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First time custom loop. Temperature spike

StarSight
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Hello All,

 

First time doing a water loop and although everything I purchased did connect together, I could not figure out why my temperature is behaving the way it is.

 

My system:

Fractal Define R4 Windowed

i5 10600K OCed 4.9Ghz (water cooled)

Asus z490-a strix gaming

64GB t-force ram 1.4v

EVGA FTW3 3070Ti +200Mhz (Not water cooled)

 

EK Velocity 

Corsair XR5 360 with 2 ML120 in push only

EK-Quantum Reflection Fractal ATX D5 PWM D-RGB - Plexi

Dazmode flow RPM indicator

 

The rad is front mounted and used as intake

another 140 at the bottom of the case is also used as intake

my only exhaust is a 140 at the back of the case

 

My problem:

Ambient is 20C

CPU idle is 50-55C with either my side panel on or off. (ie. the lack of exhaust is not an issue)

GPU idle at 40C (not water cooled)

D5 is running at max (4700RPM)

Flow RPM indicator is at 510RPM (Sadly I don't have a flow meter yet)

Cinebench R22 will take it to 95C in 2 seconds. and then slowly maintain it at 89C for the remaining of the test. It will return back to 50-55C 2 seconds after the test completes. 

Even if I just open a product search on Amazon, my CPU will start "idling" at 70C.

I used to use Phanteks PH-TC14PE CPU air cooler. I was able to get the same OC but with the CPU idling at 40C and Cinebench test will hit 80C max after 10 seconds. (ie. gradual) 

 

Q&A:

For some of the common question that people might ask.

Q1: Why do I only use 1 exhaust?

A: I am going with water cool not only for the look but also for the quietness. Therefore I don't have any plan to remove my sound dampening mats at the top of the case. 

Q2: Why do I only use 2 intake fans on the 360 rad?

A: Because the Define R4 only have filter for 2 fans at the front. I might modify it later if I need to. But with only the CPU needing to be cooled, this is not an issue. 

Q3: No flow meter?

A: I did not expected there would be any issue with volume flow rate since I am using a D5 with only a CPU block and a 360 rad. I only got a RPM indicator just for the sake of knowing the water is flowing.

 

My suspicion:

Thermal paste was not applied properly or the CPU block is not sitting properly. (Both of which I checked and seems normal)

Flow rate is too low. I don't have anyway of checking this right now without a flow meter. There isn't any sources for me to correlate the RPM indicator (510 RPM) to volume flow. If someone has this data, please share! 

I don't see why the flow rate would be low especially I only have 1 rad and the EK distro plate is designed to have two 360 rad with a GPU block as well. 

 

 

Please help:)

 

 

PXL_20220418_133335292.jpg

Edited by StarSight
Add photograph of the system
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Posted

Is the pump plugged into the motherboard on a header marked for AIOs/water cooling? 

 

I know u say the pump is running at 4700RPM, but I want to make sure. 

 

The way ur case is designed, the placement of the fans is correct. Just gotta make sure the air flow is into the case on the front, and out of the case on the back, but I'm sure u have already done this. 

 

I also forget how that distro plate is setup, but aren't there too many connections there? Like for just a CPU block and a combined pump and distro plate, I would expect less tubing. May be wrong, but it could also be that there is just a lot of resistance in the loop that is slowing down flow rate. Idk if 510RPM in the flow indicator is low, high, or what. 

Fuck you scalpers, fuck you scammers, fuck all of you jerks that charge way too much to tech-illiterate people. 

Unless I say I am speaking from experience or can confirm my expertise, assume it is an educated guess.

Current setup: Ryzen 5 3600, MSI MPG B550, 2x8GB DDR4-3200, RX 5600 XT (+120 core, +320 Mem), 1TB WD SN550, 1TB Team MP33, 2TB Seagate Barracuda Compute, 500GB Samsung 860 Evo, Corsair 4000D Airflow, 650W 80+ Gold. Razer peripherals. 

Also have a Alienware Alpha R1: i3-4170T, GTX 860M (≈ a 750 Ti). 2x4GB DDR3L-1600, Crucial MX500

My past and current projects: VR Flight Sim: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=dG38Jx (Done!)

A do it all server for educational use: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=vmmNcf (Cancelled)

Replacement of my friend's PC nicknamed Donkey, going from 2nd gen i5 to Zen+ R5: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=WmsW4D (Done!)

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4 minutes ago, Nathanpete said:

Is the pump plugged into the motherboard on a header marked for AIOs/water cooling? 

 

I know u say the pump is running at 4700RPM, but I want to make sure. 

 

The way ur case is designed, the placement of the fans is correct. Just gotta make sure the air flow is into the case on the front, and out of the case on the back, but I'm sure u have already done this. 

 

I am using the motherboard's AIO pin. Based on the manual (and I confirmed), it is running at full speed. 

Armoury crate can overwrite the default setting if I choose to manually set the fan speed. And the flow rpm indicator will run at 200rpm or 0 rpm if the pump speed is reduced to 2300RPM or lower. 

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1 minute ago, StarSight said:

 

I am using the motherboard's AIO pin. Based on the manual (and I confirmed), it is running at full speed. 

Armoury crate can overwrite the default setting if I choose to manually set the fan speed. And the flow rpm indicator will run at 200rpm or 0 rpm if the pump speed is reduced to 2300RPM or lower. 

Alright then. So that isnt the problem. I also updated my first post with more thoughts 

Fuck you scalpers, fuck you scammers, fuck all of you jerks that charge way too much to tech-illiterate people. 

Unless I say I am speaking from experience or can confirm my expertise, assume it is an educated guess.

Current setup: Ryzen 5 3600, MSI MPG B550, 2x8GB DDR4-3200, RX 5600 XT (+120 core, +320 Mem), 1TB WD SN550, 1TB Team MP33, 2TB Seagate Barracuda Compute, 500GB Samsung 860 Evo, Corsair 4000D Airflow, 650W 80+ Gold. Razer peripherals. 

Also have a Alienware Alpha R1: i3-4170T, GTX 860M (≈ a 750 Ti). 2x4GB DDR3L-1600, Crucial MX500

My past and current projects: VR Flight Sim: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=dG38Jx (Done!)

A do it all server for educational use: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=vmmNcf (Cancelled)

Replacement of my friend's PC nicknamed Donkey, going from 2nd gen i5 to Zen+ R5: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=WmsW4D (Done!)

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19 minutes ago, Nathanpete said:

Is the pump plugged into the motherboard on a header marked for AIOs/water cooling? 

 

I know u say the pump is running at 4700RPM, but I want to make sure. 

 

The way ur case is designed, the placement of the fans is correct. Just gotta make sure the air flow is into the case on the front, and out of the case on the back, but I'm sure u have already done this. 

 

I also forget how that distro plate is setup, but aren't there too many connections there? Like for just a CPU block and a combined pump and distro plate, I would expect less tubing. May be wrong, but it could also be that there is just a lot of resistance in the loop that is slowing down flow rate. Idk if 510RPM in the flow indicator is low, high, or what. 

Yes, the distro plate has a lot of connection. This particular one has enough for 2 360 rad and a GPU water block. I am not using GPU block nor have another 360 rad. However, I did added a few extra loop for cosmetic reason. But I really don't think that will significantly reduces my flow since a straight loop across is still less restricted than someone that will be using this distro plate with another GPU or rad. 

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25 minutes ago, StarSight said:

Yes, the distro plate has a lot of connection. This particular one has enough for 2 360 rad and a GPU water block. I am not using GPU block nor have another 360 rad. However, I did added a few extra loop for cosmetic reason. But I really don't think that will significantly reduces my flow since a straight loop across is still less restricted than someone that will be using this distro plate with another GPU or rad. 

Same. I didn't think it was the cause of your problem at all. Was just questioning it bc it's ok to question things.

In terms of solving your problem, I'm stumped.

Fuck you scalpers, fuck you scammers, fuck all of you jerks that charge way too much to tech-illiterate people. 

Unless I say I am speaking from experience or can confirm my expertise, assume it is an educated guess.

Current setup: Ryzen 5 3600, MSI MPG B550, 2x8GB DDR4-3200, RX 5600 XT (+120 core, +320 Mem), 1TB WD SN550, 1TB Team MP33, 2TB Seagate Barracuda Compute, 500GB Samsung 860 Evo, Corsair 4000D Airflow, 650W 80+ Gold. Razer peripherals. 

Also have a Alienware Alpha R1: i3-4170T, GTX 860M (≈ a 750 Ti). 2x4GB DDR3L-1600, Crucial MX500

My past and current projects: VR Flight Sim: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=dG38Jx (Done!)

A do it all server for educational use: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=vmmNcf (Cancelled)

Replacement of my friend's PC nicknamed Donkey, going from 2nd gen i5 to Zen+ R5: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=WmsW4D (Done!)

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Posted
7 hours ago, StarSight said:

Hello All,

 

First time doing a water loop and although everything I purchased did connect together, I could not figure out why my temperature is behaving the way it is.

 

My system:

Fractal Define R4 Windowed

i5 10600K OCed 4.9Ghz (water cooled)

 

we need to know the W's  🙂

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32 minutes ago, NorKris said:

we need to know the W's  🙂

Actual wattage I don't know but the CPU core voltage is between 1.25 to 1.35V. This is the same voltage when I were using the air cooler. 

Pretty sure it is not because the rad or coolant loop is overloaded. 

GPU is not even in the loop. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, StarSight said:

Actual wattage I don't know but the CPU core voltage is between 1.25 to 1.35V. This is the same voltage when I were using the air cooler. 

Pretty sure it is not because the rad or coolant loop is overloaded. 

GPU is not even in the loop. 

 

 

1.25 to 1.35 is a biig range.  can you find out  the  watts up ? 🙂

 

i have a intel cpu that goes 100 c with a loop like urs too..  much much wattzz

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17 minutes ago, StarSight said:

1.376V from CPU-Z

image.png.48bf0df0e8da429b51b6799e66aeec63.png

 

1.376 = insane 😛  but 191 on 1,252.      ssoo ur at  270watt maybe.. maybe more  

 

95c in 2 sec sounds about right,  and ur on  TWO fans  for that load lol

 

you can have a bad mount too ofc, but do keep in mind that heating up all that metal in ur old cooler takes time. but i do not think that ur old cooler could handle that load if  both tests where run for 30m+ 

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14 minutes ago, NorKris said:

image.png.48bf0df0e8da429b51b6799e66aeec63.png

 

1.376 = insane 😛  but 191 on 1,252.      ssoo ur at  270watt maybe.. maybe more  

 

95c in 2 sec sounds about right,  and ur on  TWO fans  for that load lol

 

you can have a bad mount too ofc, but do keep in mind that heating up all that metal in ur old cooler takes time. but i do not think that ur old cooler could handle that load if  both tests where run for 30m+ 

I see what you are saying now. In addition to the voltage being high (which is true that I have not done 30min+ stability run because I discover this temperature problem first), you don't think there is a problem with the flow rate? I found a lot of forum saying to have a minimum of 1gal/h rate and most modern D5 will be able to achieve that even with some restriction. My problem is I have no idea what my flow rate is other than the flow rpm which I have no idea what that correlates to. 

Would you happen to have a systems that have both a flow rate meter and a rpm meter?

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1 minute ago, StarSight said:

I see what you are saying now. In addition to the voltage being high (which is true that I have not done 30min+ stability run because I discover this temperature problem first), you don't think there is a problem with the flow rate? I found a lot of forum saying to have a minimum of 1gal/h rate and most modern D5 will be able to achieve that even with some restriction. My problem is I have no idea what my flow rate is other than the flow rpm which I have no idea what that correlates to. 

Would you happen to have a systems that have both a flow rate meter and a rpm meter?

i dont think u have a flowrate problem 😮  u have 2 problems
1: a cpu pulling WAAAY too much power for 2 fans
2: u have no intake 
..
3.. sad to say this (this applies only if u did not change ur fan config from Air cooling to loop):   ur downgraded ur cooling system ...  3 intake fans feeding a big air cooler is better than 2 (blocked by front panel) feeding a 360  

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3 minutes ago, StarSight said:

I see what you are saying now. In addition to the voltage being high (which is true that I have not done 30min+ stability run because I discover this temperature problem first), you don't think there is a problem with the flow rate? I found a lot of forum saying to have a minimum of 1gal/h rate and most modern D5 will be able to achieve that even with some restriction. My problem is I have no idea what my flow rate is other than the flow rpm which I have no idea what that correlates to. 

Would you happen to have a systems that have both a flow rate meter and a rpm meter?

and how can i be so sure prob dont have a flow problem? i run a cpu that pulls more W than u, and i can almost cool it.. and i use a loop (3rads) with AIO pumps  XD

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14 minutes ago, NorKris said:

i dont think u have a flowrate problem 😮  u have 2 problems
1: a cpu pulling WAAAY too much power for 2 fans
2: u have no intake 
..
3.. sad to say this (this applies only if u did not change ur fan config from Air cooling to loop):   ur downgraded ur cooling system ...  3 intake fans feeding a big air cooler is better than 2 (blocked by front panel) feeding a 360  

1. I see.

2. To my understanding, exhaust makes a bigger impact to the internal temperature than intakes. However, none of this should be a problem when I open my side panel. These temperature reading I provided did not change at all when my side panel is off. So I don't think it is a intake/ exhaust issue.

3. I can see this being the case if my case is closed. I just don't understand how it could still be the case if my side panel is off and it has at much air it wants. 

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22 minutes ago, NorKris said:

and how can i be so sure prob dont have a flow problem? i run a cpu that pulls more W than u, and i can almost cool it.. and i use a loop (3rads) with AIO pumps  XD

Do you have an approximate time on how quickly your temperature raised to the maximum cooling capacity of your loop? Cause I can understand my loop is at capacity if everything heats up over few minutes of running (water temp, GPU temp, etc.).

Reason I kept circling back to flow is because when I touch my inlet and outlet tube, the temperature is both both close to ambient (I also wish I have a water temperature sensor right now). Which tells me the hot coolant is just not moving away from the CPU to the rad quick enough (I think).

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6 minutes ago, StarSight said:

 

2. To my understanding, exhaust makes a bigger impact to the internal temperature than intakes. However, none of this should be a problem when I open my side panel. These temperature reading I provided did not change at all when my side panel is off. So I don't think it is a intake/ exhaust issue.

ur cpu temps are 0% affected by sidepanel     0%

 

u have a intake problem  and mybe a mount problem

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1 minute ago, StarSight said:

Do you have an approximate time on how quickly your temperature raised to the maximum cooling capacity of your loop? Reason I kept circling back to flow is because when I touch my inlet and outlet tube, the temperature is both both close to ambient (I also wish I have a water temperature sensor right now). Which tells me the hot coolant is just not moving away from the CPU to the rad quick enough (I think).

cpu temps gets to 100 within 5 sec  but the water  takes time to get to 38c

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4 minutes ago, StarSight said:

Maybe I will try stock and see how the temperature behaves. 

Yee, i have 7940x, i dont know how much watt i draw from software (dont know if MB or cpu is to blame for that)  but a smart power bar tells me wattz, and from idle to cpu stress test the diff is almost 350w. and  2x 360 rads and push pull fans  ... 100c within 5-7sec ...

what can u do xD

 

get rid of that (bad) case man 😄 

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7 minutes ago, NorKris said:

Yee, i have 7940x, i dont know how much watt i draw from software (dont know if MB or cpu is to blame for that)  but a smart power bar tells me wattz, and from idle to cpu stress test the diff is almost 350w. and  2x 360 rads and push pull fans  ... 100c within 5-7sec ...

what can u do xD

 

get rid of that (bad) case man 😄 

Yeah I actually do have a plug wattage meter. I should try that too.

 

I love my R4 lol. Been using it for probably more than 10 years now. It still almost does everything I want.

For this upgrade, I did had to manually remove the DVD cage as R4 was the last generation before Fractal upgrade the case to allow for 3 front fans.

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5 minutes ago, StarSight said:

None OC. Core Voltage: 1.15V 

whole system draw ~110W on idle.

CPU at 43C idle.

 

Cinebench R22

76-80C

190W

 

 

 

nice. the mount and thermal paste apply can be abit ... uknow

 

190w is still alot 😛 damn

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3 minutes ago, NorKris said:

nice. the mount and thermal paste apply can be abit ... uknow

 

190w is still alot 😛 damn

OCed to 1.30V just to check total wattage

idle 50C

130W

 

Cinebench R22

95C

240W

 

Maybe the stock thermal paste from EK is not good.

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4 minutes ago, StarSight said:

OCed to 1.30V just to check total wattage

idle 50C

130W

 

Cinebench R22

95C

240W

 

Maybe the stock thermal paste from EK is not good.

remember that thermalpaste is 1-3c max(between worst and best)   and 3 diff is extreeme to see 

 

240w + 2fans + 95c =  sounds about right

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