First PC build

[JEFFgoldwing]

Budget (including currency): 1100 AUD (preferably 1000AUD or below) 

Country: Australia

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Blender 3D (cycles), solidworks, AutoCad, lightroom, photoshop, simracing (AC and iRacing), maybe some esports titles

Other details (existing parts lists, whether any peripherals are needed, what you're upgrading from, when you're going to buy, what resolution and refresh rate you want to play at, etc): I have the monitor, keybaord, headphones, speakers and mouse all setup with the sim racing gear. I need wifi, can't get ethernet cable running into my room. This is also my first PC that I will be building, so have no existing parts or anything. And as for 3d rendering, I plan to render relatively low poly renders so 16gb of ram should be enough for my usage.

 

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/fMb2zf

 

[Bombastinator]

The build I like for these kind of questions get disliked a lot because it uses some limited cheapass parts that are difficult to upgrade from.  Is this a system you want to upgrade from later? Or will you ave money in a large enough chunk that you can simply sell the machine and buy a whole new one?

[Queen Chrysalis]

Looks great.  For a first timer this is one of the most value optimized parts lists I've seen in a while.  For intro to blender you can really use anything, but if you wanna game this is a pretty well paired system, too.  All of your renders should be fine on here though, and there aren't really any areas I would boost or trim. 

[JEFFgoldwing]

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

The build I like for these kind of questions get disliked a lot because it uses some limited cheapass parts that are difficult to upgrade from.  Is this a system you want to upgrade from later? Or will you ave money in a large enough chunk that you can simply sell the machine and buy a whole new one?

these parts needs to be cheap for the budget and I will have to upgrade in the future, but that really isn't my main worry at the moment.I will most likely be building a brand new one later on after this one has had its run.

[GeorgeMKane]

2 hours ago, JEFFgoldwing said:

Budget (including currency): 1100 AUD (preferably 1000AUD or below) 

Country: Australia

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Blender 3D (cycles), solidworks, AutoCad, lightroom, photoshop, simracing (AC and iRacing), maybe some esports titles

Other details (existing parts lists, whether any peripherals are needed, what you're upgrading from, when you're going to buy, what resolution and refresh rate you want to play at, etc): I have the monitor, keybaord, headphones, speakers and mouse all setup with the sim racing gear. I need wifi, can't get ethernet cable running into my room. This is also my first PC that I will be building, so have no existing parts or anything. And as for 3d rendering, I plan to render relatively low poly renders so 16gb of ram should be enough for my usage.

 

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/fMb2zf

 

Went with intel on this one. Solid cpu for cheaper, and I would recommend a 2TB HDD with this one.

 

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/3PBTjZ

Edited August 29, 2022 by GeorgeMKane

[Queen Chrysalis]

7 minutes ago, GeorgeMKane said:

Went with intel on this one. Solid cpu for cheaper, and I would recommend a 2TB HDD with this one.

 

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/3PBTjZ

If you wanna go intel you can see that the 12100 outdoes the 11400 in most 3D modeling render times.  The 11400 is better in cinebench because raw core-count power rules that, but blender still seems to prefer faster cores pretty handily, especially on lower-end projects.  The 12100f also games better.

[Bombastinator]

3 hours ago, JEFFgoldwing said:

these parts needs to be cheap for the budget and I will have to upgrade in the future, but that really isn't my main worry at the moment.I will most likely be building a brand new one later on after this one has had its run.

Then if you go with a5700g and a really low end b450 motherboard ther may be enough opening left in the budget for more video card and a slow storage drive. The 5700g/low end b450 works because even though the 5700g will only do pcie3 x8 your system doesn’t have things in it that can use more than that anyway. As is the system you built is capable of taking a bigger cpu and video card later.  If you go 5600g/low end b450 it isn’t though.  Also you get another 2/4 if you go 5700g.  Saves something over $100 generally though.  Maybe $200.  The thing would run at basically the same speed, just be cheaper at the cost of being more difficult to upgrade.  Basically the whole motherboard/cpu/memory would have to go.  It’s sort of a maxed out cheapass machine vs an entry level mid grade machine.  If you want to upgrade later the 5600x/b550 is better.  If you don’t though, you can get get the same speed for less money other ways.  You just can’t efficiently make it go faster than it does at the outset.  What you have works though.  The way to upgrade from it would be to sell the whole box as a working 1080p gaming machine.  If you go 5700g you save about $30 on the cpu and whatever the difference is in motherboard price.   Last I looked a b450 ds3h could be had for $68 A Series motherboards could also be looked into.  I don’t know much about em though.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Bombastinator

[Bombastinator]

18 minutes ago, Queen Chrysalis said:

If you wanna go intel you can see that the 12100 outdoes the 11400 in most 3D modeling render times.  The 11400 is better in cinebench because raw core-count power rules that, but blender still seems to prefer faster cores pretty handily, especially on lower-end projects.  The 12100f also games better.

It does in most current games anyway.  The 12100 is 4/8 which is enough for anything designed to run on a PS4.  Later stuff could have a problem though.  There will be issues with forbidden West for example.

[JEFFgoldwing]

27 minutes ago, GeorgeMKane said:

Went with intel on this one. Solid cpu for cheaper, and I would recommend a 2TB HDD with this one.

 

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/3PBTjZ

Hello, thanks for the part lists, as for the storage I already have an external HHD so not too worried about that, im just not too sure about the 11th gen i5 as a replacement for the ryzen 5, but i will look into it thank you

 

[Queen Chrysalis]

13 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

It does in most current games anyway.  The 12100 is 4/8 which is enough for anything designed to run on a PS4.  Later stuff could have a problem though.  There will be issues with forbidden West for example.

Maybe, but the underclocked zen 2 cores on the ps5/sex are a lot slower than alder lake cores, so the whole 'every things is gonna need 8c16t' debacle seems underinformed, as when you compare the 8c8t bullldozer chip in the ps4 to a comparable 4c4t i5 4570 from 2013, even games that could utilize all 8 threads still rans faster on the 4570 because those cores were faster, and the tasks scheduled to be able to be run on other cores could still run on the main cores, and still more efficiently so.  Task scheduling for bigger architectures is also more difficult, so devs will only do it if they can;t fit everything into tighter schedules.  Even then, the total power of undervolted 8c16t zen 2 (more like a stock 1700) is the same as a 6c12t alder lake, there isn;t really a difference and/or the 6c12t with a better architecture might still be faster.  It will be interesting to see, but my money is on 4c8t being fine through this console generation. 

 

You can also consider that the consoles being fitted with roughly a 6600xt/5700xt hybrid is gonna limit a lot of dev output, and the consoles having the 1700/3700x is really just a product of AMD giving them first dibs on production runs, and there being no point in lazering the chips down to 6c12t like they do with off the shelf 3600s.

[JEFFgoldwing]

2 hours ago, Queen Chrysalis said:

If you wanna go intel you can see that the 12100 outdoes the 11400 in most 3D modeling render times.  The 11400 is better in cinebench because raw core-count power rules that, but blender still seems to prefer faster cores pretty handily, especially on lower-end projects.  The 12100f also games better.

would you recommend going with that intel setup or just to stick with the current ryzen one, sorry if this is  avague question to ask, i'm not too familiar with intel's side of things

[Somerandomtechyboi]

1 hour ago, Queen Chrysalis said:

ps5/sex

[JEFFgoldwing]

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Then if you go with a5700g and a really low end b450 motherboard ther may be enough opening left in the budget for more video card and a slow storage drive. The 5700g/low end b450 works because even though the 5700g will only do pcie3 x8 your system doesn’t have things in it that can use more than that anyway. As is the system you built is capable of taking a bigger cpu and video card later.  If you go 5600g/low end b450 it isn’t though.  Also you get another 2/4 if you go 5700g.  Saves something over $100 generally though.  Maybe $200.  The thing would run at basically the same speed, just be cheaper at the cost of being more difficult to upgrade.  Basically the whole motherboard/cpu/memory would have to go.  What you have works though.  The way to upgrade from it would be to sell the whole box as a working 1080p gaming machine.  If you go 5700g you save about $30 on the cpu and whatever the difference is in motherboard price.   Last I looked a b450 ds3h could be had for $68 A Series motherboards could also be looked into.  I don’t know much about em though.

I was thinking of going with a b450 mobo, but currently there are no budget b450 motherboards dedicated wifi that is availible here, I could go second hand but not sure if it is a smart option for a first build. As for future builds I think I might run this into the ground and keep it for 5 or more years and then swap to a brand new build. I haven't really thought of a future plan for it now

[Queen Chrysalis]

10 minutes ago, JEFFgoldwing said:

I was thinking of going with a b450 mobo, but currently there are no budget b450 motherboards dedicated wifi that is availible here, I could go second hand but not sure if it is a smart option for a first build. As for future builds I think I might run this into the ground and keep it for 5 or more years and then swap to a brand new build. I haven't really thought of a future plan for it now

I've bought second-hand boards (and all other parts) and it's not an issue IMO. If everything works when you buy it, it's good to go.  If one thing is broken stay away, but a fully functioning board can be treated as if it were like new.  TBH, have you checked out local classifieds for a used full system?  The market is great right now as tons of people just upgraded.  You might be able to find something for half of your budget that would be close to this in most performance metrics.

 

14 minutes ago, JEFFgoldwing said:

would you recommend going with that intel setup or just to stick with the current ryzen one, sorry if this is  avague question to ask, i'm not too familiar with intel's side of things

I'd still just get the 5600.  It'll do better in blender as the cores are just about as fast, and having two extra will put it over.  AMD motherboards are also a lot cheaper, so the discount for the 12100 isn't as big as it looks.  But either would be preferable to the 11400, and the 12400 is gonna cost more because intel motherboards cost more.

[Queen Chrysalis]

I edited this last post as well, so it may have changed.

[JEFFgoldwing]

12 minutes ago, Queen Chrysalis said:

I've bought second-hand boards (and all other parts) and it's not an issue IMO. If everything works when you buy it, it's good to go.  If one thing is broken stay away, but a fully functioning board can be treated as if it were like new.  TBH, have you checked out local classifieds for a used full system?  The market is great right now as tons of people just upgraded.  You might be able to find something for half of your budget that would be close to this in most performance metrics.

That is good to know, my main impression of buying second hand products have not been good so glad to hear that is not the case. I have looked around facebook marketplace for second hand builds but most have under performing gpus with hiked up prices. And prebuilts have been a little pricey and doesn't really meat the same performance metric. But I will keep looking around for more builds. thanks

Edited August 29, 2022 by JEFFgoldwing

[Queen Chrysalis]

9 minutes ago, JEFFgoldwing said:

I have looked around facebook marketplace for second hand builds but most have under performing gpus with hiked up prices

Yeah, 90% of people are still holding out for buyers that don't.  If you look hard you might find something reasonable, but I suspect in a month or so a lot of these sellers are gonna get more realistic with their prices.  If you find anything with a DDR4 platform (i5 or i7 6xxx or newer, i3 8xxx or newer, or any ryzen 5 or 7) for $250 or less, adding a GPU to that might be a good value.

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, Queen Chrysalis said:

Maybe, but the underclocked zen 2 cores on the ps5/sex are a lot slower than alder lake cores, so the whole 'every things is gonna need 8c16t' debacle seems underinformed, as when you compare the 8c8t bullldozer chip in the ps4 to a comparable 4c4t i5 4570 from 2013, even games that could utilize all 8 threads still rans faster on the 4570 because those cores were faster, and the tasks scheduled to be able to be run on other cores could still run on the main cores, and still more efficiently so.  Task scheduling for bigger architectures is also more difficult, so devs will only do it if they can;t fit everything into tighter schedules.  Even then, the total power of undervolted 8c16t zen 2 (more like a stock 1700) is the same as a 6c12t alder lake, there isn;t really a difference and/or the 6c12t with a better architecture might still be faster.  It will be interesting to see, but my money is on 4c8t being fine through this console generation. 

 

You can also consider that the consoles being fitted with roughly a 6600xt/5700xt hybrid is gonna limit a lot of dev output, and the consoles having the 1700/3700x is really just a product of AMD giving them first dibs on production runs, and there being no point in lazering the chips down to 6c12t like they do with off the shelf 3600s.

As I understand it they’re not under clocked zen2 cores they’re overclocked zen+ cores.  Or rather cores that are zen+ with some zen2 aspects.  The ps5 was designed before zen2 was. Zen ++ or something maybe. Faster than zen+, slower than regular zen2.  A very narrow point. There’s 8 of them though, and unlike the earlier PSes 2 of them aren’t blocked off for the OS.  It depends I guess on what future devs wind up doing.  They could write something that continues to run on 4/8 or 6/12, or they could make something that actually must have more than that to function.  It’s sort of luck of the draw.  Nothing is guaranteed. 

[Bombastinator]

4 minutes ago, Queen Chrysalis said:

Yeah, 90% of people are still holding out for buyers that don't.  If you look hard you might find something reasonable, but I suspect in a month or so a lot of these sellers are gonna get more realistic with their prices.  If you find anything with a DDR4 platform (i5 or i7 6xxx or newer, i3 8xxx or newer, or any ryzen 5 or 7) for $250 or less, adding a GPU to that might be a good value.

Apparently the miners are starting to dump high end cards.  There was a video from techYesCity about finding a 3080 for under $300.

[Queen Chrysalis]

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

As I understand it they’re not under clocked zen2 cores they’re overclocked zen+ cores.  Or rather cores that are zen+ with some zen2 aspects.  The ps5 was designed before zen2 was. Zen ++ or something maybe. Faster than zen+, slower than regular zen2.  A very narrow point. There’s 8 of them though, and unlike the earlier PSes 2 of them aren’t blocked off for the OS.  It depends I guess on what future devs wind up doing.  They could write something that continues to run on 4/8 or 6/12, or they could make something that actually must have more than that to function.  It’s sort of luck of the draw.  Nothing is guaranteed. 

I've literally never encountered a piece of software that needed a core-count to function, and I seriously doubt any game dev would lock out gamers who bought new PCs in 2022 any sooner than 2027.  Blops 3 will sprawl out to 10 threads if it can (with threads 4-9 using like 30% tops) but it still runs the same on a single-threaded quad core.  There's just no way any games are gonna be burning more than 12 cores this gen at any higher than 50% load, especially if those 12 threads are alder lake and the 16 it was designed to sprawl out to are zen ''''+'''' (an overclocked 1600 and 2600 are literally identical in every benchmark).

[Bombastinator]

43 minutes ago, JEFFgoldwing said:

I was thinking of going with a b450 mobo, but currently there are no budget b450 motherboards dedicated wifi that is availible here, I could go second hand but not sure if it is a smart option for a first build. As for future builds I think I might run this into the ground and keep it for 5 or more years and then swap to a brand new build. I haven't really thought of a future plan for it now

Dedicated wifi come in two flavors: motherboard and e-key.  The key ones just mean it’s got a populated e key slot.  If the board has an e-key slot that isn’t populated you just buy an ekey wifi chip and populate it.  Boom.  Wifi.  Other options are pcie wifi cards and a simple USB dongle. Prices are all about the same ~$20-30 (or more if you want more than basic connectivity) 

[JEFFgoldwing]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Dedicated wifi come in two flavors: motherboard and e-key.  The key ones just mean it’s got a populated e key slot.  If the board has an e-key slot that isn’t populated you just buy an ekey wifi chip and populate it.  Boom.  Wifi.  Other options are pcie wifi cards and a simple USB dongle. Prices are all about the same ~$20-30 (or more if you want more than basic connectivity) 

oh ok thanks, I completely forgot that was an option. And alos what would you say about using a 5600G instead of the 5700G instead?

[Queen Chrysalis]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

Dedicated wifi come in two flavors: motherboard and e-key.  The key ones just mean it’s got a populated e key slot.  If the board has an e-key slot that isn’t populated you just buy an ekey wifi chip and populate it.  Boom.  Wifi.  Other options are pcie wifi cards and a simple USB dongle. Prices are all about the same ~$20-30 (or more if you want more than basic connectivity) 

Yeah, I did this on my bf's PC, and got the intel wifi 6 BT/wifi combo chip for like $25, whereas a PCIe card of similar spec would have been like $50.  Do this if you can.  A lot boards will call it 'm.2 wifi'.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Queen Chrysalis said:

Yeah, I did this on my bf's PC, and got the intel wifi 6 BT/wifi combo chip for like $25, whereas a PCIe card of similar spec would have been like $50.  Do this if you can.  A lot boards will call it 'm.2 wifi'.

True, but if some dev is crunching at 3am and has to code his game to run on PS5 he may spec more than 12 threads at which point you’re into overhead land and things slow down.  May not happen.  Hard to know though.

[Queen Chrysalis]

8 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I have.  There is also function and function well.  4/4 machines are no longer considered gaming worthy because they run so slowly.  The problem was the ps3 stuff was 6/6 (the ps3 itself was 8/8 but two cores were locked off for the OS) towards the very end of the ps3 generation games started coming out that 4/4 machines had a lot of trouble running.

Sure, but the point I'm getting at is that the total computational power of a 6/12 that ran a multicore workload as fast as a slower architecture 8/16 should be equivalent, right?  The 12400f does better on cinebench than the 1700x.