Computer crashing under high load

[Brundage]

I just finished my new pc build. RTX 3070 rev2.0, Ryzen 5 5600x, EVGA 750W, and 9 Corsair AF120s. Under 100% load(loading games) the CPU reaches up to 95c with the stock AMD cooler. I've read that it's okay for that temperature under short periods but I plan on upgrading the cooler anyway once I get more money. At the highest of loads the screen turns black and it's like the computer restarted but the components inside the computer never turn off. I'm unsure if the issue is the CPU temperatures automatically restarting the computer or that the PSU is not enough for the computer. I unplugged 3 fans and also turned down the GPU settings to avoid using power. Anyone know if I should unplug more fans/optimize power usage or buy a new CPU cooler(borrow more money from my parents)? I'm definitely okay buying a new CPU cooler because I planned on it anyway. I would really like to not have to get a new PSU because I already had to buy a new one after I realized that the original ATX PSU wouldn't fit inside my O11 D MINI.

 

Other Details - On idle the CPU sits around 35-50c, the CPU has an intake fan right above it and an exhaust on the back of the case, I've reinstalled the cooler twice(once with dot pattern and another with penta-dot pattern.) I think I installed it pretty well, I tightened the cooler to a medium tightness after I had a damage scare with highest possible tightness.

 

THANK YOU FOR ALL HELP!

 

 

[MLConian]

Do you see any of these issues in the syslog somewhere? That could point us in the direction of the failing component here.

[An0maly_76]

IMO stock AMD Wraith is garbage for a heavily loaded Zen3, period. There's a reason the 5800X / 5900X / 5950X do not come with them. You need a better cooler. 5600X is safe to 95C under full load, but it should not be getting even close to that just loading a game, that is not really full load.

I've spawned thirty cars to chase me with full detail and paint reflection in BeamNG.drive, and my air-cooled 5900X (six 120s and a Scythe Mugen 5) barely touched 70-72C even running PBO. Only time I've hit the 80s (87C peak) was running Cinebench R23, the stress test to end all stress tests at this current time. Also running an RTX3060ti in OC mode, in a case with 34 sq in of intake area.

Edited August 5, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, more info

[Brundage]

13 minutes ago, MLConian said:

Do you see any of these issues in the syslog somewhere? That could point us in the direction of the failing component here.

Every single critical error where it restarted is "Event 41, -Kernel Power"

[Brundage]

3 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

IMO stock AMD Wraith is garbage for a heavily loaded Zen3, period. There's a reason the 5800X / 5900X / 5950X do not come with them. You need a better cooler. 5600X is safe to 95C under full load, but it should not be getting even close to that just loading a game, that is not really full load.

I've spawned thirty cars to chase me with full detail and paint reflection in BeamNG.drive, and my air-cooled 5900X (six 120s and a Scythe Mugen 5) barely touched 70-72C even running PBO. Only time I've hit the 80s (87C peak) was running Cinebench R23, the stress test to end all stress tests at this current time. Also running an RTX3060ti in OC mode, in a case with 34 sq in of intake area.

I agree that stock coolers are not great and should be upgraded but also please remember that I'm running 9 Corsair AF120 on a SFX 750 W. I was going to upgrade the cooler no matter what once I get the money but I'm just trying to figure out if I need to upgrade the PSU before it or not.

[An0maly_76]

If you go with a better cooler, my recommendations would include the Scythe Mugen S and Thermalright Peerless Assassin. Lower temps = longer life and better performance. What case are you running? Other specs?

[MLConian]

2 minutes ago, Brundage said:

Every single critical error where it restarted is "Event 41, -Kernel Power"

Kernel Power errors, as weird as it may seem, tend to point to driver issues. Make sure you've updated your BIOS, vBIOS and drivers, then try again.

 

@An0maly_76 also brings up a good point - which leads me to the question how you mounted the fans in your case. That case is pretty tiny, and you could seriously impede the airflow with the wrong configuration of fans.

[Dukesilver27-]

I have no idea about the crashes, but your CPU temp under load is not normal, I've read around that max temp should be around 80-90C, even my intel i5-12400 with stock cooler (which notoriously is the very bare minimum, worse than AMD stock cooler) did not reach 90C.

You said that you reinstalled it twice? Did you clean the old thermal paste and reapply thermal paste when you reinstall it? I assume the contact between the heatsink and the CPU die would not be tight anymore if you did not clean it first.

Or maybe the contact is not good enough because you did not properly tighten it? There should be a guide somewhere about that mounting stock AMD coolers.

Also, intake on the top of CPU? Top mounted fans should be exhaust because the physics of air, hot air would go up and so if intake on the top then you'd be fighting with physics. You might create air turbulence, I'm not sure if it is enough to cause worse temps though. 

[Brundage]

Just now, An0maly_76 said:

If you go with a better cooler, my recommendations would include the Scythe Mugen S and Thermalright Peerless Assassin. Lower temps = longer life and better performance. What case are you running? Other specs?

I was thinking NZXT Kraken X53 but if that's not enough I'm willing to consider others. Here is my current part list. (I have the O11 D miniit just not on PC part picker. https://pcpartpicker.com/user/johnbrundage/saved/TzjKqs

[Brundage]

6 minutes ago, MLConian said:

Kernel Power errors, as weird as it may seem, tend to point to driver issues. Make sure you've updated your BIOS, vBIOS and drivers, then try again.

 

@An0maly_76 also brings up a good point - which leads me to the question how you mounted the fans in your case. That case is pretty tiny, and you could seriously impede the airflow with the wrong configuration of fans.

Back fan is exhaust, top 3 are intake, 2 on bottom are intake (ones near the back) and the one near the front is exhaust, The sides are exhaust (also nice pfp I love community)

[An0maly_76]

I'm not a fan of liquid cooling, but this case does seem to be designed for it.

 

Regardless of which way you go, I believe this will give optimum airflow and cooling with the right CPU cooler.

 

[Brundage]

7 minutes ago, Dukesilver27- said:

I have no idea about the crashes, but your CPU temp under load is not normal, I've read around that max temp should be around 80-90C, even my intel i5-12400 with stock cooler (which notoriously is the very bare minimum, worse than AMD stock cooler) did not reach 90C.

You said that you reinstalled it twice? Did you clean the old thermal paste and reapply thermal paste when you reinstall it? I assume the contact between the heatsink and the CPU die would not be tight anymore if you did not clean it first.

Or maybe the contact is not good enough because you did not properly tighten it? There should be a guide somewhere about that mounting stock AMD coolers.

Also, intake on the top of CPU? Top mounted fans should be exhaust because the physics of air, hot air would go up and so if intake on the top then you'd be fighting with physics. You might create air turbulence, I'm not sure if it is enough to cause worse temps though. 

I cleaned the CPU and Heatsink with a paper towel(I didn't have any isopropyl alcohol but I can go get some.) I think I tightened it enough. After reinstalling it the first time, I tightened it as much as I could and the computer didn't turn on but that may have been another issue as the computer takes about 5-10 seconds to turn on after hitting power. Please look at my reply to @MLConian to see my fan layout.

[Brundage]

3 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

I'm not a fan of liquid cooling, but this case does seem to be designed for it.

 

Regardless of which way you go, I believe this will give optimum airflow and cooling with the right CPU cooler.

 

Good to know, this is my first build and I have no idea how to configure the fans. I will switch it tomorrow morning and see how it goes. Also I would like to come back to my original question about if its the PSU. Do you think it could be? 750W btw.

[An0maly_76]

Just now, Brundage said:

Good to know, this is my first build and I have no idea how to configure the fans. I will switch it tomorrow morning and see how it goes. Also I would like to come back to my original question about if its the PSU. Do you think it could be? 750W btw.

750W could be cutting it a bit thin depending on how much other load there is, especially when you consider the effect of transients (GamersNexus did a nice vid on this). I have an 850W myself, and I only have seven fans, an M.2, a HDD, and an RTX3060ti. I always say you want your total peak wattage load to be more than 20% shy of the max to avoid problems.

[An0maly_76]

Also, depending on if you go liquid cooling, and if you go with dual radiators, you might want to do the fans a bit differently for that. Never draw IN from a radiator, that only draws heat into the case instead of exhausting it. If you ran one radiator, I would say pretty much the same as I showed earlier, with the one rad up top. If you run dual radiators, I would put the second on the side-draft and have those fans pushing out. Three 120s on the floor pulling in should do plenty. But I want to go on record as saying that liquid cooling is not necessary and is a MONUMENTAL PITA in the long term.

Edited August 5, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, more info

[Brundage]

1 minute ago, An0maly_76 said:

750W could be cutting it a bit thin depending on how much other load there is, especially when you consider the effect of transients (GamersNexus did a nice vid on this). I have an 850W myself, and I only have seven fans, an M.2, a HDD, and an RTX3060ti. I always say you want your total peak wattage load to be more than 20% shy of the max to avoid problems.

Hmmm. I'm unsure what to do here. I think that unplugging the fans could help me troubleshoot if it's with the power supply, I unplugged 3 of the fans and the issue has persisted but as I unplug more, the airflow will get worse and therefore the CPU temps may increase. Do you think this could be a viable troubleshoot? Thanks for all the help you've been. Getting this computer working has been unbelievably frustrating so having an expert is really helping.

[An0maly_76]

4 minutes ago, Brundage said:

Hmmm. I'm unsure what to do here. I think that unplugging the fans could help me troubleshoot if it's with the power supply, I unplugged 3 of the fans and the issue has persisted but as I unplug more, the airflow will get worse and therefore the CPU temps may increase. Do you think this could be a viable troubleshoot? Thanks for all the help you've been. Getting this computer working has been unbelievably frustrating so having an expert is really helping.

EXPERT? EXPERT, you say? *cackles* Boy, do I have you fooled

As for disconnecting fans for troubleshooting, not really, the fans don't induce near the load that GPU does when running hard, and disconnecting them will only exacerbate your heat problem. Check out this video.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, more info

[Brundage]

4 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

Not really, the fans don't induce near the load that GPU does when running hard, and disconnecting them will only exacerbate your heat problem. Check out this video.

 

After watching the first few minutes I would like to point out that I don't think this is the problem. This is because when the computer crashes it doesn't shut down. All the fans and led remain on. When it crashes the physical PC doesn't change at all but the screen goes black and I see the BIOS menu and the Windows boots. It seems like a transient would shutoff the PC entirely.

[An0maly_76]

18 minutes ago, Brundage said:

After watching the first few minutes I would like to point out that I don't think this is the problem. This is because when the computer crashes it doesn't shut down. All the fans and led remain on. When it crashes the physical PC doesn't change at all but the screen goes black and I see the BIOS menu and the Windows boots. It seems like a transient would shutoff the PC entirely.

And you're likely right. I just thought it would be good to enlighten you to the possibility, and what to look for.

[Brundage]

15 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

EXPERT? EXPERT, you say? *cackles* Boy, do I have you fooled

As for disconnecting fans for troubleshooting, not really, the fans don't induce near the load that GPU does when running hard, and disconnecting them will only exacerbate your heat problem. Check out this video.

 

 

I do have an idea. If I run a very heavy GPU game and the issue persists, it points towards it being a PSU issue. If I run a CPU heavy game, and the issue persists, it points to a cooling issue. Do you think this could be a good troubleshoot?

[Dukesilver27-]

2 minutes ago, Brundage said:

I do have an idea. If I run a very heavy GPU game and the issue persists, it points towards it being a PSU issue. If I run a CPU heavy game, and the issue persists, it points to a cooling issue. Do you think this could be a good troubleshoot?

Maybe run a stress test instead of games. 

Cinebench for CPU and Furmark for GPU, that way you could separate it clearly.

 

Also, have you tried checking all the drivers?

[Brundage]

1 minute ago, Dukesilver27- said:

Maybe run a stress test instead of games. 

Cinebench for CPU and Furmark for GPU, that way you could separate it clearly.

 

Also, have you tried checking all the drivers?

I think I've checked the drivers. I has some issues with Oculus link earlier before I realized this issue which cause me to roll back the NVIDIA driver to the last version but I have since updated it. I setup windows last night and I'm pretty sure that I installed all the drivers I needed. Is there a checklist I can look to for me to check if all the drivers are up to date and then see if the issues persist?

[Dukesilver27-]

23 minutes ago, Brundage said:

I think I've checked the drivers. I has some issues with Oculus link earlier before I realized this issue which cause me to roll back the NVIDIA driver to the last version but I have since updated it. I setup windows last night and I'm pretty sure that I installed all the drivers I needed. Is there a checklist I can look to for me to check if all the drivers are up to date and then see if the issues persist?

Check your motherboard's website, mine is an Asus Board, and they have a software called Armoury Crate that could download any hardware drivers needed by the PC.

If your board brand doesn't have that kind of software, then you could check with ccleaner, the have driver updater feature that is locked by paywall, but it will check the drivers on your PC without downloading it.

 

Downloading the drivers could be done by going to each hardware's website.

[MLConian]

1 hour ago, Brundage said:

I cleaned the CPU and Heatsink with a paper towel(I didn't have any isopropyl alcohol but I can go get some.) I think I tightened it enough. After reinstalling it the first time, I tightened it as much as I could and the computer didn't turn on but that may have been another issue as the computer takes about 5-10 seconds to turn on after hitting power. Please look at my reply to @MLConian to see my fan layout.

Yeah, with this particular case, that is most definitely the wrong configuration. This case draws air from the side and bottom, and exhausts through the back and top. Don't use the top for intake, you'll be fighting physics (hot air rises, but you're forcing it down, causing turbulence and trying to cool something hot with hot air does not work well). With your current config you're working not only against the CPU cooler, you're also causing your GPU to draw in much hotter, turbulent air and you're most likely making it nearly impossible for your PSU to cool.

The Lian Li website has this graphic to illustrate the appropriate cooling for the O11 Air, so it's a little different from yours, but it gives a good idea of what you should do. Blue is intake, red is exhaust. Your front intake is blocked by a glass panel however, so I'd take the side fans as intake.

As for the AiO/watercooling advice you've been given here: while there's no need for that with this CPU (a good air cooler can take care of this CPU), the case isn't that good for airflow. Sidemount a 240mm radiator for your intake or topmount a 240mm or 280mm radiator for exhaust if you can't get your temps fixed with a decent aircooler. A good aircooler isn't that expensive though - you could go with an Arctic Freezer 34 esports edition, be quiet! Dark Rock Slim BK024 or Noctua NH-U12A. Even the most expensive one of those 3 (the Noctua) is cheaper than most decent AiOs, except maybe for the Arctic Liquid Freezer II (without RGB that's about the same price as the Noctua).

[Brundage]

You've convinced me. I want to go with the Arctic Freezer 34 duo but I don't know if it will fit. It's about 175mm from motherboard to glass, considering that the cooler sits a few mm higher than the mb I don't know if it will fit. (The coolers height is 157mm)