HDD on the brink?

[Gurky]

Hey all, 

 

Just hoping for a bit of a sense check here for my own head, I have a Seagate FireCuda 1 TB that's nearly 5 years old September and I recently started hearing "Noise" from my PC, the drive is only used as my "Large" drive I use to chuck games on usually lots of small ones or a few big ones, I took all my files off it a long time ago. It's got 11256 power on hours and 1683 Power on count. 

I've attached a DiskMark and just wondered what people think?

 

I can grab a Samsung 1TB 870 Evo for £31 if needs be. 
 

 

 

[OhioYJ]

I'll resist the temptation to say "it is a Seagate...". Seriously though, noises can come from all over. Are you sure it's a the hard drive. It could be a vibration, could be a fan, what kind of noise is it? Could be normal. What does the drive's SMART data look like? Either way, there should never be only one copy of important data.

[Gurky]

3 minutes ago, OhioYJ said:

I'll resist the temptation to say "it is a Seagate...". Seriously though, noises can come from all over. Are you sure it's a the hard drive. It could be a vibration, could be a fan, what kind of noise is it? Could be normal. What does the drive's SMART data look like? Either way, there should never be only one copy of important data.

Yeah, I was a young man when I got a Seagate! Just messing yeah I usually use Samsung or WD. 

I've had a feel around Pc and feels like my bay where I have the HDD, pump and AIO seems absolutely fine and GPU. 

Here is the SMART: Seems good to me, nothing major standing out. 

 

 

[Alex Atkin UK]

15 minutes ago, Gurky said:

Yeah, I was a young man when I got a Seagate! Just messing yeah I usually use Samsung or WD. 

I've had a feel around Pc and feels like my bay where I have the HDD, pump and AIO seems absolutely fine and GPU. 

Here is the SMART: Seems good to me, nothing major standing out. 

 

 

I wouldn't judge the SMART data on its own merit, use Seatools as it understands how they are using those fields.

 

Personally, I already replaced the spinning rust with an SSD as there's very little reason not to at this point.  HDDs are only used in my NAS for bulk storage.

[Vishera]

6 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

I wouldn't judge the SMART data on its own merit, use Seatools as it understands how they are using those fields.

I recommend GSmartControl for reading SMART data,

I often find that Crystal Disk Info doesn't display the correct values.

[Alex Atkin UK]

1 minute ago, Vishera said:

I recommend GSmartControl for reading SMART data,

I often find that Crystal Disk Info doesn't display the correct values.

Unfortunately a lot of SMART values differ on what they actually mean based on the vendor so you can only trust their own software to give a full picture.

[Vishera]

6 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Unfortunately a lot of SMART values differ on what they actually mean based on the vendor so you can only trust their own software to give a full picture.

GSmartControl is very good at displaying what these values mean,

I wasn't able to test it on SEAGATE drives though (I don't have any),

But it reports correct values for my TOSHIBA and WesternDigital drives + Additional useful data for troubleshooting.

[Gurky]

15 minutes ago, Vishera said:

I recommend GSmartControl for reading SMART data,

I often find that Crystal Disk Info doesn't display the correct values.

Maybe on to something! 

 

[Vishera]

6 hours ago, Gurky said:

Maybe on to something! 

Look at the 'Raw Read Error Rate' and 'Seek Error Rate' values, It's pretty bad.

Your drive has issues reading from the platter.

 

Your drive is on it's way out.

[Gurky]

10 minutes ago, Vishera said:

Look at the 'Raw Read Error Rate' and 'Seek Error Rate' values, It's pretty bad.

Your drive has issues reading from the platter.

 

Your drive is on it's way out.

Legend I will order an SSD now then and now "Bulky spare" will become  my good one! 

[Alex Atkin UK]

4 hours ago, Vishera said:

Look at the 'Raw Read Error Rate' and 'Seek Error Rate' values, It's pretty bad.

Your drive has issues reading from the platter.

 

Your drive is on it's way out.

You are looking at the RAW values, those are meaningless.

These two values are the ones that specifically I was referring to that look alarming as they are used by Seagate in some mysterious way, they are high on brand-new drives.

Generally though its if the VALUE gets as low as the THRESHOLD that implies a failure.  That itself can be confusing as some fields its if it gets a HIGH as the THRESHOLD (eg operating temperature).  You have to know which it is for a given entry to make any sense of the information.

This is where using the manufacturers own software comes in, you don't need to care as it knows what everything means.  Of course, SMART isn't foolproof either, a drive can be on its way out and appear fine.

 

My newest drive:

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   068   064   044    Pre-fail  Always       -       6957144
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   089   089   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       113
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   077   060   045    Pre-fail  Always       -       44779041
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   098   098   000    Old_age   Always       -       1860
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       114
 18 Head_Health             0x000b   100   100   050    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       4295032833
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   065   045   040    Old_age   Always       -       35 (Min/Max 29/38)
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       57
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   098   098   000    Old_age   Always       -       4364
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   035   055   000    Old_age   Always       -       35 (0 19 0 0 0)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   068   064   000    Old_age   Always       -       6957144
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Pressure_Limit          0x0023   100   100   001    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       1362h+39m+07.516s
241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       78047836316
242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       32417269913

 

[Vishera]

25 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

You are looking at the RAW values, those are meaningless.

????

34 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

My newest drive:

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   068   064   044    Pre-fail  Always       -       6957144
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   089   089   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       113
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   077   060   045    Pre-fail  Always       -       44779041
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   098   098   000    Old_age   Always       -       1860
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       114
 18 Head_Health             0x000b   100   100   050    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       4295032833
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   065   045   040    Old_age   Always       -       35 (Min/Max 29/38)
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       57
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   098   098   000    Old_age   Always       -       4364
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   035   055   000    Old_age   Always       -       35 (0 19 0 0 0)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   068   064   000    Old_age   Always       -       6957144
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Pressure_Limit          0x0023   100   100   001    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       1362h+39m+07.516s
241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       78047836316
242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       32417269913

Are non 0 'Raw Read Error Rate' and 'Seek Error Rate' values "normal" on SEAGATE drives?

Because these are supposed to be 0 on healthy TOSHIBA and Western Digital drives.

[kokosnh]

The S.M.A.R.T. table is OK. 
 

On 7/2/2023 at 1:32 PM, Vishera said:

Look at the 'Raw Read Error Rate' and 'Seek Error Rate' values, It's pretty bad.

Your drive has issues reading from the platter.

 

Your drive is on it's way out.

 

what do you mean? do you understand how to read these attributes on seagate HDD? They are fine, seek error rate normalized current is 78,that’s 1 error per almoust 100'000'000 seek, thanks way above average actual (you don't look on the raw value of this attribute at all).
The read error rate on seagate is always like that, you just discard it all together. It’s compound value, so you only look on first 4 hex digits from the left, for the errors. 
if it’s only last 8 hex that have value, you discard it all together, as it’s just count if read operation, like in here. 

[Alex Atkin UK]

15 hours ago, kokosnh said:

The S.M.A.R.T. table is OK.
 

what do you mean? do you understand how to read these attributes on seagate HDD? They are fine, seek error rate normalized current is 78,that’s 1 error per almoust 100'000'000 seek, thanks way above average actual (you don't look on the raw value of this attribute at all).
The read error rate on seagate is always like that, you just discard it all together.

I guess what I should have said is they are meaningless "without context".

[Ryker Robb]

On 7/2/2023 at 5:32 AM, Vishera said:

Look at the 'Raw Read Error Rate' and 'Seek Error Rate' values, It's pretty bad.

Your drive has issues reading from the platter.

 

Your drive is on it's way out.

This is because, on seagate drives, they also include the total read/seek operations in that number.

"Seagate disk drives represent the raw values of following Pre-fail SMART attributes as a 48 bit number.

1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate

7 Seek_Error_Rate

The most significant 16 bits are an error count, and the low 32 bits are a number of operations."

To get the actual seek and read error count, you need to plug the number into an appropriate calculator.

The smart info on this drive actually looks fine to me, although you can do a surface scan as well, i prefer victoria.

As for the noise your hearing, it could just be the apm(advanced power management) auto parking the heads. Your could try disabling apm using hdat2.

[Vishera]

19 minutes ago, Ryker Robb said:

This is because, on seagate drives, they also include the total read/seek operations in that number.

"Seagate disk drives represent the raw values of following Pre-fail SMART attributes as a 48 bit number.

1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate

7 Seek_Error_Rate

The most significant 16 bits are an error count, and the low 32 bits are a number of operations."

To get the actual seek and read error count, you need to plug the number into an appropriate calculator.

The smart info on this drive actually looks fine to me, although you can do a surface scan as well, i prefer victoria.

As for the noise your hearing, it could just be the apm(advanced power management) auto parking the heads. Your could try disabling apm using hdat2.

Yep, I was wrong.

Sorry about that.