Mesh System Or Better Router

[Unkindness]

Hi all,

First off, I'm a complete novice when it comes to network systems. Short of pluging in an ethernet or WiFi password and the occasional yet surprisingly effective off and on again fix, network tech is not my strong suit.

 

I live in a concrete (block and poured), 3 floored, 1940's era but updated with a remodel home. Currently I am struggling to get a WiFi signal to the top floor. House is about 30-40 ft (10-13m) from ground to roof. Router is currently located ground floor. It's the usual modem/router combo from ISP.

 

QUESTION: am I better to run a mesh in my house or will a better router give me the range I need? I get a weak signal up there but it struggles with streaming.

 

No real black spots in the house as the WiFi runs out at the end of the garden which would be the same distance from the currently router as the top floor. Can't move router due to where the cable comes into the house which also runs my TV service.

 

Ideally I will turn the IPS unit to a modem only and use either the new router or mesh just to give more range.

 

Any advice is appreciated!

Cheers

[PowerPCFan]

1 hour ago, Unkindness said:

Hi all,

First off, I'm a complete novice when it comes to network systems. Short of pluging in an ethernet or WiFi password and the occasional yet surprisingly effective off and on again fix, network tech is not my strong suit.

 

I live in a concrete (block and poured), 3 floored, 1940's era but updated with a remodel home. Currently I am struggling to get a WiFi signal to the top floor. House is about 30-40 ft (10-13m) from ground to roof. Router is currently located ground floor. It's the usual modem/router combo from ISP.

 

QUESTION: am I better to run a mesh in my house or will a better router give me the range I need? I get a weak signal up there but it struggles with streaming.

 

No real black spots in the house as the WiFi runs out at the end of the garden which would be the same distance from the currently router as the top floor. Can't move router due to where the cable comes into the house which also runs my TV service.

 

Ideally I will turn the IPS unit to a modem only and use either the new router or mesh just to give more range.

 

Any advice is appreciated!

Cheers

I have a mesh system but IMO they're really expensive for what it is (basically just a router that comes with a wireless access point)

 

Your best options: 

 

1. "Less good but working" fix - just get an extender like this one: Wifi Extender

The only downside is that it will be a "separate" network - your main network would be called "My Wifi Network" and the extender's network would be "My Wifi Network-EXT" 

 

2. "Better option" - get a second inexpensive router. Run an ethernet cable from your ISP's router to the new router and put the new router in Access Point mode. 

 

3. Just get a mesh system, I have Orbi but I've heard Eero is pretty good and significantly cheaper

[Falcon1986]

1 hour ago, Unkindness said:

I live in a concrete (block and poured), 3 floored, 1940's era but updated with a remodel home. Currently I am struggling to get a WiFi signal to the top floor.

Are there any internal concrete walls? Do the floors have any concrete as well or all wood?

 

1 hour ago, Unkindness said:

No real black spots in the house as the WiFi runs out at the end of the garden which would be the same distance from the currently router as the top floor.

WiFi broadcasts from omnidirectional antennae do well in the horizontal plane, but not so well in the vertical plane.

 

Additionally, signal attenuation occurs rapidly as WiFi passes through walls and floors, the degree to which is determined by the material in those walls or floors.

 

1 hour ago, Unkindness said:

Ideally I will turn the IPS unit to a modem only and use either the new router or mesh just to give more range.

The problem with mesh in houses with a lot of concrete/brick walls is that it’s relying on WiFi for node-to-node communication in addition to node-to-client communication. If the wireless connection with the primary unit is slow, then everything downstream will be slow.

 

Some have gotten around this by running ethernet as backhaul between the primary unit and nodes to eliminate attenuation at this level.

 

In the true sense, being an all-wireless solution, mesh was designed for the typical modern American home: mostly wooden/plaster internal walls and floors. If your home is like this, the best mesh setup would be a tri-band system which has two 5GHz bands: one for backhaul and the other for clients. Should you be able to drop ethernet at the various levels, take advantage of systems that can use a wired backhaul.

 

A more advanced wireless setup involves using multiple APs that you strategically place at the different levels to obtain coverage. Some run on centrally-controlled software that will allow for seamless roaming just like mesh. However, they’re not as straightforward as mesh systems, although some can run in mesh mode as well.

 

I would avoid units advertised as wireless extenders or range boosters. This is an old and inefficient wireless technology that has been superseded by what has been mentioned before. Unless you only need coverage in a small dead zone for low-bandwidth devices, I would ignore extenders and boosters.

[Unkindness]

On 3/3/2024 at 12:53 AM, Falcon1986 said:

Are there any internal concrete walls? Do the floors have any concrete as well or all wood?

 

WiFi broadcasts from omnidirectional antennae do well in the horizontal plane, but not so well in the vertical plane.

 

Additionally, signal attenuation occurs rapidly as WiFi passes through walls and floors, the degree to which is determined by the material in those walls or floors.

 

The problem with mesh in houses with a lot of concrete/brick walls is that it’s relying on WiFi for node-to-node communication in addition to node-to-client communication. If the wireless connection with the primary unit is slow, then everything downstream will be slow.

 

Some have gotten around this by running ethernet as backhaul between the primary unit and nodes to eliminate attenuation at this level.

 

In the true sense, being an all-wireless solution, mesh was designed for the typical modern American home: mostly wooden/plaster internal walls and floors. If your home is like this, the best mesh setup would be a tri-band system which has two 5GHz bands: one for backhaul and the other for clients. Should you be able to drop ethernet at the various levels, take advantage of systems that can use a wired backhaul.

 

A more advanced wireless setup involves using multiple APs that you strategically place at the different levels to obtain coverage. Some run on centrally-controlled software that will allow for seamless roaming just like mesh. However, they’re not as straightforward as mesh systems, although some can run in mesh mode as well.

 

I would avoid units advertised as wireless extenders or range boosters. This is an old and inefficient wireless technology that has been superseded by what has been mentioned before. Unless you only need coverage in a small dead zone for low-bandwidth devices, I would ignore extenders and boosters.

House has a few concrete walls internally but all the floors are timber as far as I know and the top floor is the only dead spot. All the central heating and wiring run through the floors so had a feeling all the copper and whatnot might be impeding the signal.

I'll be honest, I'm not mad about running cables from floor to floor because I wouldn't like to have cables or junction pipe up the walls hence why I was thinking of mesh.

The signal is perfect until you're in the room on the top floor and even at that, phones and whatnot still have passable/useable wireless signal, its mainly things like chromecast which I'm guessing, has a worse WiFi set up than most other wireless things.

This may sound stupid but the roof windows in my kitchen and a clean line of sight to the third floor, would running an access point from out there and another at the window of the top floor give me a better signal or is it just the verticality is the issue?

[Falcon1986]

6 hours ago, Unkindness said:

This may sound stupid but the roof windows in my kitchen and a clean line of sight to the third floor, would running an access point from out there and another at the window of the top floor give me a better signal or is it just the verticality is the issue?

Unless you use directional antennae. And if I'm interpreting the construction correctly, a lot of that signal will be wasted outside.

 

6 hours ago, Unkindness said:

I'll be honest, I'm not mad about running cables from floor to floor because I wouldn't like to have cables or junction pipe up the walls hence why I was thinking of mesh.

The ideal solution would be to run ethernet from the ISP's gateway to the top floor and attach an AP. It will provide the most stable and consistent signal to your wireless clients because you have a wired uplink and you're removing any signal attenuation caused by the floors.

 

Running ethernet might be more labour-intensive, but the results are better in the long term. If you absolutely can't run ethernet, then you can try mesh and see how it performs. Can't guarantee anything since every house is constructed differently.

[Unkindness]

On 3/4/2024 at 10:42 AM, Falcon1986 said:

Unless you use directional antennae. And if I'm interpreting the construction correctly, a lot of that signal will be wasted outside.

So in this situation, a regular router (with antenna pointed to the third floor) with a mesh satellite (at the window) could give me a solution, am I reading that right?

My house is in an L-shape, single story kitchen out back and 3 stories out front, probably should have given that info!

On 3/4/2024 at 10:42 AM, Falcon1986 said:

The ideal solution would be to run ethernet from the ISP's gateway to the top floor and attach an AP. It will provide the most stable and consistent signal to your wireless clients because you have a wired uplink and you're removing any signal attenuation caused by the floors.

 

Running ethernet might be more labour-intensive, but the results are better in the long term. If you absolutely can't run ethernet, then you can try mesh and see how it performs. Can't guarantee anything since every house is constructed differently.

It's not really the work that bothers me, its more convincing the boss I need to ruin her vision of the house we just spent a fortune remodelling by running cable and conduit up through 2 floors!

[Falcon1986]

2 hours ago, Unkindness said:

So in this situation, a regular router (with antenna pointed to the third floor) with a mesh satellite (at the window) could give me a solution, am I reading that right?

Mesh systems use omnidirectional antennae. And in order for mesh to work properly, you have to use compatible units (usually the same brand/model unless if you're running Asus' AiMesh).

 

What I'm saying is that getting mesh to reliably link vertically will be a challenge. It would be better that you stagger mesh point locations around the house so that the software "figures out" the best path to establish mesh links.

 

3 hours ago, Unkindness said:

It's not really the work that bothers me, its more convincing the boss I need to ruin her vision of the house we just spent a fortune remodelling by running cable and conduit up through 2 floors!

Hear you!

 

Here would be my argument: Would you rather see multiple "alien spaceships" around the house with cables coming out of them, or a neatly-mounted AP where wires are almost completely hidden?

 

You don't need new conduit if you already have conduit for low-voltage cables or coax. Ethernet can run in the same conduit if there is space. Actually, you don't need conduit if you can get into the walls and make routes through the studs.

[Unkindness]

On 3/5/2024 at 7:01 PM, Falcon1986 said:

Mesh systems use omnidirectional antennae. And in order for mesh to work properly, you have to use compatible units (usually the same brand/model unless if you're running Asus' AiMesh).

 

What I'm saying is that getting mesh to reliably link vertically will be a challenge. It would be better that you stagger mesh point locations around the house so that the software "figures out" the best path to establish mesh links.

 

Hear you!

 

Here would be my argument: Would you rather see multiple "alien spaceships" around the house with cables coming out of them, or a neatly-mounted AP where wires are almost completely hidden?

 

You don't need new conduit if you already have conduit for low-voltage cables or coax. Ethernet can run in the same conduit if there is space. Actually, you don't need conduit if you can get into the walls and make routes through the studs.

Cheers man! You've explained a lot and left me with a lot to think about!