13700K OC Settings Help

[SightUp]

I cannot figure this OC out to save my life. I need someone to go over my settings and see what I might be doing wrong. There has to be a setting or something I am messing up. Please see attached!

My setup is a z790 ASUS Apex + 13700K + G.Skill 7800.

 

I have really put this CPU through the ringer attempting to get it stable. 

I started out with my RAM overclock. I want stock timings with 8000 mhz.

For the CPU I wanted 5.5 on all P cores,  43 on all E cores, and uncore at 48.

 

I started out with my RAM OC. I first started testing using Y-Cruncher in Benchmate. If that passed, I moved on to then to TM5. I ran 1usmus_v3 and Extreme1@anta777. If that passed, Imoved on to 2 hours of VST, double of what was recommended to me. Finally, I finished with a 24 hour Karhu test. That should be sufficient stress testing for a RAM OC, right?

 

Then I moved on to the CPU.

Here is where my understanding is kind of iffy. I didn't want my idle voltage to be over 1.4 volts. Is this a wrong train of thought when on a 13700K?

 

Here is some of what I tried. For this test I was able to pass OCCT Small with no issues. It's when I started OCCT Large I started to encounter errors.

LLC    Manual CPU voltage   P/F 

5         1.375                             F

5         1.4                                 F

5         1.425                             F

5         1.35                               F

6         1.35                               F

6         1.355                             F

6         1.36                               F

6         1.375                             F

 

I am one of those who wants their PC stable regardless of what I might throw at it. I do a little bit of everything and I never know when I might need to render something for 24 hours, game 24 hours straight, or have gone down the rabbit hole and open 69 billion tabs about yachts I will never be able to afford.

 

I am going back to the drawing board. I am afriad that my settings will look exactly like they did before in the BIOS though which is why I am including the attachment.

I am starting all over with my RAM OC and instead of putting in large numbers in the RAM voltages just to get it over with, I am going to test little by little. 

 

Hopefully there is someone more experienced than me at overclocking who wouldn't mind pointing me in the right direction and working on this with me. I want to regularly update this thread until everything is stable!

 

help_setting.txt

[RONOTHAN##]

4 minutes ago, SightUp said:

I didn't want my idle voltage to be over 1.4 volts. Is this a wrong train of thought when on a 13700K?

 

Idle for that chip is fine at 1.45V, I wouldn't really worry about it. 

 

5 minutes ago, SightUp said:

For the CPU I wanted 5.5 on all P cores,  43 on all E cores, and uncore at 48.

The P and E core settings are pretty conservative, but that uncore setting is very aggressive. Uncore requires a ton of voltage to get stable, and 4.8GHz is about the limit for the couple of 13th gen chips I've used. Odds are for the voltage settings you're trying to run 4.8GHz is just way too much. 

 

13 minutes ago, SightUp said:

LLC    Manual CPU voltage   P/F 

5         1.375                             F

5         1.4                                 F

5         1.425                             F

5         1.35                               F

6         1.35                               F

6         1.355                             F

6         1.36                               F

6         1.375                             F

From what I remember from using a Z690 APEX (should be the same VRM), you want to use LLC 4 unless you're going for a per core OC (then something like level 2 is probably best) or going for frequency validations in which case level 6 or 7 is probably best. I'd set something like 1.43V level 4, drop the ring down to 4.6-4.7 and it should be stable. 

[SightUp]

I am having trouble duplicating my earlier RAM OC now. It keeps failing y-cruncher every other run. I think I might need to target just the RAM and stress test that don't hammer the memory controller. I think that is hurting me right now.

 

To my knowledge, other have set 7800 mhz kits to 8000 mhz and upped the voltages to 1.5 vdd / 1.5 vddq and were able to call it good. No other tweaking required. 

 

I was once told, and it's now making sense, you first OC the RAM, followed by the CPU and then you circle back and up the MC voltage until stable in all test. Does this sound right?

 

I just passed @1usmus_v3. Going to try Extreme1@anta777 next. Hopefully that doesn't hit the MC.

[SightUp]

So it passed TM5 without problems with the looser 8000 mhz timings. I want to keep the tighter 7800 mhz timings but raise the mhz to 8000. Starting over... again...

 

I noticed that there are a few voltage settings that are set to Auto in the BIOS that HWiNFO64 is reporting that their voltages are boucing around a bit.

 

VPP is bouncing between 1.8 and 1.815

SA is stay constant at 1.312 even though in the BIOS it is at 1.29.

IMC is 1.403 to 1.365 underload.

 

Could any of these be influencing my consistant failure in TM5?

[SightUp]

So a little bit of progress.

CL36-48-48-48-125-2N @ 8000 mhz passed the 1st test with everything on auto except VDD and VDDQ which both required 1.510v. Doing the second one now, the Extreme1@anta777. After Googling it, it takes a several hours. Hopefully this doesn't crash at like 2.5 hours in only 30 minutes from being complete.

[SightUp]

Failed with an Error on 2. Google leads me to believe it's probably voltage. Upping the RAM voltages to 1.52 on both and MCV to 1.41250.

 

Edit: After booting into Windows and starting the test, I noticed the voltage remained exactly the same for the MCV. Boosting the MCV to 1.4250.

[SightUp]

I am failing hard here. I keep pumping in voltage to the RAM and nothing is helping.

I failed at 1.52/1.52 on the VDD and the VDDQ when testing on the Exetreme1@Anta777. I also failed with at that test while the voltage was 1.52/1.52 with the MCv set to 1.25 and 1.5 in the BIOS. 

I cannot help but to wonder if it's because everything on the CPU is left on Auto. 

 

I am going to try a different approach here. I dropped the MCv back to Auto. Next, I am dropping the P cores to 40, E cores to 30 and Uncore to 35. In addition, I dropped am on LLC 4 which ASUS recommends in the BIOS. I also dropped the two RAM voltages to 1.5 and will probably test with 1.49 just so I can stay out of the yellow.

 

Y Cruncher passed and running TM5 @1usmus_v3 now.

 

 

 

 

[SightUp]

Lots of setting changes. I am on my 2nd to last RAM test before I tackle the CPU again and try your seggestions @RONOTHAN##.

 

I gave up on my dream of having stock timings with 8000 mhz on my 7800 kit. I think I was really close, but I think it was too tough to dial it in. I really have my doubts about how stable everyone elses RAM OC really is that is at 8000+ mhz.

 

Instead of running 36-46-46-46-125-2N @ 8000 mhz, I am running 38-48-48-48-128-2N @ 8000 mhz with 1.49/1.49 for voltages and everything else is was on Auto.

 

I was able to pass Benchmate's quick Y-Cruncher stress test. I followed that up with @1usmus_v3 and Extreme1@anta777.

 

Now it was time to try VST. I know VST is a hammer for the memory controller. I passed 9 interations on Auto before it erroring. 

 

I ran it again, this time at 1.4250v on the MCv. Failed 61 minutes into the VST stress test.

Again, this time at 1.43750 on the MCv. Failed in less than 10 minutes into the VST stress test.

Presently running it again at 1.45v on the MCv. And as I was writing this it failed 3 minutes into the test.

Now about to try 1.5v on the MCv. I have been told people run that on 1.58 to 1.6 on air without an issue.

Wish me luck!

[RONOTHAN##]

34 minutes ago, SightUp said:

I have been told people run that on 1.58 to 1.6 on air without an issue.

That voltage also happens to sweet spot. On my Unify-X for instance under no circumstance am I better off running it at anything other than 1.65V, any more it fails to train and any less it errors VST within 10 minutes at speeds above 7000MT/s. That said, there are boards where 1.4V is optimal or even less for that voltage is best, and from what I've seen with the Z790 Apex (I don't have one and don't want to spend the $900 to get one, so I just have to go by with what I've read from people who do) that sweet spots on IMC voltage at somewhere around 1.35V and 1.45V. More != better on any of the IMC voltages, and judging by the fact that it seems your getting progressively less stable the more your raising it, I'm gonna say you're probably giving it too much. 

[SightUp]

OK! Some good news, finally!

I just finished VST testing.

 

 

 

What are your thoughts? Stable? Should I do a 24 hour Karhu test, too? Should I run a different RAM test entirely? Or is it finally time to move on to my CPU OC?

[RONOTHAN##]

1 hour ago, SightUp said:

OK! Some good news, finally!

I just finished VST testing.

 

 

 

What are your thoughts? Stable? Should I do a 24 hour Karhu test, too? Should I run a different RAM test entirely? Or is it finally time to move on to my CPU OC?

I would check retrain stability, since 13th gen does have an issue where you can run settings, they work for 3 hours, you retrain the memory and it fails in 3 minutes. 

[SightUp]

21 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

I would check retrain stability, since 13th gen does have an issue where you can run settings, they work for 3 hours, you retrain the memory and it fails in 3 minutes. 

What do I have to do exactly? Just run the test all over? Or one in particular?

 

I was going to run Absolut while I am at work tomorrow. Is "Memory Test config file v0.02" the latest and greatest?

[RONOTHAN##]

1 minute ago, SightUp said:

What do I have to do exactly? Just run the test all over? Or one in particular?

 

You save a profile, clear CMOS, boot to Windows, go back to BIOS and re-enable said profile. Get back into Windows and run VST, if you have retrain instability it should fail within 10 minutes. I'd do that 3 or 4 times. 

 

4 minutes ago, SightUp said:

I was going to run Absolut while I am at work tomorrow? Is "Memory Test config file v0.02" the latest and greatest?

I don't really run Absolut so can't comment on that. I tend to do 1usmus_V3 personally as that's what I've had catch the most errors, at least on my kit. If you want to run Absolut though that's probably fine. 

[SightUp]

5 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

You save a profile, clear CMOS, boot to Windows, go back to BIOS and re-enable said profile. Get back into Windows and run VST, if you have retrain instability it should fail within 10 minutes. I'd do that 3 or 4 times.

 

And that's because it's 13th gen? Crazy. I did see a whole page dedicated to memory training in the BIOS. Should I disable that page?

[RONOTHAN##]

Just now, SightUp said:

 

And that's because it's 13th gen? Crazy. I did see a whole page dedicated to memory training in the BIOS. Should I disable that page?

It's because it's Gear 2, it's been an issue with it since it was introduced back in 11th gen and present in Gear 2 on DDR4 as well. 

 

The page on memory training that I'm aware of is of all the different memory training algorithms present on the board, these can sometimes help getting some things to boot or for one of them improve performance slightly, but for the most part unless you're really bored you should just leave these on auto and not touch them, the board automatically handles them. 

[SightUp]

I was planning on letting my OC test with Absolut today while I was at work. I guess I messed something up because it only did three cycles. I am going to try tomorrow.

[SightUp]

Welp! I am totally lost now. Just for fun I did a little more tweaking and matched a friends setup. He has the 13900KS though. I was able to pass this just fine. I don't understand this behavior at all.