Minisforum issues

[Cranky_doodle]

Hello,

I recently had to return my old Minisforum HM90 due to random crashes that where not fixable by reinstalling windows or replacing ram or SSD, but after less than 2 years of use.
furtunately Amazon return process is very simple and consumer friendly, so I got to purchase a new computer, sinceI wanted to upgrade I bought the Minisforum HX80G, as it is one of few Mini PC's with integrated graphics.

HOWEVER, I quickly noticed that the integrated GPU is doing absolutely nothing, it shows up in device manager as active, it shows up in task manager, but it always stays at 0% on everything.
one other thing, I also noticed that the integrated graphics temperature is reporting rather high for how cool the air from the cooler is and for how little load is on the system, like 55°C jumping to 75°C within a second under very light load, like loading a web page.

assuming that the reported temperature was wrong I installed HWinfo to check on the actual CPU temperature.
Here I have 60°C, if I start cinebench it reaches 90°C within 2-3 seconds, that is even after I set the power limit to 80% to somehow keep these temperature jumps under control.

so, where do I go from here?
I don't feel like sending an other PC back because my laptop is not that suitable for gaming(and also because it's kind of a waste of resources).

should I contact minisforum and hope that they deem me worthy of their time to actually respond?
or should I go ahead and check if they forgot to put their liquid metal on the CPU and it's running dry now?

on the HM90 it wasn't really "liquid" metal but reminded me more of the Indium solder used on the IHS of desktop CPU's in consistency
so is there any risk if I take off the heatsink that I rip off the CPU too or should it be actually liquid metal?

are there other Mini PC brands with a decent GPU that are reasonably priced that I can go to?
or is Minisforum normally "good" and I just got bad luck?

[emosun]

5 hours ago, Cranky_doodle said:

GPU is doing absolutely nothing, it shows up in device manager as active, it shows up in task manager, but it always stays at 0% on everything.

use something like gpu-z to see if it shows it ever being active

5 hours ago, Cranky_doodle said:

Here I have 60°C, if I start cinebench it reaches 90°C within 2-3 seconds, that is even after I set the power limit to 80% to somehow keep these temperature jumps under control.

that would make sense considering that small of a machine doesn't have any thermal mass to slow down the temperature changes of the cpu. more than likely it's just a copper plate with some heat pipes so not much to soak up the heat.

that being said , that machine is more geared toward doing basic tasks , not cinebench runs.

[Cranky_doodle]

1 minute ago, emosun said:

use something like gpu-z to see if it shows it ever being active

that would make sense considering that small of a machine doesn't have any thermal mass to slow down the temperature changes of the cpu. more than likely it's just a copper plate with some heat pipes so not much to soak up the heat.

that being said , that machine is more geared toward doing basic tasks , not cinebench runs.

please look up the device, Minisforum Neptune HX80G

it's actually intended as a gaming PC, has a 5800H and radeon 6600M.
The heatsink is pretty big, like more than half the total size is just for the heatsink with 3 heatpipes for the CPU and 4 heatpipes for the GPU.

and comparing the GPU temps with the CPU is what confuses me.
the GPU, while consuming significantly more power is 20-30°C cooler than the CPU while gaming(right now 85°C CPU and 50°C GPU in Helldivers 2)

shouldn't it be, if anything, the opposite?
I think especially because both components share the same thermal mass it shouldn't be that different.

[emosun]

3 minutes ago, Cranky_doodle said:

and comparing the GPU temps with the CPU is what confuses me.
the GPU, while consuming significantly more power is 20-30°C cooler than the CPU while gaming(right now 85°C CPU and 50°C GPU in Helldivers 2)

shouldn't it be, if anything, the opposite?
I think especially because both components share the same thermal mass it shouldn't be that different.

no , if your thermal mass is small then to chips sharing a single mass wouldn't share the same temps due to the mass not being able to soak up either chip.

6 minutes ago, Cranky_doodle said:

please look up the device, Minisforum Neptune HX80G

i did , it appears to just be some laptop components in a very small case with a small heatsink. so i wouldn't expect something like that to be very good with cooling.
 

[Cranky_doodle]

laptop components, yes, small case, no.

I would compare the heatsink to a Cooler Master 212 in size.
the entire PC weighs 2.4KG, I would assume at least 30% is the cooler.

irregardless, no matter how small the thermal mass, it shouldn't jump by 30 degrees in 2-3 seconds with the fan blowing cold air a while after that until it decides to actually cool something.

I had the HM90 before this one, I could easily manage to keep the CPU under 65°C, even my gaming laptop stays below 70°C after hours of gaming, neither would see temperature fluctuations like that. while the laptop has a significantly smaller heatsink.

on a different matter:
how concerned should I be if I hear a buzzing sound from the computer, like right at the grid frequency?
shouldn't the DC Powersupply that came with it put out DC voltage?

it's not coilwhine(it has that too, but only when it's cold and under light load), it kind of sounds like a cheap DC-AC inverter from some sketchy chinese site, most noticable when I start a game, it gets quieter after a while, but never really goes away.

[emosun]

2 hours ago, Cranky_doodle said:

laptop components, yes, small case, no.

just to confirm , this is the computer you are using correct? or is yours a different machine from this one?

[emosun]

2 hours ago, Cranky_doodle said:

irregardless, no matter how small the thermal mass, it shouldn't jump by 30 degrees in 2-3 seconds with the fan blowing cold air a while after that until it decides to actually cool something.

this is where you may not be getting either correct info/experience in that cpu's that use smaller coolers DO jump temperatures faster than cpu's with more robust coolers. The jumps aren't really important so long as the temp doesn't exceed the chips limits. but usually these jumps are either a result of the cooler being small (not much thermal mass) , or the cooler being mounted improperly which results in a thermal paste bridge linking the two components rather than the components making solid contact.

Seeing as the machine and cooler are several times smaller than most desktops , this more likely the explanation. it's not impossible for the cooler to be mounted incorrectly however and if you want to take it apart and try to improve the contact between them then thats definitely an option

2 hours ago, Cranky_doodle said:

how concerned should I be if I hear a buzzing

from what you've described it's either

A. totally normal and is in fact just a result of AC to DC conversion being noisy
B. a sign a cheap/faulty caps in whatever device is doing it

We/you don't really have an oscilloscope or schematic to pinpoint the exact cap or design flaws it may have so you could just exchange the machine for another and see if it does the same thing. If the next machine is 100% identical it will only really confirm that it's either normal to make noise , or they are all equally cheaply made.

[Cranky_doodle]

I may not have an oszilloscope, but I have a multimeter

Voltage: 18.85V
Frequency: 50Hz
Duty cycle: 11.9%

I don't know exactly what this means, but it looks kinda noisy for DC if my cheap multimeter can pick it up on the output.
so there is no fault with the device itself, it seems more like a power supply issue to me.

I'll try to reach sustomer support about a replacement PSU maybe.

if I can't get one, maybe I order some super capacitors and attatch them somehow to the output on the PSU

as for the temps, apperantly that actually is "normal" for this device
still think it's weird that at 50W the CPU reaches 92°C while the GPU uses 80W and only reaches 66°C
 

[emosun]

6 hours ago, Cranky_doodle said:

still think it's weird that at 50W the CPU reaches 92°C while the GPU uses 80W and only reaches 66°C
 

Well I could say why that is but I don't feel like saying it a 3rd time. I can only do so much , can't fix people

[Cranky_doodle]

On 7/15/2024 at 3:42 PM, emosun said:

Well I could say why that is but I don't feel like saying it a 3rd time. I can only do so much , can't fix people

well, you can't fix people, but I can fix machines
whatever the issue actually is, I just lowered the thermal limit for the CPU for now, so I no longer get these insane spikes.
I did read some articles suggesting that the liquid metal application may be poor or the cooler isn't making proper contact and some phase change pads would(and did for those that bothered to do it) solve the issue.

Setting a lower TDP for the CPU and throttling back the GPU got me 60-63°C on either component while playing Helldivers 2 with the system also being perfectly silent.

which is odd, because reducing the fan speed(which I also did while I was in the bios) should impact the temps more if the thermal capacity was in issue and not the TIM.