Timecode / GenLock over HDMI

[Telekeneto]

This is probably a long shot, but I've been trying a bunch of different forums around the internet and hopefully someone here will have some experience.

 

Looking to jam timecode from my C300 mk3 into unreal engine for virtual production. The blackmagic SDI card is like $900 right now which makes it prohibitively expensive for me on an indie level.

 

I found an HDMI to SDI converter that claims it converts timecode as well, but there are no reviews and googling it is super unhelpful.

 

Said converter:https://aidaimaging.com/gcon-hdmi/

[LaFemmeEnVert]

45 minutes ago, Telekeneto said:

This is probably a long shot, but I've been trying a bunch of different forums around the internet and hopefully someone here will have some experience.

 

Looking to jam timecode from my C300 mk3 into unreal engine for virtual production. The blackmagic SDI card is like $900 right now which makes it prohibitively expensive for me on an indie level.

 

I found an HDMI to SDI converter that claims it converts timecode as well, but there are no reviews and googling it is super unhelpful.

 

Said converter:https://aidaimaging.com/gcon-hdmi/

are you talking about the bm 4k extreme 12g when you say $900 card?

do you have a windows machine or apple?

is this what you wnat to do?  c300 sends a 4K video signal which includes timecode data to computer running unreal or you just want to send the timecode signal separate of the video signal>?

[Telekeneto]

1 hour ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

are you talking about the bm 4k extreme 12g when you say $900 card?

do you have a windows machine or apple?

is this what you wnat to do?  c300 sends a 4K video signal which includes timecode data to computer running unreal or you just want to send the timecode signal separate of the video signal>?

Correct the BMP extreme 12.g.

 

Windows machine.

 

Yes I'm hoping to get the timecode data to the computer running unreal so I can syncronize my frame timings. I know it's not the best way to do it, but it's the most cost effective way right now. I am researching ways to learn this technology for my job to eventually help build a true volume.

[LaFemmeEnVert]

1 hour ago, Telekeneto said:

Correct the BMP extreme 12.g.

 

Windows machine.

 

Yes I'm hoping to get the timecode data to the computer running unreal so I can syncronize my frame timings. I know it's not the best way to do it, but it's the most cost effective way right now. I am researching ways to learn this technology for my job to eventually help build a true volume.

the gcon-hdmi is only a signal converter.  if you buy that, do you have a capture card on your computer because you will still need a capture device?

if you don't need 4K resolution, there are other HDMI and SDI capture decklink cards made by blackmagic which are cheaper than the extrreme 12g

reading unreal engine support, it implies they only support aja and blackmagic cards.  if you really want to talk with a community of experienced unreal engine devs/users, maybe look for a group on facebook and ask the questions there

 

[Telekeneto]

35 minutes ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

the gcon-hdmi is only a signal converter.  if you buy that, do you have a capture card on your computer because you will still need a capture device?

if you don't need 4K resolution, there are other HDMI and SDI capture decklink cards made by blackmagic which are cheaper than the extrreme 12g

reading unreal engine support, it implies they only support aja and blackmagic cards.  if you really want to talk with a community of experienced unreal engine devs/users, maybe look for a group on facebook and ask the questions there

 

Yeah I have an additional el-gato camlink that I can use to capture. I have been posting in the facebook group but unfortunately not getting any responses. I appreciate your response! Trying to teach myself all this without anyone who has experience, bit tricky. Is there a facebook group more catered to the actual camera side of unreal production?

[LaFemmeEnVert]

9 minutes ago, Telekeneto said:

Yeah I have an additional el-gato camlink that I can use to capture. I have been posting in the facebook group but unfortunately not getting any responses. I appreciate your response! Trying to teach myself all this without anyone who has experience, bit tricky. Is there a facebook group more catered to the actual camera side of unreal production?

does the unreal engine recognize the camlink and see the camera if there is a camera connected? but i assume unreal doesnt read timecode from the camlink?
not sure, i am not a unreal enginer user or developer and our productions haven't needed it so far so dont know unreal facebook groups.  though i have a friend who dabbles in it for testing

i have a decklink 8k card in my workstation, i can test to see if unreal will read the timecode from the sdi connection if I connect a camera.  you will need to wait til monday though

[Telekeneto]

6 hours ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

does the unreal engine recognize the camlink and see the camera if there is a camera connected? but i assume unreal doesnt read timecode from the camlink?
not sure, i am not a unreal enginer user or developer and our productions haven't needed it so far so dont know unreal facebook groups.  though i have a friend who dabbles in it for testing

i have a decklink 8k card in my workstation, i can test to see if unreal will read the timecode from the sdi connection if I connect a camera.  you will need to wait til monday though

It recognizes the camera but it's not getting the timecode from the camlink. May need to spring for a more expensive capture option. It would be great if you could check on monday! But no big deal if you can't. I really appreciate it either way.

[LaFemmeEnVert]

5 hours ago, Telekeneto said:

It recognizes the camera but it's not getting the timecode from the camlink. May need to spring for a more expensive capture option. It would be great if you could check on monday! But no big deal if you can't. I really appreciate it either way.

if the camlink doesn't pass timecode data even if you use the gcon converter the camlink will still strip the timecode.  the ideal is to use a capture card from aja or blackmagic, but you need to select the model that supports the resolution and framerate you desire

i will do the test with my 8k decklink mondy

[LaFemmeEnVert]

On 4/25/2021 at 3:34 AM, Telekeneto said:

It recognizes the camera but it's not getting the timecode from the camlink. May need to spring for a more expensive capture option. It would be great if you could check on monday! But no big deal if you can't. I really appreciate it either way.

using the decklink 8K pro card and my camera, SDI video out from camera to SDI input on the decklink I can set the unreal engine to read the embedded timecode from the signal.  i don't need to connect a separate cable from my camera's timecode/genlock out port to the decklink card's reference input

i didn't test the genlock but if timecode works genlock should work too

follow this guide  https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/WorkingWithMedia/ProVideoIO/TimecodeGenlock/index.html

and maybe refer to this gude for cards that have been tested to work with unreal https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/WorkingWithMedia/ProVideoIO/BlackmagicIOReference/index.html

[LaFemmeEnVert]

On 4/25/2021 at 3:34 AM, Telekeneto said:

It recognizes the camera but it's not getting the timecode from the camlink. May need to spring for a more expensive capture option. It would be great if you could check on monday! But no big deal if you can't. I really appreciate it either way.

i think you should get a capture card that is meant for 'broadcast' level of use. the elgato camlink cards are consumer grade capture so they don't have the same features or functions like blackmagic or aja cards.

 

[Telekeneto]

4 hours ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

i think you should get a capture card that is meant for 'broadcast' level of use. the elgato camlink cards are consumer grade capture so they don't have the same features or functions like blackmagic or aja cards.

 

This is awesome to know. Thanks so much for testing it for me. Yeah I think that's what I'll end up needing to do. It doesn't seem feasible to convert SDI to HDMI and then into another capture device. I feel like I'm adding too many points of failure. Thanks for the link and your time! I'm gonna look into finding some used capture cards and start saving, haha.

[kasugatei]

Although everything was answered, let me add few things:

- according to SMPTE standard timecode is embedded into SDI signal.

- Genlock is used to synchronize playout and it is not directly related to timecode, but I would strongly recommend to use the same sync source on both player (camera) and receiver (card)

 

Speaking of cards if you plan to go with Blackmagic be careful that not all 4K Decklink cards are actually 12G SDI. Most of them are 6G SDI. I know it is obvious, but mentioning it just in case

For this purpose Decklink 8K should probably be the cheapest new option. 4K extreme has optical in/out which is not  used that much outside of the broadcast environments and some other features which just add to the price, but are not needed for this specific case.