Workstation/gaming 13600k or 7800X3D?

[Firefoxes]

Budget (including currency): 2200 EUR

Country: Spain

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for:

• Software development (Virtualization is essential)
• AI (fine tunning small open-source LLM, training CNN and as much as consumer grade gpu can handle)
• Gaming (FHD ultrawide 75Hz planning mid-term upgrade to QHD 144Hz). Games: Cyberpunk 2077, MSFS 2024, Minecraft, Assetto Corsa

Picked parts:

 

CPU: Intel Core i5-13600K 3.5 GHz

Mobo: ASUS PRIME Z790-P WIFI

GPU: PNY GeForce RTX 4070 Ti SUPER VERTO OC Triple Fan 16GB

RAM: Kingston FURY Beast DDR5 6000MHz 32GB 2x16GB CL36

Case: Fractal Design North XL TG

PSU: Corsair RMx Series RM1000x 1000W 80 Plus Gold Modular

CPU cooler: Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black

Storage: WD BLACK SN770 1TB SSD

Additional cooling: Exhaust rear 140mm fan, model not decided

 

I think everything is good for my needs but I am a bit concerned about the LGA1700 ILM socket problems (I have seen some posts of i5 13600k suffering thermal throttling). I could also go for AMD with Ryzen 7 7800X3D and MSI X670E GAMING PLUS WIFI (around 100 EUR more). I know AM5 socket will be supported longer than the LGA1700 but I do not want to loose much "workstation performance". I have never experimented with undervolting, overclocking and other kind of tweaks that can be done to the CPU so, What should I go for AMD or INTEL?

 

Reasons why I have choosen each component:

• CPU: i5-13600k is pretty popular and cheap. Integrated graphics version just in case I want to upgrade later so I can keep it as a server or computer for non GPU intensive task.
• Mobo: It is the cheapest board available with 3 M2 slots and bluetooth that uses Z790 chipset (discounted price I found 210 EUR).
• GPU: One of the cheapest 4070 TI super I could find. 16gb is helpfull for AI stuff.
• RAM: People say it works and it has a clean design.
• Case: It matches my setup aesthetics. It has nice airflow due to the front intake. It is big enough to handle noctua's cooler and any other future upgrade.
• PSU: This build should use around 60% of the psu capacity so it will stay quiet and efficient.
• CPU cooler: I have never used noctua before (I am a laptop user), so I have chosen the most famous one. It is pretty hot where I live so I hope it helps.
• Storage: I already have an SN770 2TB and it works. Mobo does not support Gen5 so I stick to 2 WB black SN770 (1TB and 2TB).
• Addittonal cooling: As I said, It is pretty hot where I live so I hope it helps having a rear exhaust fan to move some hot air out.

[Tetras]

25 minutes ago, Firefoxes said:

I know AM5 socket will be supported longer than the LGA1700 but I do not want to loose much "workstation performance".

What 'workstation' apps/tasks do you do exactly?

 

Many of these things use the GPU far more than the CPU now and while the 13600K performs decently well against entry-level AMD CPUs (like the 7500F/7600 and to a lesser extent: 7700), the 7900 is generally faster in moderately/heavily multithreaded apps and the 7800X3D isn't really an issue for single thread (a bit behind, but not something you're likely to notice in short burst workloads).

[podkall]

33 minutes ago, Firefoxes said:

• Software development (Virtualization is essential)
• AI (fine tunning small open-source LLM, training CNN and as much as consumer grade gpu can handle)
• Gaming (FHD ultrawide 75Hz planning mid-term upgrade to QHD 144Hz). Games: Cyberpunk 2077, MSFS 2024, Minecraft, Assetto Corsa

do any of these workstation/creative things require lot of CPU cores? because if not the AMD is king at gaming at the moment.

[porina]

With a big depends on the software, Zen 5 is said to have significant improvements to its AVX-512 implementation. If the software can make use of that, it may be worth waiting a month for it.

[GreenLeaf]

7800X3D for life

[Firefoxes]

52 minutes ago, Tetras said:

What 'workstation' apps/tasks do you do exactly?

 

49 minutes ago, podkall said:

do any of these workstation/creative things require lot of CPU cores? because if not the AMD is king at gaming at the moment.

 

The most CPU hungry task that I will perform is virtualization. I usually use VMs in order to test apps in different enviroments. As long as virtualization works great and I can use a VM while having programming IDE, web browsers and other light apps in the background I am fine. I was afraid of AMD "3D" feature could have a negative impact in compiling or multitasking while virtualizing. I usually use one VM with 2-3 cores (VMWare Workstation or VirtualBox).

 

I am upgrading from a laptop with an i7-8750H so I guess both options will be a nice upgrade, just want to make sure I do not loose big performance these kind of tasks If I choose AMD.

 

Last time I had to pick parts for a tower build Nvidia GeForce 500 series was just launch, that is why I am lost with some of the new concepts. Ultimately, I would like to avoid excesive tinkering in the BIOS to get the CPU running without any risk and fine under load (gaming might be the most demanding single core task that I will perform during long runs).

 

Thank you guys for you response

[Tetras]

1 minute ago, Firefoxes said:

The most CPU hungry task that I will perform is virtualization. I usually use VMs in order to test apps in different enviroments. As long as virtualization works great and I can use a VM while having programming IDE, web browsers and other light apps in the background I am fine. I was afraid of AMD "3D" feature could have a negative impact in compiling or multitasking while virtualizing. I usually use one VM with 2-3 cores (VMWare Workstation or VirtualBox).

 

I am upgrading from a laptop with an i7-8750H so I guess both options will be a nice upgrade, just want to make sure I do not loose big performance these kind of tasks If I choose AMD.

If you need cores then I'd get the 14700xx instead of the 13600K, since it has 8 P-Cores and 12 E-Cores, versus the 6 P-Cores and 8 E-Cores of the 13600K.

 

You could make room in the budget by getting a peerless assassin or phantom spirit instead of the noctua and downgrade the PSU to a 850 model (preferably one with a native 16 pin for your 4070 Ti Super).

[podkall]

14 minutes ago, Firefoxes said:

I was afraid of AMD "3D" feature could have a negative impact in compiling or multitasking while virtualizing. I usually use one VM with 2-3 cores (VMWare Workstation or VirtualBox).

the 3D has no downsides on 7800x3D because all cores share the 3D cache, it's just more L3 cache, very good for games, for workstations it's kind of meh to no difference really

 

10 minutes ago, Tetras said:

If you need cores then I'd get the 14700xx instead of the 13600K, since it has 8 P-Cores and 12 E-Cores, versus the 6 P-Cores and 8 E-Cores of the 13600K.

 

You could make room in the budget by getting a peerless assassin or phantom spirit instead of the noctua and downgrade the PSU to a 850 model (preferably one with a native 16 pin for your 4070 Ti Super).

Intel with many cores lets more multitask, the only downside of course would be the cooler requirement

[Tetras]

Just now, podkall said:

Intel with many cores lets more multitask, the only downside of course would be the cooler requirement

Yeah, the peerless assassin/phantom spirit I suggested to replace the Noctua would struggle with the 14700K if it is run power unlimited, or for long periods @ 100% load.

[Firefoxes]

10 hours ago, Tetras said:

If you need cores then I'd get the 14700xx instead of the 13600K, since it has 8 P-Cores and 12 E-Cores, versus the 6 P-Cores and 8 E-Cores of the 13600K.

I do not know anything about asymmetrical CPU design, but I guess "E-Cores" are just general purpose tunned down cores right?

 

I come from an I7-8750H which has 6 cores (12 threads) at base clock speed 2.2GHz and turbo 4.10GHz (a bit less now due to degradation and thermals issues). If the i5-13600kx E-Cores (base 2.6GHz boost 3.9 GHz) peform like the i7-8750H cores then I am more than fine.

[Tetras]

3 hours ago, Firefoxes said:

I do not know anything about asymmetrical CPU design, but I guess "E-Cores" are just general purpose tunned down cores right?

 

I come from an I7-8750H which has 6 cores (12 threads) at base clock speed 2.2GHz and turbo 4.10GHz (a bit less now due to degradation and thermals issues). If the i5-13600kx E-Cores (base 2.6GHz boost 3.9 GHz) peform like the i7-8750H cores then I am more than fine.

The E-Cores (efficiency) are roughly comparable to the cores used in 6th-10th gen CPUs. They're used for a lot of things (the scheduler decides), like background tasks and to improve performance in anything that is multithreaded. Without the E-Cores, the Intel CPUs are not very competitive with AMD in multithreading.

 

The P-Cores (performance) are used for gaming and demanding apps, they give you most of the single thread performance.

 

Sometimes I've seen comments about VMs that they prefer the same cores (I don't know how true that is, maybe depends on the software), in which case you might be better off with an AMD CPU like the 7900 (12 cores, all the same). If you don't use many cores in your VMs, then I don't think it would matter.