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[hurtstotalktoyou]

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[Godlygamer23]

21 minutes ago, hurtstotalktoyou said:

1.  Having over a thousand tiny pins on a CPU is just asking for trouble.  Even something like socket 370 or 478 back in the day was dicey, but I seem to recall that at least then the pins were a little more rugged and resistant to bending.  I guess now they've "solved" this problem by passing the buck to motherboard manufacturers with LGA interfaces.  I guess that's a whole other headache I'll have to experience for my next build.

 

2.  CPU cooling is out of control.  I've always used stock coolers, and the 5700X should have come with one.  If in order to stay within operating limits, it needs a foot-tall beast that doesn't fit in a normal sized case, then it should have some kind of warning that says so.  And if it doesn't, then IMO they should throw in a cheap stock cooler so the end user doesn't have to waste time and money trying to figure out what he needs.

 

3.  Thermal paste is too messy, to an insane degree.  The stock coolers I've used in the past have always had a bit of paste or a pad pre-applied.  It was simple and easy, and to require instead a sticky nightmare is completely unacceptable.  And aren't thermal pads available anyway?  If something absolutely has to be applied by the end user, it seems to me like a pad would be much safer instead of the sticky mess of paste that was included with the Peerless Assassin.

1.) What solution do you propose? In order to have the performance and throughput that we have, that number of pins is likely required. Some of them are redundant, but that's limited to ground pins usually. Not sure how many are actually labeled "Not Used", but can't imagine very many. Having an LGA interface limits the chance of destroying the CPU from bent pins because that end is more likely to be damaged, versus the socket. Especially because the socket usually has a cover installed onto the locking mechanism that automatically pops out once the CPU is installed.

 

2.) Pretty sure the packaging itself makes it clear. You probably got a small box. They're selling it as a retail package - the small packaging is what you see in the store, clearly indicating that a cooler is not included. Plus, depending on where you bought it from, they probably tell you somewhere on the page itself since you probably bought it online.

 

3.) Thermal paste can be messy versus pads, but paste typically performs better, and it might also be cheaper.

 

EDIT FOR NUMBER 2:

I take back what I said. It's in a pretty sizeable box. What was all included with the CPU if there's no cooler? Just a manual and some filler material?

Edited September 1, 2023 by Godlygamer23

[WeTuLo707]

You are griping about the inherent features of AMD chips. Why not go the Intel side of things? We don't have the same sort of problems as AMD chips.

 

COME TO THE DARK SIDE....

[hurtstotalktoyou]

  

3 minutes ago, WeTuLo707 said:

You are griping about the inherent features of AMD chips. Why not go the Intel side of things? We don't have the same sort of problems as AMD chips.

 

COME TO THE DARK SIDE....

 

I intend to go Intel next time, yes.  Originally it was just because Intel has better performance-per-buck nowadays, so it seems.  But also I'm pretty unhappy with this AMD experience.

[hurtstotalktoyou]

2 minutes ago, 8tg said:

Everything you described is issues that have been present for the last 20+ years and as well, are user error.

 

”modern pc building” didn’t cause you to drop a cpu and bend pins

Yeah I know that, thanks for the encouragement : /

[WeTuLo707]

2 minutes ago, hurtstotalktoyou said:

  

 

I intend to go Intel next time, yes.  Originally it was just because Intel has better performance-per-buck nowadays, so it seems.  But also I'm pretty unhappy with this AMD experience.

I never got into the AMD CPUs. Always been an Intel fanboy. Honestly sorry to hear that you had such a problem like that.

 

Personally, I do not know why they do the pins that way. They seem so much less user friendly than similar Intel models. Might be just a "different from Intel" kind of thing. Hope it works out for you getting everything reworked/replaced.

 

Take Care,

WeTuLo707

[Godlygamer23]

Just now, WeTuLo707 said:

I never got into the AMD CPUs. Always been an Intel fanboy. Honestly sorry to hear that you had such a problem like that.

 

Personally, I do not know why they do the pins that way. They seem so much less user friendly than similar Intel models. Might be just a "different from Intel" kind of thing. Hope it works out for you getting everything reworked/replaced.

 

Take Care,

WeTuLo707

It appears AMD recognized it since they've switched to LGA for AM5, and I'm guessing for future sockets as well. The socket is really only an issue though when you're removing the cooler...The CPU can become stuck to the cooler after years of having them mounted to each other, and taking the cooler off can result in pulling the CPU out of its socket. Rotating the cooler first helps to break up the paste, and helps to slowly introduce air - the vacuum that can be created will keep the CPU stuck to the cooler.

[WeTuLo707]

1 minute ago, Godlygamer23 said:

It appears AMD recognized it since they've switched to LGA for AM5, and I'm guessing for future sockets as well. The socket is really only an issue though when you're removing the cooler...The CPU can become stuck to the cooler after years of having them mounted to each other, and taking the cooler off can result in pulling the CPU out of its socket. Rotating the cooler first helps to break up the paste, and helps to slowly introduce air - the vacuum that can be created will keep the CPU stuck to the cooler.

I have seen videos where that issue was discussed and treated in the same manner as you just spoke of.

 

Glad to hear that they (AMD) are making that switchover. Honestly, CPUs are such fragile pieces anyway and should be handled with care. Accidents still will happen though, even if you do everything correctly.

[venomtail]

A lot of these seem like self inflicted frustrations. Bios updates, hot chips not coming with included coolers and pre-applied thermal paste feel like, logical...?

 

1 hour ago, hurtstotalktoyou said:

I'm also pretty irritated by the need for a BIOS update every time I install a CPU.  I don't recall that being required in the past

Weren't boards back then made 1:1 with their respective CPU generation? To my knowledge AMD promising generations of intercompatability is a great thing. If a mere update prevents the need to spend another $200+ for a new motherboard I thinkgs that's a win. Even Intel's listening and seems like next generation of CPU's might be the first ever with 3 generations of support on a Z690 motherboard. Usually was a new motherboard per CPU generation, lucky if a refresh, you'd get 2 generations.

 

1 hour ago, hurtstotalktoyou said:

And aren't thermal pads available anyway?  If something absolutely has to be applied by the end user,

Oh they exist, one google search away.

 

1 hour ago, hurtstotalktoyou said:

I've always used stock coolers, and the 5700X should have come with one.

1 hour ago, hurtstotalktoyou said:

IMO they should throw in a cheap stock cooler so the end user doesn't have to waste time and money trying to figure out what he needs

Firstly, that's the downside with the persuit of more performance, more stuff cramped into smaller space than last gen can only make more heat, laws of physics but that's happening in everything not just computers. From TV's needing fans, phones, cameras, cars and motorised furniture needing cooling pads.

And including fans that can cool the CPU, I don't agree. What if I already have a good enough cooler to cool the new CPU? I'm still gonna have a $50 premium added to my purchase. Second to the second point, feels like it would be extreme e-waste. They'll cut corners so the cooler can "legally" cool the CPU whist running with  earrape loudness 4000RPM fans. to reach 1C below thermal throttling.

 

1 hour ago, hurtstotalktoyou said:

causing bent pins.

Have you tried straightening them? Linus himself keeps dropping expensive CPU's, just bends them back and keeps using them. While they're fragile and I agree that's a factual structural weakness to it's usabilty at least it's somewhat savable.

 

16 minutes ago, hurtstotalktoyou said:

  

 

I intend to go Intel next time, yes.  Originally it was just because Intel has better performance-per-buck nowadays, so it seems.  But also I'm pretty unhappy with this AMD experience.

AMD has moved away from pins on CPU and onto the motherboard. Still doesn't remove the risk of bent pins but at least there's more chance for a motherboard to survive a fall breaking non essential parts than a CPU on its own.

[Jurrunio]

1. LGA is safer because a motherboard is more difficult to accidentally drop. Even if you do drop it, impacts to the front face usually hits the I/O or heatsinks first and not the socket.

 

2. Big air coolers are a thing for over a decade now, so does power hogs that necessitates them (if you don't want to go liquid that is). And being bugged by older people telling me "to do more research before asking questions, I don't have time" for so many years makes reading your rant funny lol.

 

3. Thermal pads have their own set of problems too, mainly their lesser performance. Maybe you got too fluidy paste, there are more sticky options that behave more like peanut butter and wouldn't actively spill everywhere as long as you don't apply too much.

 

For the BIOS update problem, that's partly because AM4 isn't very mature and still require compatibility updates every once in a while, partly because AM4's long lifespan. Working with new CPUs that didn't exist when they sold you the board has that side effect. Would you rather pay for a new board along with every new CPU instead?

[brob]

I wonder if you consulted any forums about your upcoming build? Did you use a tool like pcpartpicker to help with basic compatibility?

 

1. LGA, used by Intel for a decade or more and recently AMD, moves the pins to the motherboard socket. Of course socket pins come with their own dangers.

 

2. In the days when Intel shipped a stock cooler with every retail CPU builders literally threw out bins of them. If You want a stock cooler, buy a CPU that comes with one. All of the current desktop models have versions that come with a cooler.

 

3. See 2 above, stock coolers have a pre-applied pad.

 

4. In the past one had to buy a new motherboard with a new CPU.

 

I do sympathize with the tragic loss of a CPU. 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

6 hours ago, venomtail said:

A lot of these seem like self inflicted frustrations. Bios updates, hot chips not coming with included coolers and pre-applied thermal paste feel like, logical...?

 

Weren't boards back then made 1:1 with their respective CPU generation? To my knowledge AMD promising generations of intercompatability is a great thing. If a mere update prevents the need to spend another $200+ for a new motherboard I thinkgs that's a win. Even Intel's listening and seems like next generation of CPU's might be the first ever with 3 generations of support on a Z690 motherboard. Usually was a new motherboard per CPU generation, lucky if a refresh, you'd get 2 generations.

 

Oh they exist, one google search away.

 

Firstly, that's the downside with the persuit of more performance, more stuff cramped into smaller space than last gen can only make more heat, laws of physics but that's happening in everything not just computers. From TV's needing fans, phones, cameras, cars and motorised furniture needing cooling pads.

And including fans that can cool the CPU, I don't agree. What if I already have a good enough cooler to cool the new CPU? I'm still gonna have a $50 premium added to my purchase. Second to the second point, feels like it would be extreme e-waste. They'll cut corners so the cooler can "legally" cool the CPU whist running with  earrape loudness 4000RPM fans. to reach 1C below thermal throttling.

 

Have you tried straightening them? Linus himself keeps dropping expensive CPU's, just bends them back and keeps using them. While they're fragile and I agree that's a factual structural weakness to it's usabilty at least it's somewhat savable.

 

AMD has moved away from pins on CPU and onto the motherboard. Still doesn't remove the risk of bent pins but at least there's more chance for a motherboard to survive a fall breaking non essential parts than a CPU on its own.

Thanks man.  Yeah, I considered maybe trying to bend them back, but after this terrible experience I'm really reluctant to try anything else.  I feel like I'm in a place where my anger has died down, and I don't want it to flare up again.

Also, my eyesight isn't great and I have no experience working on something that tiny.  Perhaps more seriously, my computer is for work, not gaming, so I can't afford for something to go wrong with what I have in case I make another mistake.

But if I was younger and/or more patient, then yeah, you're right, I should definitely try to bend them back.