com/product/endora-4tb-mknssded4tb-d8/

 

[DeathLV]

7 minutes ago, Why_Me said:

https://www.dateks.lv/en/cenas/cietie-diski-ssd/1168072-mushkin-endora-4tb-m-2-gen4-x4  

 

https://mushkin.com/product/endora-4tb-mknssded4tb-d8/

 

Thanks for suggestions!

(To be honest, with the questions I moreso meant in this case about whether all of them are NVMe now or not and if not then what's the difference between NVMe and non-NVMe ones etc.)

[Why_Me]

21 minutes ago, DeathLV said:

Thanks for suggestions!

(To be honest, with the questions I moreso meant in this case about whether all of them are NVMe now or not and if not then what's the difference between NVMe and non-NVMe ones etc.)

M.2 NVMe SSD's screw onto your motherboard and use PCIe lanes. 2.5" SATA SSD's plug into your SATA ports and don't use PCIe lanes but they are slower. 

 

 

[DeathLV]

8 minutes ago, Why_Me said:

M.2 NVMe SSD's screw onto your motherboard and use PCIe lanes. 2.5" SATA SSD's plug into your SATA ports and don't use PCIe lanes but they are slower. 

 

 

I meant are all m.2 NVMe-s? Because in filters sections in internet stores there appear to be separate filters for like PCI-E x4 Gen5 NVMe 2.0 and PCIe 5.0 x4 and I was wondering if all m.2s are NVMes and therefore people are just being dumb or if there are none-NVMe m.2s and I should pay attention to that?

[Tan3l6]

SATA M.2 SSDs have 2 notches:

NVME only 1:

Theses days SATA M.2 drives are becoming quite rare.

[DeathLV]

1 hour ago, Tan3l6 said:

SATA M.2 SSDs have 2 notches:

NVME only 1:

Theses days SATA M.2 drives are becoming quite rare.

Thanks for your response! Does that mean all m.2 slots are NVMe m.2 compatible? Or at least those on the motherboard I plan to use?

[Tan3l6]

2 minutes ago, DeathLV said:

Thanks for your response! Does that mean all m.2 slots are NVMe m.2 compatible? Or at least those on the motherboard I plan to use?

Seems so: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X670-AORUS-ELITE-AX-rev-10-12/sp#sp

[DeathLV]

21 minutes ago, Tan3l6 said:

Seems so: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X670-AORUS-ELITE-AX-rev-10-12/sp#sp

Thanks for the information, let me know if you have any other suggestions about how to improve the build!

[BahnStormer]

M.2 = M.2 NVME.... all that changes between those slots is that some systems have a limited amount of PCIe bandwidth that can be provided to each slot.

 

If you buy a gen 5 drive (overpriced) and put it in the wrong slot, it will just run slower and may not have as good cooling (gen 5 drives tend to run hotter).

 

If you put a gen 3 or gen 4 PCIe drive into an gen 5 slot.... it will just run at the maximum for that drive. 

For X670+ boards, there is normally one slot that is PCie gen5 and another one or more that are PCIe gen4.

The board you have highlighted:

18 hours ago, Tan3l6 said:

 https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X670-AORUS-ELITE-AX-rev-10-12/sp#sp

...seems to have two gen 4 slots: [EDIT: please note that this spec seems to have changed since my original post and they are now stating 1x PCIe gen 5x4 M.2 and 1x PCIe4x4 M.2!!!]

Quote

 

Chipset:

1. 2 x M.2 connectors (Socket 3, M key, type 22110/2280 PCIe 4.0 x4/x2 SSD support) (M2C_SB, M2D_SB)

 

 

The other consideration is that when manufacturers go above the X670 minimum of 2x PCIe4 M.2 slots, they sometimes use extra chipsets, which can cause problems with speeds (some at PCIe gen3!) or problems with booting off some of the slots.

 

Something like the AsRock Steel Legend X670E has 1x PCIe5 and 3x PCIe4:

 

Edited December 18, 2024 by BahnStormer
correcting my misquote of the Gigabyte Aorus Elite X670 M.2 spec

[DeathLV]

32 minutes ago, BahnStormer said:

M.2 = M.2 NVME.... all that changes between those slots is that some systems have a limited amount of PCIe bandwidth that can be provided to each slot.

 

If you buy a gen 5 drive (overpriced) and put it in the wrong slot, it will just run slower and may not have as good cooling (gen 5 drives tend to run hotter).

 

If you put a gen 3 or gen 4 PCIe drive into an gen 5 slot.... it will just run at the maximum for that drive. 

For X670+ boards, there is normally one slot that is PCie gen5 and another one or more that are PCIe gen4.

The board you have highlighted:

...seems to have two gen 4 slots:

 

The other consideration is that when manufacturers go above the X670 minimum of 2x PCIe4 M.2 slots, they sometimes use extra chipsets, which can cause problems with speeds (some at PCIe gen3!) or probloems with booting off some of the slots.

 

Something like the AsRock Steel Legend X670E has 1x PCIe5 and 3x PCIe4:

 

Hi! Thanks for the detailed explanation!

 

So, from your source

1 x M.2 connector (M2A_CPU), integrated in the CPU, supporting Socket 3, M key, type 25110/22110/2580/2280 SSDs:

1. AMD Ryzen™ 7000 Series Processors/ Ryzen™ 9000 Series Processors support PCIe 5.0 x4/x2 SSDs

1 x M.2 connector (M2B_CPU), integrated in the CPU, supporting Socket 3, M key, type 22110/2280 SSDs:

1. AMD Ryzen™ 7000 Series Processors/ Ryzen™ 9000 Series Processors support PCIe 4.0 x4/x2 SSDs

would mean I can use one gen5 and one gen4 nvme m.2-s, right?

And therefore I could use either combination of the ssds I mentioned to their full potential?

 

Let me know also if you have suggestions about other parts!

[BahnStormer]

Don't bother with the gen5 SSD.... most people who have gen5 support still only get gen4 as the price just isn't worth it as there is a VERY little real world benefit, unless you rate your forum signature as a "real world benefit" XD... plus the board you're looking at only has gen 4 support!

 

To answer the question though: Technically yes, you should be fine to put a gen5 M.2 into a gen4 slot and then anothwr gen4 M.2 into the 2nd slot, but it is a waste of money to buy gen5.

 

If you're worried about storage expansion, I would seriously consider another board: that Aorus Elite AX is crazily over-priced for what it is!!

 

My AsRock Steel Legend was £208 (€250) and that has 4x M.2 slots: 1x PCIe Gen5 AND 3x Gen4 (not to mention WiFi 6E, 2x LAN connectors, etc)... 

 

I haven't tried the MSI AM5 boards, but there's also this:

MSI X670E Tomahawk has 4 M.2 slots too

https://www.dateks.lv/en/cenas/sistemplates-amd-procesoriem/963072-microstar-mag-x670e-tomahawk-wifi

 

and this AsRock X670E Pro RS has 5!
https://www.dateks.lv/en/cenas/sistemplates-amd-procesoriem/892126-asrock-x670e-pro-rs 

 

Looks like 1 x gen5, 3x gen4 and 1xgen3.... plus 6x SATA!

https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X670E Pro RS/index.asp

[DeathLV]

5 hours ago, BahnStormer said:

Don't bother with the gen5 SSD.... most people who have gen5 support still only get gen4 as the price just isn't worth it as there is a VERY little real world benefit, unless you rate your forum signature as a "real world benefit" XD... plus the board you're looking at only has gen 4 support!

 

To answer the question though: Technically yes, you should be fine to put a gen5 M.2 into a gen4 slot and then anothwr gen4 M.2 into the 2nd slot, but it is a waste of money to buy gen5.

 

If you're worried about storage expansion, I would seriously consider another board: that Aorus Elite AX is crazily over-priced for what it is!!

 

My AsRock Steel Legend was £208 (€250) and that has 4x M.2 slots: 1x PCIe Gen5 AND 3x Gen4 (not to mention WiFi 6E, 2x LAN connectors, etc)... 

 

I haven't tried the MSI AM5 boards, but there's also this:

MSI X670E Tomahawk has 4 M.2 slots too

https://www.dateks.lv/en/cenas/sistemplates-amd-procesoriem/963072-microstar-mag-x670e-tomahawk-wifi

 

and this AsRock X670E Pro RS has 5!
https://www.dateks.lv/en/cenas/sistemplates-amd-procesoriem/892126-asrock-x670e-pro-rs 

 

Looks like 1 x gen5, 3x gen4 and 1xgen3.... plus 6x SATA!

https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X670E Pro RS/index.asp

I dont understand why it would say on their page then the following, if there are no gen5 slots. Also, remember this is a system that is supposed to be easily upgradable for next 8 years:

Storage Interface

1 x M.2 connector (M2A_CPU), integrated in the CPU, supporting Socket 3, M key, type 25110/22110/2580/2280 SSDs:

1. AMD Ryzen™ 7000 Series Processors/ Ryzen™ 9000 Series Processors support PCIe 5.0 x4/x2 SSDs

[BahnStormer]

I stand corrected*!! Not sure which summary I saw of that board's specs but I thought it had 2x PCIe4, hence my quote of "2xM.2".

 

I can't see where I quoted that incorrect spec from and I apologise for not verifying it myself: it isn't in my screengrab history, so I appear to have completely misquoted it

 

I'll go back and add a few "[EDIT]" comments in case somebody reads one of my misleading posts without seeing the full thread!

 

From the spec you have posted and from what I can see on the Gigabyte site, it looks like is has at least: 1x PCIe5x4 and 1x PCIe4x4, but the layout is really inconsistent.

 

If you really like that board, I believe it is a decent quality product and I've never been disappointed with a Gigabyte board that I've bought. Just be aware that Gigabyte are cashing in on their "Aorus Elite" brand and there are a few features being cut considering the price; this is a the bare minimum number of M.2 slots you would expect on a €200+ motherboard (most in the €200-€300 range have 4 or 5 M.2 slots, albeit often with some at PCIe3x4).

[DeathLV]

11 minutes ago, BahnStormer said:

I stand corrected*!! Not sure which summary I saw of that board's specs but I thought it had 2x PCIe4!

 

From those specs, it looks like is has 2x M.2 in total: 1x PCIe5x4 and 1x PCIe4x4.

 

*I'll go back and add a few "[EDIT]" comments in case somebody reads one of my misleading posts without seeing the full thread!

 

If you really like that board, I believe it is a decent quality product and I've never been disappointed with a Gigabyte board that I've bought. Just be aware that Gigabyte are cashing in on their "Aorus Elite" brand and there are a few features being cut considering the price; this is a the bare minimum number of M.2 slots you would expect on a €200+ motherboard (most in the €200-€300 range have 4 or 5 M.2 slots, albeit often with some at PCIe3x4).

I simply have that board (and the cpu) already, so the question for this part was more so what m.2s can be used (which you have answered now). In terms of it would be dumb to get gen5 m.2 for gen4 slot.

 

The same circled point says there are 3 M.2 gen4 slots (i.e. 4 total, not 2).

 

Let me know if you have any other recommendations and/or suggestions related to displays for the following topic! Thanks in advance!: 

 

[BahnStormer]

7 minutes ago, DeathLV said:

The same circled point says there are 3 M.2 gen4 slots.

I tend to rely on the tech spec sheet, not the marketing graphics, but their layout is really weird and inconsistent:

 

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X670-AORUS-ELITE-AX-rev-10-12/sp#sp

 

It looks like it might have 1x gen5 and 1x gen4 on the CPU AND 2x gen 4 from the chipset, so FOUR in total (which is more normal for X670).... but I guess you can check that on the board

In my defence: the way they've indented them differently for the CPU and chipset support M.2s meant that it looked like the "chipset" part was just a summary...

 

[DeathLV]

3 minutes ago, BahnStormer said:

I tend to rely on the tech spec sheet, not the marketing graphics, but their layout is really weird and inconsistent:

 

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X670-AORUS-ELITE-AX-rev-10-12/sp#sp

 

It looks like it might have 1x gen5 and 1x gen4 on the CPU AND 2x gen 4 from the chipset, so FOUR in total (which is more normal for X670).... but I guess you can check that on the board

In my defence: the way they've indented them differently for the CPU and chipset support M.2s meant that it looked like the "chipset" part was just a summary...

 

 

Fair enough.

 

What is the difference whether it is from chipset or not? (sorry, if that is a really dumb question)

[BahnStormer]

M.2 is very flexible and backward/forward compatible with modern drives and motherboards.

 

You'll be fine with any mainstream M.2 in those slots as almost everything on the market is "M key" these days and motherboard slots are almost always 2280 length - certainly for the first few slots.

 

B-key was an SSD standard from about 10 years ago, to separate them out: I think there was something like the SSD's needing more voltage that would have fried earlier NVME drives.

 

I'll stand by my comments on going for PCIe gen4 though: unless PCIe gen5 M.2s have crashed in price recently, I would urge you to not to focus on getting a gen5 drive just so you can "match the slot".

 

Genuine PCIe5x4 drives are very fast, but there are very few use-cases where you will really notice the difference of that - possibly 8K video editing or something like that.

 

The only "gen5" drives that I've seen that were not stupidly overpriced were actually the same performance to their gen4 equivalent drives.... and then I realised that they were PCIe5x2, rather than PCIe4x4 (so the same bandwidth interface, the same controller, but with an extra adapter / translation layer), so probably fractionally slower!

 

I'm sure there's a valid reason for making that type of PCIe5x2 interface other than marketing, but I just can't think of it right now.

[BahnStormer]

28 minutes ago, DeathLV said:

Fair enough.

 

What is the difference whether it is from chipset or not? (sorry, if that is a really dumb question)

Not a dumb question.

 

Historically ALL IO had to go via one of two chipsets (aka the Southbridge for storage / Northbridge for RAM)... but for performance reasons a lot of this was integrated into the CPU: e.g. memory controller and SOME storage controllers too.

 

The problem is that the CPU has a finite number of direct devices that it can address.

 

Additional devices need to be connected  via a chipset: this is often the main difference between A-series, B-series and X-series motherboards, especially when you get to the "E" variants of those too (X670E = more IO channels than X670).... they allow additional devices.

 

Hence why you'll see this chart being quoted a lot: https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/chipsets/am5.html#specs

 

This extra IO (PCie lanes) is also a major selling point for Threadripper / Epyc CPUs: extra capacity to address more memory lanes / more storage devices at higher speeds.

 

The devices that connect directly to the CPU are (AFAIK) always bootable and they tend to have the higher bandwidth options (e.g. 1x PCIe gen5 and 1x gen4 on current CPUs).

 

The devices that connect via the chipset tend to be PCIe4 maximum for the first one and then dropping away depending on the chipset, so X670E will have more at PCIe4/5 than X670.
Some chipsets like B650 often only offer PCIe3 or potentially need to halve the PCIe4 bandwidth to PCIe4x2 if you enable multiple chipset M.2 devices. Sometimes you will also have to choose which chipset storage you want to use: 2x M.2 OR 4xSATA, but not both.

 

The obvious question, but something I have NOT tested: I don't think there is any performance difference between a CPU controlled PCIe4x4 and a chipset controlled PCIE4x4.

[DeathLV]

29 minutes ago, BahnStormer said:

Not a dumb question.

 

Historically ALL IO had to go via one of two chipsets (aka the Southbridge for storage / Northbridge for RAM)... but for performance reasons a lot of this was integrated into the CPU: e.g. memory controller and SOME storage controllers too.

 

The problem is that the CPU has a finite number of direct devices that it can address.

 

Additional devices need to be connected  via a chipset: this is often the main difference between A-series, B-series and X-series motherboards, especially when you get to the "E" variants of those too (X670E = more IO channels than X670).... they allow additional devices.

 

Hence why you'll see this chart being quoted a lot: https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/chipsets/am5.html#specs

 

This extra IO (PCie lanes) is also a major selling point for Threadripper / Epyc CPUs: extra capacity to address more memory lanes / more storage devices at higher speeds.

 

The devices that connect directly to the CPU are (AFAIK) always bootable and they tend to have the higher bandwidth options (e.g. 1x PCIe gen5 and 1x gen4 on current CPUs).

 

The devices that connect via the chipset tend to be PCIe4 maximum for the first one and then dropping away depending on the chipset, so X670E will have more at PCIe4/5 than X670.
Some chipsets like B650 often only offer PCIe3 or potentially need to halve the PCIe4 bandwidth to PCIe4x2 if you enable multiple chipset M.2 devices. Sometimes you will also have to choose which chipset storage you want to use: 2x M.2 OR 4xSATA, but not both.

 

The obvious question, but something I have NOT tested: I don't think there is any performance difference between a CPU controlled PCIe4x4 and a chipset controlled PCIE4x4.

Yeah, that was exactly my question. Thanks for your replies and your patience!

[DeathLV]

53 minutes ago, BahnStormer said:

M.2 is very flexible and backward/forward compatible with modern drives and motherboards.

 

You'll be fine with any mainstream M.2 in those slots as almost everything on the market is "M key" these days and motherboard slots are almost always 2280 length - certainly for the first few slots.

 

B-key was an SSD standard from about 10 years ago, to separate them out: I think there was something like the SSD's needing more voltage that would have fried earlier NVME drives.

 

I'll stand by my comments on going for PCIe gen4 though: unless PCIe gen5 M.2s have crashed in price recently, I would urge you to not to focus on getting a gen5 drive just so you can "match the slot".

 

Genuine PCIe5x4 drives are very fast, but there are very few use-cases where you will really notice the difference of that - possibly 8K video editing or something like that.

 

The only "gen5" drives that I've seen that were not stupidly overpriced were actually the same performance to their gen4 equivalent drives.... and then I realised that they were PCIe5x2, rather than PCIe4x4 (so the same bandwidth interface, the same controller, but with an extra adapter / translation layer), so probably fractionally slower!

 

I'm sure there's a valid reason for making that type of PCIe5x2 interface other than marketing, but I just can't think of it right now.

gen5 at the moment costs about twice as much for the same memory amount as gen4 (so 2TB gen 5 vs 2TB gen 4).