Update or replace gaming PC

[RichardStones]

Budget (including currency): 1000 - 2200 EUR

Country: Czech Republic

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: MTG Arena, LoL/TFT, Youtube/general browsing, machine learning/programming/PyCharm, the occasional AAA game (I'd like to try Baldurs Gate 3)

Other details (existing parts lists, whether any peripherals are needed, what you're upgrading from, when you're going to buy, what resolution and refresh rate you want to play at, etc): 

Hi everyone!
My setup is approaching the 8 year mark, and I think it's time for a update or complete overhaul.
The current system is this:

GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070
CPU: Core(TM) i5-3550 @ 3.30GHz   3.70 GHz
CPU Cooler: NOCTUA CPU Cooler - NH-D14
Motherboard: GA-Z77-D3H
PSU: Seasonic 850W SS-850AM
SSD 256 GB + WD Caviar 2TB WD20EARX SATA III, 64MB, 3.5in
RAM: Kingston DDR3 16GB (4x4GB) 1600MHz HyperX KHX1600C9D3K4/16GX
Case: CoolerMaster RC-912P-KKN1 Miditower Case HAF 912 Plus

The most convenient option for buying parts for me is https://www.alza.cz/EN/?setlang=en-GB or www.amazon.de
On this site, they have tailored PC gaming rigs "made by experts", which seem like a easy and convenient way to upgrade. As an example, I had my eye on these two setups:
1. https://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-battlebox-raptor-i7-rtx4070ti-d7742012.htm

2. https://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-gamebox-i5-rtx4060ti-without-os-d7762554.htm

A cheaper, and more expensive option. There are many other builds they are offering in similar price ranges.
My question is, are these builds good, are there some major downfalls with them, should I change something, or is it a good deal to go for it?
Or with my budget and preferences, does it make sense to assemble something piece by piece, if there are items I can reuse from my old rig?


Thanks in advance!
Cheers

[Why_Me]

11 minutes ago, RichardStones said:

Budget (including currency): 1000 - 2200 EUR

Country: Czech Republic

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: MTG Arena, LoL/TFT, Youtube/general browsing, machine learning/programming/PyCharm, the occasional AAA game (I'd like to try Baldurs Gate 3)

Other details (existing parts lists, whether any peripherals are needed, what you're upgrading from, when you're going to buy, what resolution and refresh rate you want to play at, etc): 

Hi everyone!
My setup is approaching the 8 year mark, and I think it's time for a update or complete overhaul.
The current system is this:

GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070
CPU: Core(TM) i5-3550 @ 3.30GHz   3.70 GHz
CPU Cooler: NOCTUA CPU Cooler - NH-D14
Motherboard: GA-Z77-D3H
PSU: Seasonic 850W SS-850AM
SSD 256 GB + WD Caviar 2TB WD20EARX SATA III, 64MB, 3.5in
RAM: Kingston DDR3 16GB (4x4GB) 1600MHz HyperX KHX1600C9D3K4/16GX
Case: CoolerMaster RC-912P-KKN1 Miditower Case HAF 912 Plus

The most convenient option for buying parts for me is https://www.alza.cz/EN/?setlang=en-GB or www.amazon.de
On this site, they have tailored PC gaming rigs "made by experts", which seem like a easy and convenient way to upgrade. As an example, I had my eye on these two setups:
1. https://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-battlebox-raptor-i7-rtx4070ti-d7742012.htm

2. https://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-gamebox-i5-rtx4060ti-without-os-d7762554.htm

A cheaper, and more expensive option. There are many other builds they are offering in similar price ranges.
My question is, are these builds good, are there some major downfalls with them, should I change something, or is it a good deal to go for it?
Or with my budget and preferences, does it make sense to assemble something piece by piece, if there are items I can reuse from my old rig?


Thanks in advance!
Cheers

What resolution do you game at?

[RichardStones]

17 minutes ago, Why_Me said:

What resolution do you game at?

Hi!
I'm using this monitor: https://www.alza.cz/EN/34-dell-s3422dwg-d6622171.htm
So it's 3440x1440
Occasionally I use windowed mode to make the resolution 27". e.g. for Starcraft II

[Why_Me]

5 minutes ago, RichardStones said:

Hi!
I'm using this monitor: https://www.alza.cz/EN/34-dell-s3422dwg-d6622171.htm

Occasionally I use windowed mode to make the resolution 27". e.g. for Starcraft II

https://www.czc.cz/   <--- is it ok to use this site to post you a build?

[DeerDK]

Hmm, Id say you could make do with a new CPU/RAM/Mobo (hey macarina!), GPU and a new 1-2TB SSD.

Dunno anything about the case but I'd assume its fine. Unless you want something more modern?

Noctua cooler and Seasonic PSU sounds solid unless you are experiencing them acting up.

 

Whether you wanna have the hassle about upgrading yourself is a personal choice, but IMO go for the componet upgrade over getting a whole new system.

[JonS77]

Nothing about that PC is good for that monitor unless you only play very old games. You might want to look into building a new one entirely.

[RichardStones]

7 minutes ago, Why_Me said:

https://www.czc.cz/   <--- is it ok to use this site to post you a build?

Sure, please do!

 

3 minutes ago, DeerDK said:

Hmm, Id say you could make do with a new CPU/RAM/Mobo (hey macarina!), GPU and a new 1-2TB SSD.

Dunno anything about the case but I'd assume its fine. Unless you want something more modern?

Noctua cooler and Seasonic PSU sounds solid unless you are experiencing them acting up.

 

Whether you wanna have the hassle about upgrading yourself is a personal choice, but IMO go for the componet upgrade over getting a whole new system.

If I'll be replacing CPU, RAM, Mobo, GPU, SSD, that would be 80-90% of the price of a whole new system, no? I don't know, but I assume the PSU and cooler don't carry much of the price. So If I'll be replacing all these components, isn't it worth to refresh the rest as well?
I know you already said it's better to do the component upgrade instead, but maybe just to confirm

[RichardStones]

1 minute ago, Jon-Slow said:

Nothing about that PC is good for that monitor unless you only play very old games. You might want to look into building a new one entirely.

Do any of the pre-built configurations I linked seem good enough.

1. https://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-battlebox-raptor-i7-rtx4070ti-d7742012.htm

2. https://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-gamebox-i5-rtx4060ti-without-os-d7762554.htm

 

[DeerDK]

1 minute ago, RichardStones said:

Sure, please do!

 

If I'll be replacing CPU, RAM, Mobo, GPU, SSD, that would be 80-90% of the price of a whole new system, no? I don't know, but I assume the PSU and cooler don't carry much of the price. So If I'll be replacing all these components, isn't it worth to refresh the rest as well?
I know you already said it's better to do the component upgrade instead, but maybe just to confirm

Its a personal choice

I like fiddeling and have just voluntarily bitten my lower lip to blood in frustration by rebuilding my pc in my original mITX case I bought in 2015. (got a new GPU, and then after much back and forth realized that i needed a smaller PSU as well)

You are right that they are the primary cost components, but if on a budget, Cooler, PSU and Case could still mean a better GPU or CPU depending on how strictly limited your budget is.

Also, CPU+mobo tends to come in nice bundle deals if one shops around a bit. Finally there is the environmental aspect in not buying new components when the existing are working fine, but given the degree of your upgrade it's not a major point.

[Why_Me]

This store will build a PC for you to your specifications.  

 

https://www.czc.cz/pc-konfigurator

 

This leaves you room in your budget for a RX 7900 XT or a RTX 4070 Ti. 

 

https://www.czc.cz/adata-xpg-core-reactor-850w/278171/produkt

ADATA XPG CORE REACTOR 850W 80+ Modular ATX Power Supply CZK2 490

 

https://www.czc.cz/gigabyte-b760-gaming-x-intel-b760/368321/produkt

GIGABYTE B760 GAMING X CZK3,989  

 

https://www.czc.cz/intel-core-i5-12400f/335812/produkt

Intel Core i5-12400F CZK3,900    

 

https://www.czc.cz/endorfy-fera-5/362188/produkt  

Endorphy Fera 5 CPU Cooler CZK699

 

https://www.czc.cz/g-skill-ripjaws-s5-32gb-2x16gb-ddr5-6000-cl30-cerna/357520/produkt  

G.Skill Ripjaws S5 DDR5 6000 32GB (2x16GB) CL30 Kč2 799    

 

https://www.czc.cz/samsung-ssd-970-evo-plus-m-2-2tb/253494/produkt  

Samsung 970 EVO PLUS 2TB M.2 SSD CZK2,499

[PDifolco]

16 minutes ago, RichardStones said:

Do any of the pre-built configurations I linked seem good enough.

1. https://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-battlebox-raptor-i7-rtx4070ti-d7742012.htm

2. https://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-gamebox-i5-rtx4060ti-without-os-d7762554.htm

 

 

Regarding the prebuilts the first is nice (i7/4070Ti) but over 2000EUR, and you could save a bit with the same parts but keeping your case and PSU if you upgarde it yourself

The second is meh, 4060Ti is dogsh#t, a 7700XT/7800XT will make more sense but they're still unavailable in Europe

[JonS77]

28 minutes ago, RichardStones said:

Do any of the pre-built configurations I linked seem good enough.

1. https://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-battlebox-raptor-i7-rtx4070ti-d7742012.htm

2. https://www.alza.cz/EN/alza-gamebox-i5-rtx4060ti-without-os-d7762554.htm

 

I can never recommend a prebuilt, but if you have to pick then the one with the 4070ti is the way to go specially with that giant screen you have. I would probably build my own with a 4080

[Why_Me]

12 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

 

Regarding the prebuilts the first is nice (i7/4070Ti) but over 2000EUR, and you could save a bit with the same parts but keeping your case and PSU if you upgarde it yourself

The second is meh, 4060Ti is dogsh#t, a 7700XT/7800XT will make more sense but they're still unavailable in Europe

The Czechs are on it.

https://www.czc.cz/graficke-karty/produkty?graficky-cip=radeon-rx-7800-xt

[DeerDK]

49 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

...

a 7700XT/7800XT will make more sense but they're still unavailable in Europe

This European begs to differ
In Denmark, at least, they have become available, although not every model is readily at hand yet.

https://www.proshop.dk/Grafikkort/Sapphire-Radeon-RX-7800-XT-NITRO-16GB-GDDR6-RAM-Grafikkort/3192291

[RichardStones]

58 minutes ago, Why_Me said:

This store will build a PC for you to your specifications.  

 

https://www.czc.cz/pc-konfigurator

 

This leaves you room in your budget for a RX 7900 XT or a RTX 4070 Ti. 

 

https://www.czc.cz/adata-xpg-core-reactor-850w/278171/produkt

ADATA XPG CORE REACTOR 850W 80+ Modular ATX Power Supply CZK2 490

 

https://www.czc.cz/gigabyte-b760-gaming-x-intel-b760/368321/produkt

GIGABYTE B760 GAMING X CZK3,989  

 

https://www.czc.cz/intel-core-i5-12400f/335812/produkt

Intel Core i5-12400F CZK3,900    

 

https://www.czc.cz/endorfy-fera-5/362188/produkt  

Endorphy Fera 5 CPU Cooler CZK699

 

https://www.czc.cz/g-skill-ripjaws-s5-32gb-2x16gb-ddr5-6000-cl30-cerna/357520/produkt  

G.Skill Ripjaws S5 DDR5 6000 32GB (2x16GB) CL30 Kč2 799    

 

https://www.czc.cz/samsung-ssd-970-evo-plus-m-2-2tb/253494/produkt  

Samsung 970 EVO PLUS 2TB M.2 SSD CZK2,499

Thanks for the build suggestion, I will have more time later to check it out thoroughly. Seems you prefer czc over alza, any particular reason why?
Edit: Maybe the first question I have is, is it worth to go for i5 when all the other components are more up-to-date? Isn't i5 considered "bad" by todays standards?
 

[RichardStones]

59 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

 

Regarding the prebuilts the first is nice (i7/4070Ti) but over 2000EUR, and you could save a bit with the same parts but keeping your case and PSU if you upgarde it yourself

The second is meh, 4060Ti is dogsh#t, a 7700XT/7800XT will make more sense but they're still unavailable in Europe

As I understand the consensus is that 4070/4080 ~= 7700XT/7800XT

Assuming they are equal for gaming standards, I would still have a preference for NVidia due to CUDA for running code and ML.

[DeerDK]

7 minutes ago, RichardStones said:

As I understand the consensus is that 4070/4080 ~= 7700XT/7800XT

Assuming they are equal for gaming standards, I would still have a preference for NVidia due to CUDA for running code and ML.

From what ive seen in first reviews its more 7800xt sitting above 4070 but below 4070ti depending on the titles, and the 7700xt a bit below the 4070, but generally better than the 4060ti. And both are priced better. So somewhat equal in performance, but price to performance tips in AMD's favor. But it also depends on your usecase and if RT is a big thing for you

[Why_Me]

7 hours ago, RichardStones said:

Thanks for the build suggestion, I will have more time later to check it out thoroughly. Seems you prefer czc over alza, any particular reason why?
Edit: Maybe the first question I have is, is it worth to go for i5 when all the other components are more up-to-date? Isn't i5 considered "bad" by todays standards?
 

A i7 would be preferable but with that said something such as the i5 13600K / KF will suffice just fine.

[igormp]

15 hours ago, RichardStones said:

As I understand the consensus is that 4070/4080 ~= 7700XT/7800XT

Assuming they are equal for gaming standards, I would still have a preference for NVidia due to CUDA for running code and ML.

Since your games are somewhat lightweight, you could go for a 4060ti instead. It's cheaper and has 16gb of vram, which will trounce both the 4070 and 4070ti when it comes to ML.

[RichardStones]

23 hours ago, Why_Me said:

This store will build a PC for you to your specifications.  

 

https://www.czc.cz/pc-konfigurator

 

This leaves you room in your budget for a RX 7900 XT or a RTX 4070 Ti. 

 

https://www.czc.cz/adata-xpg-core-reactor-850w/278171/produkt

ADATA XPG CORE REACTOR 850W 80+ Modular ATX Power Supply CZK2 490

 

https://www.czc.cz/gigabyte-b760-gaming-x-intel-b760/368321/produkt

GIGABYTE B760 GAMING X CZK3,989  

 

https://www.czc.cz/intel-core-i5-12400f/335812/produkt

Intel Core i5-12400F CZK3,900    

 

https://www.czc.cz/endorfy-fera-5/362188/produkt  

Endorphy Fera 5 CPU Cooler CZK699

 

https://www.czc.cz/g-skill-ripjaws-s5-32gb-2x16gb-ddr5-6000-cl30-cerna/357520/produkt  

G.Skill Ripjaws S5 DDR5 6000 32GB (2x16GB) CL30 Kč2 799    

 

https://www.czc.cz/samsung-ssd-970-evo-plus-m-2-2tb/253494/produkt  

Samsung 970 EVO PLUS 2TB M.2 SSD CZK2,499

Hey, once again thanks for the build suggestion, I had time to go over it, and wanted to ask some follow ups.
1. PSU: The PSU is also a 850W like the one I have. Some commenters suggested that I could keep the one I have. Would this be a significant upgrade, or could I skip this change?
2. Overall/CPU: The price comes up to ~ 17k czk, while the GPU alone (7900 or 4070Ti) would be ~24k. I heard a long time ago that the GPU shouldn't exceed the cost of all the other components. In the sense that, if you don't sufficiently upgrade the remaining system components, you will bottle-neck the GPU. Does this still hold true? If I'm getting such a powerful GPU, does it make more sense to get a better Mobo/CPU?
3. CPU: To follow up on #2, are there compatibility requirements one should keep in mind. I assume Ryzen CPU works better with AMD cards, and Intel maybe works better with Nvidia?
If you don't mind, could you give a Mobo/CPU combo for 7900 & Ti. Assuming I'd want to upgrade to at least i7 level.
4. RAM: Is DDR5 "okay" now? I remember a year or two ago, that people were reluctant to get DDR5 and went with DDR4 despite it being a older spec.
5. GPU: Maybe some general advice on what card manufacturer to buy. Looking at Alza and CZC there are many manufacturers, and many different price points for seemingly same cards.

Thanks for all the help, it's greatly appreciated!

[RichardStones]

6 hours ago, igormp said:

Since your games are somewhat lightweight, you could go for a 4060ti instead. It's cheaper and has 16gb of vram, which will trounce both the 4070 and 4070ti when it comes to ML.

Hi, thanks for the comment!
There seems to be many different opinions on the 4060Ti (and the 40 series cards in general). I tried researching a bit on my own, but it can become a little overwhelming.
Would it be safe to say, that for my case, any of the recommended cards in this post (AMD & NVidia) would more than suffice for my use cases?

Also, does the 16gb of VRAM in 4060Ti really make that much of a difference compared to the 4070 and 4070Ti? It's a little unintuitive to me. If it's outperforming it in ML/Cuda stuff, shouldn't it be better in games as well?

[igormp]

3 hours ago, RichardStones said:

There seems to be many different opinions on the 4060Ti

For games it doesn't make much sense, but for ML it provides a great bang for the buck.

3 hours ago, RichardStones said:

any of the recommended cards in this post (AMD & NVidia) would more than suffice for my use cases?

AMD is a no go for ML, so I would avoid them. For nvidia, it really depends on the models you want to run and what games. If the games are limited to the ones you mentioned in your first post, even a mid-range GPU from the last gen should suffice.

3 hours ago, RichardStones said:

Also, does the 16gb of VRAM in 4060Ti really make that much of a difference compared to the 4070 and 4070Ti?

For ML? Yeah, a lot. You can easily increase your batch sizes and speed up your training for smaller models, and for larger ones you either do have enough vRAM or you're SOL getting them to run.

3 hours ago, RichardStones said:

If it's outperforming it in ML/Cuda stuff, shouldn't it be better in games as well?

Games don't really use that much vram as ML does. A faster GPU will train models faster and also run games faster, but if it doesn't have enough vram you can just lower some settings on a game to make it work, but you pretty much won't be able to train a model.

 

Given how current models are really heavy, going for more vram is always better. A 4060ti 16gb will be able to run models that a 3080,3080ti,4070 and 4070ti are not able ot run at all. In the same vein, a 3060 used to be better than a 3080 due to its extra 2gb of vram.