i5-4570 bottleneck

[chunk]

What GPU could I get the most FPS with the i5-4570 without major bottleneck? I was thinking of the GTX 1660 SUPER, but I dont know if its gonna overkill for the CPU.

[cmndr]

The GPUs that will allow you to get the most FPS will almost surely be the 3090Ti and the 6950xt.

 

 

Asking about bottlenecking is a more of a meme (someone buys a new system with a $1000 CPU and a $50 video card, or vice versa) than a useful topic.

What you ought to focus on is use case(s), performance targets, price and targeted system lifespan. These aspects actually require you to think.

What is your use case? What settings? What performance targets are you aiming for? Do you currently have inadequate performance?

 

 

In most instances the CPU has historically mattered less than the GPU. In the cases where the CPU is the limit... it means you can turn up the graphics settings without much of a performance hit (BUT you'll still have somewhat low frame rates)

 

[YoungBlade]

Whether or not the 4570 will bottleneck depends entirely on what games you're playing. In some games, the 4570 does pretty well, offering over 100fps at all times. In other games, it is a stuttery mess.

 

What games do you want to play and how much money do you have to spend on the upgrade?

[chunk]

The pc is mainly for playing Warzone, and I know RTX 3090 would be ideal but I meant with a balance of bottleneck and performance. The GTX 1050 Ti or GTX 1650 would not have much bottleneck, however I was looking for something with more performance that is why I was thinking of a GTX 1660 or Gtx 1660 SUPER.

[YoungBlade]

2 minutes ago, chunk said:

The pc is mainly for playing Warzone, and I know RTX 3090 would be ideal but I meant with a balance of bottleneck and performance. The GTX 1050 Ti or GTX 1650 would not have much bottleneck, however I was looking for something with more performance that is why I was thinking of a GTX 1660 or Gtx 1660 SUPER.

If that's the main game you want to play, then I'd recommend something like the RX 570 (or RX 470). You can see in this video here that the pairing is pretty well balanced, with a slight CPU bottleneck at 1080p high settings. Honestly, Warzone is a super CPU intensive game - even if you upgraded to a 4770 or 4790, you'd probably still be CPU limited in most situations.

If you are willing to play with lower settings, then even a GTX 1050 Ti or RX 560 4GB could get the most out of your CPU. The RX 570 4GB or RX 470 can often be found used on eBay for under $150 and the RX 560 4GB isn't much cheaper. The GTX 1050 Ti is generally more expensive and has worse performance than the RX 570/470. Sometimes you can find an RX 580 4GB for around $150 used - that could be a very good option in terms of price/performance if you can find it for that price.

 

What graphics card do you currently have and does your system have a 6 or 8 pin PCIe power cable available?

[chunk]

9 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

If that's the main game you want to play, then I'd recommend something like the RX 570 (or RX 470). You can see in this video here that the pairing is pretty well balanced, with a slight CPU bottleneck at 1080p high settings. Honestly, Warzone is a super CPU intensive game - even if you upgraded to a 4770 or 4790, you'd probably still be CPU limited in most situations.

If you are willing to play with lower settings, then even a GTX 1050 Ti or RX 560 4GB could get the most out of your CPU. The RX 570 4GB or RX 470 can often be found used on eBay for under $150 and the RX 560 4GB isn't much cheaper. The GTX 1050 Ti is generally more expensive and has worse performance than the RX 570/470. Sometimes you can find an RX 580 4GB for around $150 used - that could be a very good option in terms of price/performance if you can find it for that price.

 

What graphics card do you currently have and does your system have a 6 or 8 pin PCIe power cable available?

I have a GT 1030 and It doesnt have a pcie cable

[YoungBlade]

2 minutes ago, chunk said:

I have a GT 1030 and It doesnt have a pcie cable

In that case, unless you upgrade your power supply, you are going to be limited to cards that draw all of their power from the slot. What kind of budget are you working with?

 

Sadly, the best option if you are limited to your current PSU is probably the RX 6400, which sells new for around $160. If you can get a GTX 1650 (non-Super) or 1050 Ti that doesn't require supplemental PCIe power, that would work too, but those are generally more expensive. The GTX 1650 would be ideal if you can find it for $180 or less, as it has full PCIe bandwidth at Gen 3 speeds, which is all your CPU supports. The RX 6400 loses half of its PCIe bandwidth when run in a Gen 3 system, which can result in performance losses, especially when near the 4GB VRAM limit.

 

Hardware Unboxed did a thorough review of the RX 6400. You can watch it to get the full picture of what the card offers and what its limits are:

 

[chunk]

8 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

In that case, unless you upgrade your power supply, you are going to be limited to cards that draw all of their power from the slot. What kind of budget are you working with?

 

Sadly, the best option if you are limited to your current PSU is probably the RX 6400, which sells new for around $160. If you can get a GTX 1650 (non-Super) or 1050 Ti that doesn't require supplemental PCIe power, that would work too, but those are generally more expensive. The GTX 1650 would be ideal if you can find it for $180 or less, as it has full PCIe bandwidth at Gen 3 speeds, which is all your CPU supports. The RX 6400 loses half of its PCIe bandwidth when run in a Gen 3 system, which can result in performance losses, especially when near the 4GB VRAM limit.

 

Hardware Unboxed did a thorough review of the RX 6400. You can watch it to get the full picture of what the card offers and what its limits are:

 

sorry im still a bit of a PC noob, I assumed you could simply order a pcie 8-pin connector and plug it in and it would work.

[YoungBlade]

1 minute ago, chunk said:

sorry im still a bit of a PC noob, I assumed you could simply order a pcie 8-pin connector and plug it in and it would work.

There are adapters from molex or SATA power to PCIe 8 pin, but these are not ideal. The SATA ones especially are dubious, because two SATA cables are not meant to carry as much current as a PCIe 8 pin can demand. If you have a couple of molex connectors available, you could consider it - although it's not recommended.

 

Here's what molex looks like if you're unfamiliar:

Spoiler

 

And here's what SATA power looks like:

Spoiler

 

Another concern is that the power supply won't be able to handle the additional load. I'm guessing you have an OEM system (old Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc) and those systems use a power supply that is designed to give enough power for how the system is configured by the OEM. For example, my old Lenovo K450 system has just a 250W PSU. This would make it unwise to install a card like the RX 580, as that card can draw over 180W. Even the 1660 Super draws around 125W, which would be half of the power available from the PSU. Remember that the PSU also has to provide power to the CPU, motherboard, drives, fans, etc.

 

Luckily, a power supply upgrade isn't that difficult, assuming the one that came with your computer is standard. You can get a 400-500W PSU for $25-40, so it's not that expensive, either, at least not when you're already considering spending $350+ on a 1660 Super.

 

Do you know what model the computer and/or PSU is? Or would you be able to share a picture of the inside of the system?

[chunk]

52 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

There are adapters from molex or SATA power to PCIe 8 pin, but these are not ideal. The SATA ones especially are dubious, because two SATA cables are not meant to carry as much current as a PCIe 8 pin can demand. If you have a couple of molex connectors available, you could consider it - although it's not recommended.

 

Here's what molex looks like if you're unfamiliar:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

And here's what SATA power looks like:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Another concern is that the power supply won't be able to handle the additional load. I'm guessing you have an OEM system (old Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc) and those systems use a power supply that is designed to give enough power for how the system is configured by the OEM. For example, my old Lenovo K450 system has just a 250W PSU. This would make it unwise to install a card like the RX 580, as that card can draw over 180W. Even the 1660 Super draws around 125W, which would be half of the power available from the PSU. Remember that the PSU also has to provide power to the CPU, motherboard, drives, fans, etc.

 

Luckily, a power supply upgrade isn't that difficult, assuming the one that came with your computer is standard. You can get a 400-500W PSU for $25-40, so it's not that expensive, either, at least not when you're already considering spending $350+ on a 1660 Super.

 

Do you know what model the computer and/or PSU is? Or would you be able to share a picture of the inside of the system?

Its this pre-built I got a while back similar to this one https://www.newegg.com/p/3D5-0019-00031?Description=periphio vortex&cm_re=periphio_vortex-_-9SIADGYFU76948-_-Product It has a 650 W power supply so I think it would be good. Btw can a molex be black?

[cmndr]

So digging into this -

https://www.pcgamesn.com/call-of-duty-warzone/pc-performance-analysis

 

Assuming you have a target frame rate of 60FPS at 1080p high, a 1650 Super or higher is sufficient. If you're targetting 120FPS then you'd be more interested in something like a 2060. This was done with an 8700k CPU which is a bit faster of a CPU than you have. That CPU is capable of driving war zone at 120+ FPS 99% of the time. If your CPU is half as powerful, it should be adequate for 60+ FPS 99% of the time (lots of assumptions). This is based on the time of the benchmark and it does appear that there have been performance regressions since.

 

 

https://overclock3d.net/reviews/software/call_of_duty_warzone_pc_performance_review_and_optimisation_guide/3

looking at THIS, it appears that a 6850k, when limited to 4 cores and 4 threads (similar to your CPU) is able to hit 99FPS 99% of the time. Your CPU would be something like 10-20% slower than that. Also be aware that if you have apps in the background then there will be performance regressions.


Going off of that logic... don't go higher than a 2060 Super unless you plan on playing at higher resolutions. You probably also don't want to go lower than a 1650 Super.

 

 

[SteveGrabowski0]

There is very little chance that power supply in the PC you linked can do anything close to 650W. If your PC came with a GT 1030 I doubt its PSU can do more than 300W on the +12V rail(s). Cheap power supplies lie about the power they can output. Here is a picture of the a 6+2 pin PCIE cable and an 8 pin PCIE cable:

 

 

If your power supply doesn't have at least two connectors like one of these coming out of it then it is absolutely not a 650W power supply. If it doesn't even have one it's probably not even a 300W power supply.

[SteveGrabowski0]

Not that having two 6+2 pin PCIE power connectors is a guarantee of 650W. My 450W power supply (Bitfenix Formula 450 Gold) has two for example, though it's a pretty high quality 450W unit.

[SteveGrabowski0]

13 hours ago, chunk said:

sorry im still a bit of a PC noob, I assumed you could simply order a pcie 8-pin connector and plug it in and it would work.

If your power supply does not have PCIE cables connected to it it cannot support a gpu like the 1660 Super, RX 570, or anything else requiring auxiliary power. Any power supply that could support a gpu like that will have PCIE cables built in.*

 

* Well, any non-modular power supply. But you're definitely not getting a modular power supply in a pre-built.

[YoungBlade]

14 hours ago, chunk said:

Its this pre-built I got a while back similar to this one https://www.newegg.com/p/3D5-0019-00031?Description=periphio vortex&cm_re=periphio_vortex-_-9SIADGYFU76948-_-Product It has a 650 W power supply so I think it would be good. Btw can a molex be black?

I have a hard time believing that a 650W power supply wouldn't have at least a 6-pin PCIe cable. The 6-pin standard is quite old, going all the way back to the early 2000s. I could see an i5 4570 system not having an 8-pin PCIe connector with its 650W PSU, as it was a relatively new standard back then, but a 650W PSU from that era would at least have a 6-pin PCIe connector.

 

Can we get a picture of the sticker on the side of the PSU so that we can see the model number and specifications? I'm guessing that either you missed the PCIe power connector or the PSU is lower wattage than you believe.

 

Also, yes, molex cables can be black.

[chunk]

4 hours ago, YoungBlade said:

I have a hard time believing that a 650W power supply wouldn't have at least a 6-pin PCIe cable. The 6-pin standard is quite old, going all the way back to the early 2000s. I could see an i5 4570 system not having an 8-pin PCIe connector with its 650W PSU, as it was a relatively new standard back then, but a 650W PSU from that era would at least have a 6-pin PCIe connector.

 

Can we get a picture of the sticker on the side of the PSU so that we can see the model number and specifications? I'm guessing that either you missed the PCIe power connector or the PSU is lower wattage than you believe.

 

Also, yes, molex cables can be black.

I asked someone from the company and  apparently he said it does have a pcie connector. Once I get home I’ll check and confirm.

[chunk]

19 hours ago, cmndr said:

So digging into this -

https://www.pcgamesn.com/call-of-duty-warzone/pc-performance-analysis

 

Assuming you have a target frame rate of 60FPS at 1080p high, a 1650 Super or higher is sufficient. If you're targetting 120FPS then you'd be more interested in something like a 2060. This was done with an 8700k CPU which is a bit faster of a CPU than you have. That CPU is capable of driving war zone at 120+ FPS 99% of the time. If your CPU is half as powerful, it should be adequate for 60+ FPS 99% of the time (lots of assumptions). This is based on the time of the benchmark and it does appear that there have been performance regressions since.

 

 

https://overclock3d.net/reviews/software/call_of_duty_warzone_pc_performance_review_and_optimisation_guide/3

looking at THIS, it appears that a 6850k, when limited to 4 cores and 4 threads (similar to your CPU) is able to hit 99FPS 99% of the time. Your CPU would be something like 10-20% slower than that. Also be aware that if you have apps in the background then there will be performance regressions.


Going off of that logic... don't go higher than a 2060 Super unless you plan on playing at higher resolutions. You probably also don't want to go lower than a 1650 Super.

 

 

yeah i was trying to not to spend much more than 300 dollars 

[cmndr]

36 minutes ago, chunk said:

yeah i was trying to not to spend much more than 300 dollars 

You don't have to...

Just buy a slower card.

 

That's how purchases work.
1. Define use case, budget, etc.
2. make selection balancing those choices.

Contrary to "I R GAMER111!11!!!" lore, there's no rule that says you have to push every boundary. You can often have a very enjoyable experience with modest equipment and that's just fine.

[chunk]

19 hours ago, cmndr said:

You don't have to...

Just buy a slower card.

 

That's how purchases work.
1. Define use case, budget, etc.
2. make selection balancing those choices.

Contrary to "I R GAMER111!11!!!" lore, there's no rule that says you have to push every boundary. You can often have a very enjoyable experience with modest equipment and that's just fine.

Yeah but honestly I just don’t know how much of a difference it would make between a GTX 1650 or for a hundred dollars more a card like a GTX 1660 super. I know the 1660 is much more powerful but I don’t know how much of a difference it would make with my current CPU

[chunk]

On 5/18/2022 at 8:14 AM, SteveGrabowski0 said:

There is very little chance that power supply in the PC you linked can do anything close to 650W. If your PC came with a GT 1030 I doubt its PSU can do more than 300W on the +12V rail(s). Cheap power supplies lie about the power they can output. Here is a picture of the a 6+2 pin PCIE cable and an 8 pin PCIE cable:

 

 

If your power supply doesn't have at least two connectors like one of these coming out of it then it is absolutely not a 650W power supply. If it doesn't even have one it's probably not even a 300W power supply.

https://www.newegg.com/p/1HU-0249-00004?item=9SIAVA3DNN6177&source=region&nm_mc=knc-googlemkp-pc&cm_mmc=knc-googlemkp-pc-_-pla-gamemax+store-_-power+supplies-_-9SIAVA3DNN6177&id1=2085254365&id2=76465707963&id3=&id4=&id5=pla-1304510594804&id6=&id7=9061130&id8=&id9=g&id10=c&id11=&id12=Cj0KCQjwmuiTBhDoARIsAPiv6L-gJdZRYhr7tVHr2G6Hll2xrrwb3NTE37tHVe-eL2gyQ0eJO2No4EAaAsNtEALw_wcB&id13=&id14=Y&id15=&id16=375255748922&id17=&id18=&id19=&id20=&id21=pla&id22=325105695&id23=online&id24=9SIAVA3DNN6177&id25=US&id26=1304510594804&id27=Y&id28=&id29=&id30=16073928322266237430&id31=en&id32=&id33=&id34=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmuiTBhDoARIsAPiv6L-gJdZRYhr7tVHr2G6Hll2xrrwb3NTE37tHVe-eL2gyQ0eJO2No4EAaAsNtEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds Thats the PSU in the pc. It says it has a pcie power cable, and several people from the company have told me they have them, however I cannot seem to find the cord in my PC.

 

[SteveGrabowski0]

2 hours ago, chunk said:

https://www.newegg.com/p/1HU-0249-00004?item=9SIAVA3DNN6177&source=region&nm_mc=knc-googlemkp-pc&cm_mmc=knc-googlemkp-pc-_-pla-gamemax+store-_-power+supplies-_-9SIAVA3DNN6177&id1=2085254365&id2=76465707963&id3=&id4=&id5=pla-1304510594804&id6=&id7=9061130&id8=&id9=g&id10=c&id11=&id12=Cj0KCQjwmuiTBhDoARIsAPiv6L-gJdZRYhr7tVHr2G6Hll2xrrwb3NTE37tHVe-eL2gyQ0eJO2No4EAaAsNtEALw_wcB&id13=&id14=Y&id15=&id16=375255748922&id17=&id18=&id19=&id20=&id21=pla&id22=325105695&id23=online&id24=9SIAVA3DNN6177&id25=US&id26=1304510594804&id27=Y&id28=&id29=&id30=16073928322266237430&id31=en&id32=&id33=&id34=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmuiTBhDoARIsAPiv6L-gJdZRYhr7tVHr2G6Hll2xrrwb3NTE37tHVe-eL2gyQ0eJO2No4EAaAsNtEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds Thats the PSU in the pc. It says it has a pcie power cable, and several people from the company have told me they have them, however I cannot seem to find the cord in my PC.

 

From that link it's really a 528W power supply, as what matters is the power on the +12 Volt rail. It always sounds a little shady when a power supply is marketed as something higher than what it can do on the +12V rail(s) though.

 

 

And here are the PCIE cables to look for from that psu:

 

 

If it can come anywhere remotely within the stated 528W on the +12V rail continuously you should have no problem running a 1660 Super on it. I run a 1660 Super and a similar cpu on a 450W psu (eg 450W on the +12V rails), but it's considered one of the better 450W units out there.