[UPDATE] i7 8700k ridiculously high temps 5ghz OC

[Diggy-]

*** Gonna be providing a lot of small details just so you guys can rule out possible noobs mistakes on my part

ASUS Z370-E (I have a fair amount of settings changed in the BIOS to disable power management features, but I get the same results at default settings.)

i7-8700K / 5.0ghz @ 1.34v

Corsair H115i (280mm AIO; 2 Noctua fans in pull on top of case, I even took off the removable top grill for maximum airflow)

Corsair 500R case with 2x 120mm stock fans in front, and 1x Noctua 140mm case fan exhausting out the back.

 

I've been gaming on this mobo, cpu, cooler for over a year running this overclock and gaming just fine, but of course my temps run into the high 80s. I'm only so concerned because with a RTX 3090, the 8700k bottlenecks it and I wanted to squeeze more performance out of the cpu.

 

So I've seen many other people online run significantly higher voltages at 5.0-5.2ghz, like 1.39v is the most common I see, but when I run Prime95 Small FFTs, I get an instant jump to 100c even when starting from cold, which of course I end the test immediately (confirmed in HWiNFO64, CoreTemp, as well as Corsair LINK). Using an anti-static vacuum, I have blown out dust from the rad and the case in general, can't get it 100% perfect tho. Since I'm a noob when overclocking I just set fans to 100% constantly so I don't have to mess with it until I'm done, and I've confirmed that my AIO fans and my AIO pump are indeed operating at 100% when I set it to max because I can hear them. I unscrewed my cooler from the CPU and shook the water block to get any potential bubbles out and reapplied Grizzly thermal paste (have tried arctic silver 5 too), a little more than the size of a pea's worth to the center. My motherboard has a backplate pre-installed that sits really loose when no cooler is installed, but when you install it tightens itself. I made sure to install the 4 screws hand tight in a star pattern, then took a screwdriver and just gave it about a half turn to get them nice and snug. The waterblock itself isn't oriented in any weird way, the corsair logo is right side up (I know sometimes the pipes above the pump is bad or something like that).

 

The sentiment I get online is that the 8700k should be able to do 5.0ghz most of the time... but instant 100C? Did I lose the silicon lottery? Do you think there could STILL be bubbles in my AIO pump? I just can't seem to figure it out.

 

EDIT: Also something I wanted to mention. I remember I started with a Corsair H100i (240mm AIO with stock Corsair fans) and then upgraded to the H115i with Noctua fans to try and solve the issue, just wanted to rule out the possibility of a bad cooler.

 

*** EDIT 2: Delidding *** : I have delidded my 8700k and am happy to report that I'm editing this post on that very CPU right now  So at the exact same bios settings........ remember instant 100c before......... now I see it between 68c-74c O_O but now it seems my CPU is starving for voltage when running Prime95, because I keep getting BSODs. I've gone from 1.34v all the way up to 1.39v and still get crashes all the same, so not sure if there's some kind of voltage regulation going on (HWiNFO64 seems to report that the voltage is indeed where I set it)... I never ran tests at these settings before for any longer than like 5 seconds so I must have been missing voltage this whole time. I must sleep for tonight, and I'll have more results later tomorrow.

 

[An0maly_76]

I think a pic of your cooling setup is in order, obviously something isn't getting airflow where it is needed.

[Diggy-]

2 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

I think a pic of your cooling setup is in order, obviously something isn't getting airflow where it is needed.

Okay give me a few minutes I'll get pics.

[An0maly_76]

Just now, Diggy- said:

Okay give me a few minutes I'll get pics.

First, a picture is worth a thousand words. Secondly, I wonder if your top fans aren't disrupting the front-to-back airflow pattern and creating a vortex that keeps your CPU from cooling. This is one of my concerns with my new build as well, as it is a similar setup minus the AIO. I have 3x120 front, 1x120 rear, Scythe Mugen 5 cooler and 2x120 fans topside.

 

Also, are you sure all your fans are blowing the correct direction and not blowing AT each other? When fans blow AT each other, all they are doing is wasting electricity unless another sucks or pushes from another direction.

[Diggy-]

9 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

I think a pic of your cooling setup is in order, obviously something isn't getting airflow where it is needed.

Perhaps I took too many pictures, but just wanted you to see the full extent of what I have. The rad may look dirty, but I assure you it's just cuz the rad is over a year old. I used the anti-static vacuum on it today to blow out as much as I could. And just to be super clear, it only hits 100C when doing temp testing like that, not at idle or anything crazy.

[Diggy-]

10 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

First, a picture is worth a thousand words. Secondly, I wonder if your top fans aren't disrupting the front-to-back airflow pattern and creating a vortex that keeps your CPU from cooling. This is one of my concerns with my new build as well, as it is a similar setup minus the AIO. I have 3x120 front, 1x120 rear, Scythe Mugen 5 cooler and 2x120 fans topside.

 

Also, are you sure all your fans are blowing the correct direction and not blowing AT each other? When fans blow AT each other, all they are doing is wasting electricity unless another sucks or pushes from another direction.

I'm absolutely sure the fans are faced correctly, as I assume you can tell from the pics. And this is not a new build (although I get what you're saying). Some parts are older than others, but the newest parts are the ones that are relevant here.

[An0maly_76]

I always say with pics, better to have and not need, than need and not have. But yeah, this is good.

 

So... You say that this setup is overclocked, and has been running in the 80s, now all of a sudden it's spiking at 100. Or did it only start running 100 with the overclock? If so, it sounds like you may need to increase the efficiency of the existing cooling.

 

First, take a piece of paper, napkin, whatever. Hold it to your outside grilles front and rear for just a moment and note whether they pull the paper to them, or blow it away. Your fronts should pull it to them, your rear should blow it away. If not, that's part of your problem.

 

Second, take the same piece of paper and do the same with your top fans. See whether it pulls the paper flat against the grille or tries to blow it away.

 

If all this checks out, I don't normally recommend anyone put smoke or dust through a system. But if you can handle burning some incense or something and letting some of that get into the airflow briefly, the incense smoke will show you the path your airflow is taking within the case. And that can tell you if your airflow is getting bogged down anywhere and it won't be too hard to figure out why.

 

EDIT: It could also be that your AIO pump is getting weak and no longer able to move the fluid efficiently enough. AIO pump failures are more common than most think.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Pull config is not good, i suggest flipping your aio fans to be push and leave the rear fan be the only exhaust

 

Also is the cpu delidded? Youll want to delid the cpu and use liquid metal tim for better temps

 

Volts wise intel 14nm spec is 1.52v so you wont need to worry about volts being a danger till mid 5g or so (if your cpu can even get that far), temps wise prefferably under 70c for stability and better ocing but 80c also works as long as you dont go over 1.5v

[Diggy-]

3 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

I always say with pics, better to have and not need, than need and not have. But yeah, this is good.

 

So... You say that this setup is overclocked, and has been running in the 80s, now all of a sudden it's spiking at 100. Or did it only start running 100 with the overclock? If so, it sounds like you may need to increase the efficiency of the existing cooling.

 

First, take a piece of paper, napkin, whatever. Hold it to your outside grilles front and rear for just a moment and note whether they pull the paper to them, or blow it away. Your fronts should pull it to them, your rear should blow it away. If not, that's part of your problem.

 

Second, take the same piece of paper and do the same with your top fans. See whether it pulls the paper flat against the grille or tries to blow it away.

 

If all this checks out, I don't normally recommend anyone put smoke or dust through a system. But if you can handle burning some incense or something and letting some of that get into the airflow briefly, it will tell you if your airflow is getting bogged down anywhere and it won't be too hard to figure out why.

It runs in the 80s, and sometimes even into the low 90s while gaming, but when put through synthetic tests like Prime95 with maximum heat it instantly hits 100C. I've just kinda put up with it for over a year and just said "if it dies it's just an excuse to upgrade". But since then I went from a GTX 1080 to a RTX 3090, and yes the 8700k absolutely bottlenecks the 3090 even at 5ghz, especially with other programs open in the background like Malwarebytes, which is why now I'm concerned about my overclock... wondering why I'm getting these insane temps when compared online... thinking about why I shouldn't be able to get 5.2ghz... I get the silicon lottery but I just don't think it should be this bad. And I just did your little experiment with a paper towel. Held over the top even with the grill on, towel floats under my hand about 6 inches above, and below the rad the towel is absolutely pegged to the rad, so no issues there. I can buy an incense tomorrow and see what happens.

[An0maly_76]

One other thought -- is your system sitting directly under a ceiling duct for central air? It's possible the airflow from that could be deadlocking your topside exhaust fans when it's running. As in, they may be turning, but the volume of air coming down from above may be overpowering their ability to move air.

Edited March 4, 2022 by An0maly_76

[Bitter]

What were non OC temps hitting? How old is the AIO?

[Robchil]

8700K is the CPU that gain most from a delid.. and apply liquid metal. 

 

and check if it is totaly flat. 

[Diggy-]

16 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Pull config is not good, i suggest flipping your aio fans to be push and leave the rear fan be the only exhaust

 

Also is the cpu delidded? Youll want to delid the cpu and use liquid metal tim for better temps

 

Volts wise intel 14nm spec is 1.52v so you wont need to worry about volts being a danger till mid 5g or so (if your cpu can even get that far), temps wise prefferably under 70c for stability and better ocing but 80c also works as long as you dont go over 1.5v

Are you saying that my pull config is not good, or are you saying that all pull configs are not good? I think you're saying to keep fans in the same place, but just reverse them to push air down into the case, to then have the air exhaust out the back. I'll try that.

 

The CPU is not delidded. At that point I'd rather just do some side hustles for about a month to get the money to just upgrade my CPU. 

 

And I am aware of the max voltages provided by Intel, but the point I'm making, is why am I getting instant 100C temps in Prime95 with 1.34v when there are plenty of guides out there when Googling "8700k asus z370e oc guide" that show people running much higher voltages and sometimes even higher clocks and not having these heat problems?

[Diggy-]

11 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

One other thought -- is your system sitting directly under a ceiling duct for central air? It's possible the airflow from that could be deadlocking your topside exhaust fans when it's running. As in, they may be turning, but the volume of air coming down from above may be overpowering their ability to move air.

A good thought. There is a vent on the ceiling above my computer, but my problem occurs even with the central air off, so this in my opinion is not the issue. 

 

Edit: Also my ambient temp is ~69F

[Diggy-]

10 minutes ago, Robchil said:

8700K is the CPU that gain most from a delid.. and apply liquid metal. 

 

and check if it is totaly flat. 

I'm a bit of a noob, is delidding expensive? Can I do it myself? I know it's dangerous.

[Diggy-]

14 minutes ago, Bitter said:

What were non OC temps hitting? How old is the AIO?

I will get back to you on this tomorrow. My AIO is over 1 year old. This has been an issue since the parts were brand new.

[An0maly_76]

16 minutes ago, Diggy- said:

A good thought. There is a vent on the ceiling above my computer, but my problem occurs even with the central air off, so this in my opinion is not the issue. 

 

Edit: Also my ambient temp is ~69F

I always say, check the simple stuff first. What about filters? My current build uses a Corsair 4000 series case and it has filters all around, maybe one of them is clogged slightly, or, if the AIO pump is working, it may still be weak, or (less likely) there may be a blockage in the plumbing? Don't assume the AIO is perfect just because it runs, because I've seen electric motors slow down or fail completely when they get to a certain temperature.

 

As for pull configurations, I think what SRTB is saying is not that they're bad in general, but that they're not ideal for all situations. And on that point I have to agree, they don't necessarily perform well in ALL situations. Personally, I wonder if your temps might not drop, if even slightly, by flipping your top radiator and fans to reverse the airflow, and let the rear exhaust fan do its thing. Would be a good test. All you'd be out is the time, and if it helps...

[Diggy-]

1 minute ago, An0maly_76 said:

I always say, check the simple stuff first. What about filters? My current build uses a Corsair 4000 series case and it has filters all around, maybe one of them is clogged slightly, or, if the AIO pump is working, it may still be weak, or (less likely) there may be a blockage in the plumbing? Don't assume the AIO is perfect just because it runs, because I've seen electric motors slow down or fail completely when they get to a certain temperature.

I just vacuumed out the whole case with my anti-static vacuum today, and I could definitely see the cooler being bad or whatever as a possibility, but I actually just edited my original post to mention that I started out with a Corsair H100i (240mm AIO) and had this same issue... so I tried to fix it with an H115i upgrade with Noctua fans. So I think the possibility of a bad cooler is highly unlikely, but I suppose is still possible.

[Robchil]

18 minutes ago, Diggy- said:

I'm a bit of a noob, is delidding expensive? Can I do it myself? I know it's dangerous.

not realy. ask your local PC shop if they do it. should be around 50$ max. 

if you want to buy the kit it's about twice... 

 

look up der bauer delid kit, and kryonot conductonaugt. liquid metal. 

you need to check gamers nexus delid video. to do it correctly. 

 

and yes. my old 8700k dropped 20degrees. 

 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

14 minutes ago, Diggy- said:

my ambient temp is ~69F

n o i c e

 

13 minutes ago, Diggy- said:

is delidding expensive? Can I do it myself? I know it's dangerous.

No its not dangerous unless you try to hammer the ihs or use a vice to delid aka the old delidding methods

 

You just need to buy a cheap generic chinese delliding tool off ebay or aliexpress or wherever you can find it, they are pretty cheap too, the liquid metal is the expensive part but they are ~10$ and you can use em on your gpu too if you wanna lower the temps on it aswell

[An0maly_76]

Here's the thing, OP, cooling is all about heat transfer to fluid (or air) to be carried away elsewhere. Bigger load = more capacity needed. This is why some cars have three-core radiators when most only need two-core. This means three rows of cooling tubes in the radiator, as opposed to two. Bigger engines, towing, air-conditioning and lots of city driving or mountain driving, all push a car's cooling system to the limit, and that is why for some, a two-core radiator just won't cut it, they need a three-core. Think of your overclock as mountain driving while towing.

 

That being said, forgive my potential ignorance here, as I am not intimately familiar with AIO system components, but assuming flipping the top cooler / fan arrangement doesn't help this issue, I wonder if perhaps looping and stacking two radiators up top and reversing airflow would solve this issue, if there is room to do so. It would effectively increase your cooling capacity at least 50%, accounting for the loss in full efficiency across the second radiator. And it could do better than that.

 

Also, OP, if your case has a top filter (my Corsair does), that more or less means it was designed to pull air IN at the top, not push it out. So maybe SRTB is on to something about simply reversing your top airflow. Just a thought.

 

EDIT: All this makes me glad I've never overclocked or messed with AIOs... I'm a set-it-and-forget-it kinda guy...

Edited March 4, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, typo

[Diggy-]

7 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

Forgive my potential ignorance here, as I am not intimately familiar with AIO system components, but assuming flipping the top cooler / fan arrangement doesn't help this issue, I wonder if perhaps looping and stacking two radiators up top and reversing airflow would solve this issue, if there is room to do so.

 

Here's the thing, OP, if your case has a top filter (my Corsair does), that more or less means it was designed to pull air IN at the top, not push it out. Just a thought.

 

EDIT: All this makes me glad I've never overclocked or messed with AIOs... I'm a set-it-and-forget-it kinda guy...

The grill on top is not a filter, merely something to protect the fans from a cat jumping on it and getting it's legs caught in the fins, or something like that lol. Definitely not an air filter. Also, here is a SS of my system about 30 seconds into Prime95 Small FFTs at pretty much default BIOS settings. All I did was set XMP up for my RAMs speed.

[Diggy-]

43 minutes ago, Bitter said:

What were non OC temps hitting? How old is the AIO?

 

1 minute ago, Diggy- said:

The grill on top is not a filter, merely something to protect the fans from a cat jumping on it and getting it's legs caught in the fins, or something like that lol. Definitely not an air filter. Also, here is a SS of my system about 30 seconds into Prime95 Small FFTs at pretty much default BIOS settings. All I did was set XMP up for my RAMs speed.

Here you go.

[Diggy-]

23 minutes ago, Robchil said:

not realy. ask your local PC shop if they do it. should be around 50$ max. 

if you want to buy the kit it's about twice... 

 

look up der bauer delid kit, and kryonot conductonaugt. liquid metal. 

you need to check gamers nexus delid video. to do it correctly. 

 

and yes. my old 8700k dropped 20degrees. 

 

If I took it to a PC shop, would they be insured? Would they buy me another CPU if they break it? I'm not opposed to doing it myself but just kinda weighing my options.

[An0maly_76]

 EDIT:

8 minutes ago, Diggy- said:

If I took it to a PC shop, would they be insured? Would they buy me another CPU if they break it? I'm not opposed to doing it myself but just kinda weighing my options.

Not likely, OP. Anything that would void a manufacturer's warranty is not going to be condoned or backed by a shop. They may not even do it because of the liability.

 

No offense to OP, but things like this are why I've always viewed building a PC as being very similar to building an engine, and why I view overclocking / delidding as the equivalent of using nitrous on an engine. Too much of a good thing can get VERY, VERY BAD -- VERY, VERY QUICKLY.

 

For example, with mom's minivan or Gramps' Cadillac, you don't need a lot of power, you just need smoothness, and that's easily done with garden-variety components.

 

But when you're building an engine for a hot rod or a race car, the power is changed dramatically, and so do the stresses, heat, etc. Not to mention other components in the vehicle may have to be modified to handle the extra power, stresses, and heat. Which is why my $1500 budget got blown all to hell very quickly once I realized that the 5900X seriously increased the cooling needs of my system.

 

Case in point, my current build. 5900X = hot tamale. Any system board without substantial VRM cooling is a waste of time. A beast of a CPU cooler is needed as well. And the case needs to have sufficient airflow and fans to move it efficiently.

 

I say this because processors are under enough stress with the heat they generate by themselves. Even with delidding, overclocking can still reduce its longevity, because when you get right down to it, overclocking is the equivalent of slapping a 250 hp nitrous kit on your already bad-ass race engine. Nitrous doesn't add power in and of itself, it simply cools the intake air charge, which increases its density, thereby increasing the air volume. And this allows you to throw more fuel into the engine, which will make more power.

 

Here's the thing. With nitrous, you have to do a lot of tuning and a lot of homework to keep from blowing that engine up when using it. And I view overclocking and messing with RAM timings as being the equivalent of nitrous for a performance PC. Sooner or later, you're going to push it too far, with disastrous results.

 

I look at it this way. Take my 5900X build for example. Could I have spent half the money on a 3800X or 3900X, overclocked / delidded it and gotten the same performance? Probably. But I'd probably also be right where OP is, scratching my head and wondering why I can't keep my CPU cool. Just my $0.02.

Edited March 4, 2022 by An0maly_76
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