5000€ Build for production, coding, 3D rendering, and ofcourse, gaming

[Mlady Swagalot]

Budget (including currency): 5000€

Country: Slovenia

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Coding, 3D Rendering, Encoding, Video-editing, VFX, Streaming, Gaming

Other details I have all the peripherals I need, I'm looking for getting a pc that would be able to last me with my needs for a few years, the goal is playing 1440p with at least 144Hz however, being an fps player, anything above 144fps is much appreciated. For productivity sake I require lots of RAM and a beefy gpu.

 

Another thing that is very important to me is a LOT of IO - usb c, usb a, etc. as well as a lot of pcie lanes because I own an elgato 4k60pro and the cam link pro which in addition to those two devices I would like to have another slot free.

 

Due to needing to operate with lots of NDI sources a 10gbit ethernet port would be very handy (either one that comes with a motherboard or by buying a pcie network card)

 

The purchase of parts is planned to be starting in about 1 week.

 

I would prefer that the build is air cooled, since my job sometimes requires me to move the pc and I would hate to have to deal with checking wether my fittings were still tight or god forbid a spill happens.

I do not care about the outside look however you can always go with a little swag.

 

Since Slovenia is in the EU, I can easily order from other EU countries.

In order to help here is a list of stores that are known amongst my pears to be reputable and have okay prices:

-  https://www.computeruniverse.net/en

- https://www.caseking.de/

https://www.mindfactory.de/

https://www.mlacom.si/

and ofcourse the .de and .it versions of amazon.

 

I would much appreciate your help in planing the build.

 

Thank you

 

(also bear in mind the purchase will be done via a company so it should come out a lil cheaper after the tax bonuses)

 

 

[Mlady Swagalot]

I will check the build out, and let you know, thanks

 

 

Also are you sure you can still buy founders edition cards? Aren't they only available at launch?

[Mlady Swagalot]

16 minutes ago, oofki said:

This board as 10gbe built in. 
 

https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/k8wfY9

Hi, would an aio perform better or worse than the cpu cooler you listed?

 

As in would the temps be more stable

[Mlady Swagalot]

2 minutes ago, oofki said:

If you’re lucky you can. It looked like they are in stock?  I don’t think there’s any reason not to get one, but a card by Asus or gigabyte or even MSI would serve you well too. 
 

what do you mean about the cooler?

Was talking with my friend and he insists on an AIO saying that in short term loads it takes longer for the temperature of the cpu to rise, but after further inspection I noticed that while for short loads aio is better, on longer loads air cooling allows for the cpu to lower it's temperature when it's a little less active so I think I'm going to stick with the Noctua. Plus easier repair/longevity.

 

Another small note, could I use 2 2TB 990 pros?

And an additional hard drive for long term storage, which would you recommend?

[Mlady Swagalot]

24 minutes ago, oofki said:

Yeah, there’s rarely a case to use an AIO. The D15 keeps up with all of them and it doesn’t breakdown after a few years because it’s just a chunk of metal. 
 

you can yeah. A 990 is so overkill in general. I run a 970 evo as my secondary, which is still overkill lol but a very good drive. 

Do you recommend any hard drives? (HDD) (for long term storage)

[QuantumSingularity]

1 hour ago, Mlady Swagalot said:

Was talking with my friend and he insists on an AIO saying that in short term loads it takes longer for the temperature of the cpu to rise, but after further inspection I noticed that while for short loads aio is better, on longer loads air cooling allows for the cpu to lower it's temperature when it's a little less active so I think I'm going to stick with the Noctua. Plus easier repair/longevity.

 

Another small note, could I use 2 2TB 990 pros?

And an additional hard drive for long term storage, which would you recommend?

No AIOs don't take longer for the CPU temp to rise - it's actually the other way around. Heat transfer between cold plate and water is much SLOWER than the transfer between cold plate and whatever gas there is in the heat pipes. It gets longer for the coolant in the AIOs to get to temperature, but CPUs always hit max temps as soon as you put a good workload on them. 

 

As for the build from oofki , here are the changes I would do:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X 4.5 GHz 16-Core Processor  (€597.90 @ Alza) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler  (€119.90 @ Amazon Deutschland) 
Motherboard: ASRock X670E Taichi Carrara EATX AM5 Motherboard  (€574.21 @ LK-Webservices) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR5-6000 CL40 Memory  (€222.97 @ Computeruniverse) 
Storage: Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  (€169.90 @ Amazon Deutschland) 
Video Card: Gigabyte AORUS XTREME WATERFORCE GeForce RTX 4090 24 GB Video Card  (€2155.46 @ notebooksbilliger.de) 
Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2 ATX Full Tower Case  (€173.89 @ Caseking) 
Power Supply: SeaSonic PRIME PX 1600 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (€356.24 @ Computeruniverse) 
Wired Network Adapter: TP-Link TX401 10 Gb/s Ethernet PCIe x4 Network Adapter  (€84.90 @ Computeruniverse) 
Total: €4455.37
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-06-23 22:51 CEST+0200

 

And let me explain why the changes:

 

First the CPU. The 7950X3D simply isn't worth the additional money since for it gain max performance, you need to disable half the cores to utilize the additional L3 cache to it max. It's very slightly faster than the 7950X-non-3D in gaming scenarios and in production workloads it's actually slower.

 

The motherboard - there are 2 options. Here i put in the one i would go for since it's referred to as "the best high-end motherboard" by all reviewers and its only downside is the lack of 10gig network, which i addressed with the network adapter on the bottom of the build. My other choice would be the Gigabyte X670E AORUS XTREME, which is usually referred to as "the best all rounder". It has built in 10 gig, but i still would go for the Carrara mobo.

 

Switched that memory from 4x16 to 2x32GB from the QVL for that mobo. Aside for the better performance, it also allows for another 64GB to be added lately if needed.

 

Now the GPU. The 4090 is the only nVidia GPU which has overengineered cooling, but still the founders edition is nowhere near the levels of the AIB cards. Went with the watercooled Gigabyte GPU, since that 360mm rad allows for really cool GPU under extremely long workloads. Render 16-18 hours ... absolutely no freaking problem - i'll chill right here at 57-60°C, mate, while being dead-silent.

 

The Case - it's just a good full tower case with a bunch of space to do whatever you want - PCIe raisers, second GPU, enormous coolers, custom loops... sky is the limit with it and for under €200 it's basically a steal. It also allow for a 2nd AIO up to 420mm to be added for the CPU and make the system completely silent. Something like the ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 420 would have no problem keeping the 7950X constantly cool, without even reaching whisper level of noise. But i left the D15 in. It doesn't matter what you throw in that case - with the right amount and orientation of fans, nothing will ever cook itself inside.

 

Now the PSU - i've seen 4090s drain 890W during transience for up to 9µs, which is enough to throw off any 1000W PSU. Having a good power reserve would allow for both better system stability and efficiency. And when it comes to PSUs, SeaSonic is the brand i would trust basically with anything. 

[Mlady Swagalot]

14 minutes ago, QuantumSingularity said:

No AIOs don't take longer for the CPU temp to rise - it's actually the other way around. Heat transfer between cold plate and water is much SLOWER than the transfer between cold plate and whatever gas there is in the heat pipes. It gets longer for the coolant in the AIOs to get to temperature, but CPUs always hit max temps as soon as you put a good workload on them. 

 

As for the build from oofki , here are the changes I would do:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X 4.5 GHz 16-Core Processor  (€597.90 @ Alza) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler  (€119.90 @ Amazon Deutschland) 
Motherboard: ASRock X670E Taichi Carrara EATX AM5 Motherboard  (€574.21 @ LK-Webservices) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR5-6000 CL40 Memory  (€222.97 @ Computeruniverse) 
Storage: Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  (€169.90 @ Amazon Deutschland) 
Video Card: Gigabyte AORUS XTREME WATERFORCE GeForce RTX 4090 24 GB Video Card  (€2155.46 @ notebooksbilliger.de) 
Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2 ATX Full Tower Case  (€173.89 @ Caseking) 
Power Supply: SeaSonic PRIME PX 1600 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (€356.24 @ Computeruniverse) 
Wired Network Adapter: TP-Link TX401 10 Gb/s Ethernet PCIe x4 Network Adapter  (€84.90 @ Computeruniverse) 
Total: €4455.37
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-06-23 22:51 CEST+0200

 

 

Why do you prefer these changes to the build? What do they add?

[QuantumSingularity]

5 minutes ago, Mlady Swagalot said:

Why do you prefer these changes to the build? What do they add?

I did in edit to the post: it was simply too long to write initially, that's why i edited it after i posted the system  

[QuantumSingularity]

33 minutes ago, oofki said:

I strongly disagree with some of these changes.
 

Asus is the best MB manufacturer hands down and you lose free 10gbe. 
 

I have a similar setup and my temps are fine with a D15 and in a case that runs about 10 degrees warmer than the one I sent. 
 

no need for a massive case. 
 

1600W is extremely overkill. A 850W can handle this system fine. I do it today. So 1,000 is way more than enough. 
 

founders edition IS just as good. Every tech reviewer says just get the founders edition for a reason. And that card is made like junk: 

 

 

lastly water cooling means potential leaks and more maintenance. No need for any of that when air cooling is just as good. 

Idk if you have been living under a rock lately, but Asus are the company you want to have to deal with the least in the last 6-12months. Build quality, customer supports, questionable RMA policies, bribing clients and media... It's not just the exploding AMD motherboards. It's problematic GPUs as well. Again - ASUS is the worst company on the market right now to the point where Jayz2Cents even dropped them from their channel.

 

As for the AIOs. I prefer air cooling for performance factor as well, but there is no way to fight the cooling capacity of an AIO or a custom loop when noise comes into play. Yes - air cooling is more reliable in the long run, but liquid cooling has its pros as well. Can't simply say, it doesn't work and that's it. Some people like to have completely silent systems under all conditions and air cooling can't win over liquid on that one.

 

As for the Waterforce - it's inevitable that at some point EVERY product will have a fail sample. Doesn't matter it it's liquid cooler 4090 from Gigabyte or MSI or aircooled 7900XTX from Sapphire. I've build 2 systems with the Waterforce GPUs and none of them has encountered neither of the problems described in that reddit. One of them actually does 16 hour long renders and the owner says he never saw the card go above 60°C on core and 68°C on VRAM. Also most, like 98% of the AIOs on the market have aluminum radiators, not copper ones. Copper is almost never used for radiators for a number of reasons. This only goes to show that the guy who posted that reddit, knows actually nothing about liquid cooling. As for the off-centered thermal pads - every single Asus GPU has that problem and the really sweat part is that if you fix it yourself, it voids your warranty and they don't fix it, until the GPU starts having problems. If i have to do long renders i would take a WaterForce GPU over any other aside from maybe the MSI Suprim X any day of the week.

 

As for the PSU - the 7950X non-3D is more power hungry CPU than the X3D. It doesn't have the delicate 3D V-Cache which is so sentitive to temperature, so it pulls hard ones a workload is given to it. And as i said - i have seen with my very own eyes a 4090 under load drawing 890W (EITH HUNDRED AND NINETY) for 9µs on its own. It's a powerful GPU and while 1600W is really a bit of an overkill, the difference between 1600W and a good 1300 is basically like €40 so what even is the point when you spend €5000. I know i'd rather spend €40 and have no issues than coming back to my rig in the morning and finding out that my 10-hour long render has stopped because of a sudden powerdraw which triggered the OCP protection. 

 

Rigs build for workloads are build a bit differently than simple gaming rigs. Reserve and slight initial overpay always pays off, than cheaping out to save less than 1% of the total budget.

[Mlady Swagalot]

Guys, you both have really compeling arguments, but it's currently 00:14 at my place so I'm going to head to bed. Shall we continue the conversation tomorrow?

[QuantumSingularity]

1 minute ago, oofki said:

Re: Asus:

Haven’t heard a thing about bios quality, I don’t think that’s real 

 

Customer support and RMA policies have nothing to do with quality. But gigabyte is far worse in this regard. 
 

Bribes also don’t contribute and MSI has been doing this for years. 
 

Every board mfg (as far as I know) had issues with voltages and the new 3D skus. 
 

Meanwhile I had to stop using ASROCK boards because they couldn’t even get something as simple as fan curves right. 

Well we can only extrapolate from our own experiences and let me tell you from what i consider not vast, but certainly rich experience. I don't wanna sound like a fanboy, but AsRock are one of the most reliable motherboard brands that's currently on the market, at least here in Europe (idk about the US), especially when we talk about their high-tier products. Yes, they started as the cheap alternative to the good brands, but they have SERIOUSLY stepped up their game and are now offering high and top tier products, which are worth their value. Their Steel Legend and Taichi series easily rival the AORUS ELITE and TOMAHAWK series from MSI and Gigabyte on both features AND quality.

I build on average about a system a week or so (gaming rigs, editing stations, office PCs). So far the only issues i've had, especially in the last year have been exclusively with Asus products (including my own monitor). On the motherboard scene, they have been dead to me for well over a decade, when they (again) had problems with their voltages. But somehow i still try to give them a chance when it comes to monitors and sometimes even GPUs... And every single time they take that chance and slap it back in my face. As Steve from GamersNexus put it - the problems are much deeper than simple QC faults. Their entire company is currently in deep policy issues, not only with quality of production, but also customer support, media relations, RMA processes and A LOT MORE. 

[Maloo]

 

33 minutes ago, Mlady Swagalot said:

Guys, you both have really compeling arguments, but it's currently 00:14 at my place so I'm going to head to bed. Shall we continue the conversation tomorrow?

I suggest disregarding any advice from oofki as they seem to have a bias attitude towards certain brands, which is not a reliable way to make decisions about spending your hard-earned money. Instead, I recommend conducting your own research. This forum contains a wealth of information that can assist you in your building endeavors best of luck.

[Mlady Swagalot]

17 hours ago, QuantumSingularity said:

Well we can only extrapolate from our own experiences and let me tell you from what i consider not vast, but certainly rich experience. I don't wanna sound like a fanboy, but AsRock are one of the most reliable motherboard brands that's currently on the market, at least here in Europe (idk about the US), especially when we talk about their high-tier products. Yes, they started as the cheap alternative to the good brands, but they have SERIOUSLY stepped up their game and are now offering high and top tier products, which are worth their value. Their Steel Legend and Taichi series easily rival the AORUS ELITE and TOMAHAWK series from MSI and Gigabyte on both features AND quality.

I build on average about a system a week or so (gaming rigs, editing stations, office PCs). So far the only issues i've had, especially in the last year have been exclusively with Asus products (including my own monitor). On the motherboard scene, they have been dead to me for well over a decade, when they (again) had problems with their voltages. But somehow i still try to give them a chance when it comes to monitors and sometimes even GPUs... And every single time they take that chance and slap it back in my face. As Steve from GamersNexus put it - the problems are much deeper than simple QC faults. Their entire company is currently in deep policy issues, not only with quality of production, but also customer support, media relations, RMA processes and A LOT MORE. 

THanks for taking the time, and writing out these long replies.

 

I only have  1 reservation left:

Are there increased points of failure with the watercooled gpu? As I initially mentioned, this pc would be often moved to different sites and would the shaking in transport possibly shake something lose? A fan failure isn't as catastrophic as an aio gpu failure, plus once it's out of warranty it's harder to repair I imagine.

 

 

Also what about thermal paste?

 

Edit:

Upon further inspection of the build I have a few more questions:

1.  Case doesn't come with fans. In this case, do I use the fans + radiator from the gpu and mount it in the front?

2. In the requirements I listed a requirement of more pcie ports, I may have been missunderstood and used wrong vocabulary. I own a cam link pro and a 4k60pro mk2, these are capture cards which both require pciex4 ports. So in addition to the 10GB Network adapter you included, I would need 1 pciex16 port for the GPU and 3 pciex4 ports for the capture cards and network adapter.

The motherboard you listed only has 2 PCIe 5.0 x16 ports. Am I missing something or is there no way of me then being able to have all the cards I listed at once?

 

The ProArt MB would at least have 10Gbit built in meaning I would only need 1 PCIex16 and 2 PCIex4

 

If I understand correctly, the cpu has 24 lanes, so a 16x, 4x, 4x setup is possible.

 

 

 

Second edit:

After some thinking done and more research, I think I'm gonna go with your build, except choose the ProArt MB since it opens up a PCIeX slot.

I will still buy a network expansion card, but it's going into a second computer so if push comes to shove I can put one of the capture cards in a second pc and send the source over NDI. I recognise that if I wanted both capture cards and 10Gbit, it would probably mean going Threadripper, however that comes in a completely different price bracket which I'm not trying to hit.

 

I also swapped the ram to a CL30 kit and updated the PSU to the new atx 3.0 version.

 

 

If you have any further thoughts, please do reply.

[QuantumSingularity]

With X670E chipset and 7950X you have 24x PCIe Gen 5 lanes, 12x PCIe Gen 4 and 8x PCIe gen 3 or a total of 44. This diagram is actually how they work on the Carrara:

 

Why they haven't included a 10 gig network is beyond me. But yeah, if you want more than 44 PCIe lanes, you'll need Threadripper. But even if you are really keen on the 10 gig ethernet included, get the Gigabyte X670E AORUS XTREME... That Asus mobo is really a tier below and it draft back even compared to the old X570 Aorus Extreme. 

 

As for the GPU - in order to have a point of failure, you have to seriously neglect and overheat the pump and the seals. On a GPU the plus is that the water block is MUCH more compact than the air cooler so there is absolutely no GPU sagging. If you talk about CPU AIO, well,, again the water block is extremely tiny and light compared to any big air cooler. The radiators are mounted to the case with screws so you have to drop the case in order to set them lose. AIOs are much more stable and dependable for transport than big air coolers. 

 

As for the fans - i intentionally didn't chose any, because the possibilities and combinations basically endless: 

 

There is so much room and air there for everything to breath, that whichever way you chose to install them and whichever brand you go to, it won't be a problem. How i would do it is this:

The GPU with the radiator and the 3x120 fans mounted on top as exhaust. Then i'll get a pack of 5x140mm Arctic or Noctua fans and stick 3 in the front as intake and one in the rear as exhaust and one on the bottom as intake again. Positive pressure really helps with dust buildup. 

[Mlady Swagalot]

Why do you think the asus one is lower grade?

 

I mean price wise the aorus is way more but still. (it's almost double the price)

[Mlady Swagalot]

On 6/24/2023 at 8:00 PM, QuantumSingularity said:

With X670E chipset and 7950X you have 24x PCIe Gen 5 lanes, 12x PCIe Gen 4 and 8x PCIe gen 3 or a total of 44. This diagram is actually how they work on the Carrara:

 

Why they haven't included a 10 gig network is beyond me. But yeah, if you want more than 44 PCIe lanes, you'll need Threadripper. But even if you are really keen on the 10 gig ethernet included, get the Gigabyte X670E AORUS XTREME... That Asus mobo is really a tier below and it draft back even compared to the old X570 Aorus Extreme. 

 

As for the GPU - in order to have a point of failure, you have to seriously neglect and overheat the pump and the seals. On a GPU the plus is that the water block is MUCH more compact than the air cooler so there is absolutely no GPU sagging. If you talk about CPU AIO, well,, again the water block is extremely tiny and light compared to any big air cooler. The radiators are mounted to the case with screws so you have to drop the case in order to set them lose. AIOs are much more stable and dependable for transport than big air coolers. 

 

As for the fans - i intentionally didn't chose any, because the possibilities and combinations basically endless: 

 

There is so much room and air there for everything to breath, that whichever way you chose to install them and whichever brand you go to, it won't be a problem. How i would do it is this:

The GPU with the radiator and the 3x120 fans mounted on top as exhaust. Then i'll get a pack of 5x140mm Arctic or Noctua fans and stick 3 in the front as intake and one in the rear as exhaust and one on the bottom as intake again. Positive pressure really helps with dust buildup. 

 

 

Sorry to still be bothering you, but I explored the options some more.

 

I found the MSI MEG X670E ACE https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MEG-X670E-ACE/Overview which is in the same price bracket and decided to compare the specs:

 

 

To me it looks like the MEG is superior in IO and PCIEX slots but only falls behind in the M.2 SSD support, however if I populate the aorus one with multiple ssds, if I am reading correctly, that would downgrade my main pciex16 slot to a pciex8 in terms of bandwidth, which means in terms of SSDs they are the same (the meg comes with an extender which adds two more gen 5 ssd slots but reduces the main pciex slot to x8).

 

So in the end the MEG offers me better IO, better PCIEX slots and functionally equal SSD support.

 

Would you agree?

 

 

Edit: now that I think about it, just having one gen5 ssd slot is enough atm since I don't even have one and will only be getting one when they become cheaper, and if the need arises I can just slot in the extender.

[QuantumSingularity]

That MSI mobo looks extremely good. Most tech reviewers seem to like it. It's basically a trimmed down version of the Godlike. It's also a nice option.

[Mlady Swagalot]

35 minutes ago, QuantumSingularity said:

That MSI mobo looks extremely good. Most tech reviewers seem to like it. It's basically a trimmed down version of the Godlike. It's also a nice option.

Were the fans I chose correct?

[Mlady Swagalot]

@QuantumSingularity

Finished pc:

The NHD15 was a bitch to install, specifically the fans with it's clips so one of them is only fully using 1 clip. Other than that everything is solid.

Thanks for your advice.

[QuantumSingularity]

Wow... Looks really nice, but.... where is the PSU ? And yeah - the NH-D15 is a good cooler, but a hell to deal with when installing.

[Mlady Swagalot]

15 hours ago, QuantumSingularity said:

Wow... Looks really nice, but.... where is the PSU ? And yeah - the NH-D15 is a good cooler, but a hell to deal with when installing.

The case you recommended: enthoo pro 2, has the PSU slot in the back where all the cable management is.

 

I will be honest, the case looks a little empty due to its size xD

 

[QuantumSingularity]

Damn ... i totally forgot about the PSU cover xD. But don't you have the mid plates included in the package?

[Mlady Swagalot]

On 8/10/2023 at 5:32 PM, QuantumSingularity said:

Damn ... i totally forgot about the PSU cover xD. But don't you have the mid plates included in the package?

Are you sure we are thinking of the same case?

 

Phanteks enthoo pro 2. Not the server edition.