Upgraded from 3800x to 5800x, temps reaching 90º with same config

[rul3s]

Hi!
Yesterday arrived my new 5800x and I changed it from my actualy 3800x. The rest of the config is:

- Asus x470 Strix F (latest bios)
- Noctua NHU12A
- Phanteks Enthoo Pro M case with open side and 4 14cm fan
- Seasonic Focus+ 650W
- RTX3070

- DDR4 3600CL16 Bdie

 

As I said, I only changed CPU and I'm having so high temps:

- On bios 67º
- On Windows in idle 55º
- Cinebench reaching 90º and throtling

 

 

With my 3800x I was on 75º at highest with exactly same config. I tried two thermal paste, Noctua NHU1 and Artic MX4, also different aplications, dot, X, spread, etc... The only one it worked "better" and cinebench reduced from 90º to 88º it was aplying a lot of thermal paste with spread method.

 

 

My motherboard is aplying 1.25vid for 4.4GHz running cinebench as you can see, is this OK?

Maybe I have faulty IHS? Can I RMA for this?

 

Thanks four your help!

 

[Tan3l6]

Have you tried reapplying thermal paste and reseating the cooler?

[rul3s]

1 minute ago, Tan3l6 said:

Have you tried reapplying thermal paste and reseating the cooler?

Yes, as 4 times, triing diferent thermal paste and aplitations methods (X and spread).

[Morgan MLGman]

In general your clock speeds and performance seems a tiny bit lower than what they should be, but regarding the temperatures I had the same case when I upgraded from 3700X to 5800X.
Apparently the 5800X does run that hot and that's by design according to AMD, to get higher performance as the silicon itself is made so it can run at that temperature.

https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-views-ryzen-5000-cpu-temperatures-up-to-95c-as-typical-and-by-design/

Quote

Hallock provided a longer answer, explaining that 90C is normal a Ryzen 9 5950X (16C/32T, up to 4.9GHz), Ryzen 9 5900X (12C/24T, up to 4.8GHz), and Ryzen 7 5800X (8C/16T, up to 4.7GHz) at full load, and 95C is normal for the Ryzen 5 5600X (6C/12T, up to 4.6GHz) when spinning its wheels as fast as they will go.

"Yes. I want to be clear with everyone that AMD views temps up to 90C (5800X/5900X/5950X) and 95C (5600X) as typical and by design for full load conditions. Having a higher maximum temperature supported by the silicon and firmware allows the CPU to pursue higher and longer boost performance before the algorithm pulls back for thermal reasons," Hallock said.

"Is it the same as Zen 2 or our competitor? No. But that doesn't mean something is 'wrong.' These parts are running exactly as-designed, producing the performance results we intend," Hallock continued.

Hope this answers your question.

[BlazeWingbreaker]

it's common on 5800X

 

try an RMA if possible, i had the same issue and was offered an upgrade to 5900x which ran cooler

 

[rul3s]

28 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

In general your clock speeds and performance seems a tiny bit lower than what they should be, but regarding the temperatures I had the same case when I upgraded from 3700X to 5800X.
Apparently the 5800X does run that hot and that's by design according to AMD, to get higher performance as the silicon itself is made so it can run at that temperature.

https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-views-ryzen-5000-cpu-temperatures-up-to-95c-as-typical-and-by-design/

Hope this answers your question.

But I can't accept this as an answer when other people are not reaching 90º on stock on full load. But, being on idle between 50-60º and 67º on uefi with a Noctua I think there's something wrong with it, dont you think?

 

When I reaplied thermal paste I made a pic on heatsink, but I think its a clearly convex IHS

 

29 minutes ago, BlazeWingbreaker said:

it's common on 5800X

 

try an RMA if possible, i had the same issue and was offered an upgrade to 5900x which ran cooler

 

Did you RMA directly with AMD? Or with the store?

 

Thanks!

[Morgan MLGman]

1 minute ago, rul3s said:

But I can't accept this as an answer when other people are not reaching 90º on stock on full load. But, being on idle between 50-60º and 67º on uefi with a Noctua I think there's something wrong with it, dont you think?

Well, my 5800X runs at stock settings with PBO enabled and all voltage/current/wattage limits removed. In gaming it runs around 70-75C, but in Cinebench R20 it can reach even 88C. And this is in a Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic case that has 9 fans and a 360mm Corsair AIO cooler. The thermal paste is Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut, so I've got a pretty high-end setup there and the temps are still quite high.

Idle temps are irrelevant, voltages usually are very high on Ryzen chips when they're in idle. It runs 45-60C when browsing the web for me too.

[rul3s]

10 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Well, my 5800X runs at stock settings with PBO enabled and all voltage/current/wattage limits removed. In gaming it runs around 70-75C, but in Cinebench R20 it can reach even 88C. And this is in a Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic case that has 9 fans and a 360mm Corsair AIO cooler. The thermal paste is Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut, so I've got a pretty high-end setup there and the temps are still quite high.

Idle temps are irrelevant, voltages usually are very high on Ryzen chips when they're in idle. It runs 45-60C when browsing the web for me too.

 

 

We should be on 60-80º full load with high end air or aio and AMD states, I think we both have a "little" problem xD

[Morgan MLGman]

6 minutes ago, rul3s said:

 

 

We should be on 60-80º full load with high end air or aio and AMD states, I think we both have a "little" problem xD

Those figures only apply if your CPU runs fully stock, without PBO enabled and adheres to the TDP number. Mine doesn't, because I've removed those limits so higher temps are indeed expected

Also, different workloads use different instruction sets and cinebench is one in particular that heats those CPUs up, for instance in AIDA64 CPU stress test it doesn't get nearly as hot and rarely hits 80C for me.

[rul3s]

7 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Those figures only apply if your CPU runs fully stock, without PBO enabled and adheres to the TDP number. Mine doesn't, because I've removed those limits so higher temps are indeed expected

Also, different workloads use different instruction sets and cinebench is one in particular that heats those CPUs up, for instance in AIDA64 CPU stress test it doesn't get nearly as hot and rarely hits 80C for me.

But in my case I'm running fully stock with PBO disabled. Even with that, PPT is reaching 140W, stock ppt is 105W? Maybe i have to limit it to 105w and see if changes? Maybe it's a problem with my motherboard that is doing OC even if I'm not doing it...

 

Thanks!

Edited May 7, 2021 by rul3s

[Tan3l6]

I wonder how many watts does CPU consume.
Maybe check that either with OCCT or HwiNFO64. Just to get an idea..

Under full load. 

 

Edit - the power consumption was in the first post...

140W 

[Morgan MLGman]

4 minutes ago, rul3s said:

But in my case I'm running fully stock with PBO disabled. Even with that, PPT is reaching 140W, stock ppt is 105W? Maybe i have to limit it to 105w and see if changes? Maybe it's a problem with my motherboard that is doing OC even if I'm not doing it...

 

Thanks!

Yes, this is a setting that you set in BIOS (PPT), it limits how many watts of power your CPU can draw and purely stock would be 105W. If it's reaching 140W then it's unlocked in the BIOS to do that, and it's pretty common for motherboard vendors to do that out-of-the-box to get higher performance at the expense of thermals.

What are your temperatures when gaming?

[rul3s]

49 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Yes, this is a setting that you set in BIOS (PPT), it limits how many watts of power your CPU can draw and purely stock would be 105W. If it's reaching 140W then it's unlocked in the BIOS to do that, and it's pretty common for motherboard vendors to do that out-of-the-box to get higher performance at the expense of thermals.

What are your temperatures when gaming?

So it's asus doing it's thing. The worst thing is that I see reviews and suposed "stock" is performing better than my "stock oced". No games tested, I'll try them on weekend, I'll say you samething.

Thanks!

[Morgan MLGman]

8 minutes ago, rul3s said:

So it's asus doing it's thing. The worst thing is that I see reviews and suposed "stock" is performing better than my "stock oced". No games tested, I'll try them on weekend, I'll say you samething.

Thanks!

Well, since clock speeds in modern CPUs depend on a combination of temperature and power requirements it may perform better if it's kept at lower temps. In my case the CPU runs about 4.85GHz in lightly threaded workloads and 4.55-4.6GHz in multithreaded ones like Cinebench or other stress tests.
What's the thermal paste you're using? Also, why did you write in the original post that your case side panel is open? It should be closed for optimal case airflow, provided you have a correct fan setup (usually front & bottom are intake and top and rear are exhaust).

[Tan3l6]

Now I saw the power consumption - 143W max? 

With my CNPS20X I see same very similar temps under 180W load. Bit different CPU though, but power consumption is still the same factor.

[rul3s]

27 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Well, since clock speeds in modern CPUs depend on a combination of temperature and power requirements it may perform better if it's kept at lower temps. In my case the CPU runs about 4.85GHz in lightly threaded workloads and 4.55-4.6GHz in multithreaded ones like Cinebench or other stress tests.
What's the thermal paste you're using? Also, why did you write in the original post that your case side panel is open? It should be closed for optimal case airflow, provided you have a correct fan setup (usually front & bottom are intake and top and rear are exhaust).

This is my case config:

 

I still had it open because of assembly/dissasembly testing. Thermal as I stated on the OP I've tried Noctua NHU1 and Artic MX4, same results more or less. Only thing that changed them is to put a lot more thermal than usual, i got 3º less, and that's why I think i really have much convex IHS, because with lots of thermal paste temps goes down.

 

Also I see that offset voltage does not work, if I set offset -0.05 or -0.1 temps and voltages are the same when running Cinebench. And about core curve optimizer I didnt found it on my BIOS....

[Morgan MLGman]

30 minutes ago, rul3s said:

Also I see that offset voltage does not work, if I set offset -0.05 or -0.1 temps and voltages are the same when running Cinebench. And about core curve optimizer I didnt found it on my BIOS....

What could help in this case (cinebench temps) would be using a different LLC (Load Line Calibration) setting, this pretty much determines what's the voltage curve depending on the CPU load. Each motherboard manufacturer implements that a little differently, so I can't say which setting would you have to choose. Preferably the one that has higher voltage droop.

34 minutes ago, rul3s said:

Only thing that changed them is to put a lot more thermal than usual, i got 3º less, and that's why I think i really have much convex IHS, because with lots of thermal paste temps goes down.

Honestly when applying a thermal paste it's actually better to use more than you need than less than you need, so applying more of it in general is a good practice. Your IHS may not be perfectly flat, but thermal paste should mostly fix that issue. Keep in mind that with Ryzen chips, and especially the current Ryzen 7 lineup you have only one, fairly small area that gets very hot - which is where the CCX die is. Here's a render picture, I marked the "hot" die over there:

The other die is the I/O die and it doesn't get nearly that hot. So you've got a very small, dense and hot area that's not in the middle, which is why proper thermal paste application matters a lot

[NekoBubbles]

Go into PBO and set the PPT 105 and the TDC 90 and EDC to 80 (My freinds recommended if air cooling bios settings) 

Should bring down the temps at the cost of like 1% to 3% of performance to a still toasty but comfy  60 to 78 C's

 I'm using a PPT of 115 with a TDC 90 and a EDC to 80 cause I have a giant EVGA 360 aio RAD. I don't think I've seen my temps get much higher than 75 C's under load. (And what I use that works for my water cooling set up.)

The 5800x is a beast in terms of using simply too much wattage for its power I've found running up to like 30 to as much as 40 watts more than its parts actually need to be still a giant power house. 

I've been gaming for almost now 2 months stable.

[BlazeWingbreaker]

On 5/7/2021 at 5:21 PM, rul3s said:

Did you RMA directly with AMD? Or with the store?

 

Thanks!

sorry for late reply, I RMA with the local distributor in my country

[rul3s]

Hello! I have news.

Finally I've contacted AMD and they RMA the cpu. The new cpu they sent me is like 8-10º less, so obviusly something was wrong on the old one.

 

Thanks for your help!