Looking for a NAS (probably?)

[LightningMachine]

For a while now I've been looking for a better solution to back up important files on my system than just putting in an external hard drive and patiently copy-and-pasting every single file on that drive. 

 

I would like a system that backs up my files twice (which saves everything in case of technical failure). So, a RAID, basically.

 

And I'd like it to be accessible by computers other than my own.

 

What reliable, quality products would you guys recommend for this? I've been looking around and the WD MyCloud EX2 Ultra seems to fit the bill. Are there any other suggestions?

[Pixel5]

the first question would be how much data and what kind of data are we talking about and then also what budget do you have in mind?

[GDRRiley]

9 minutes ago, LightningMachine said:

I would like a system that backs up my files twice (which saves everything in case of technical failure). So, a RAID, basically.

that isn't raid then. you want a cloud backup option like backblaze and then a local copy on a NAS.

I'd avoid WD nas units. Qnap and most other nas vendors offer app or plugins to give you backup software option

[Archer42]

19 minutes ago, LightningMachine said:

I would like a system that backs up my files twice (which saves everything in case of technical failure). So, a RAID, basically.

RAID is not backup.

RAID is good for availability in case of hdd failures, but all data on RAID array can still be lost in case of hardware failures, software failures, or user error.

If what you want is safe data storage what you need is some sort of automated backup onto some external storage.

 

If you already have external hdd for backups just install some backup software, veeam agent for example, and configure automated backups onto those hdd.

[jj9987]

RAID and multiple drives only offer you redundancy, that helps against a drive loss (how many, depends on the specific RAID or filesystem you will use). Redundancy doesn't help against accidentally deleted files.

 

Backups however mean keeping your data in numerous other places away from the main storage. Even if your whole NAS and all the drives die or if you get hit by ransomware, you will still have all your data. Examples include Backblaze or you can even use S3/Google Cloud Storage or similar options.

 

General rule for backups is 3-2-1 - 3 copies of your data on 2 different media types (e.g. NAS and cloud) and one being away/off-site for disaster recovery.

 

One supports the other in ensuring you have all your data available at any time. You most likely want both, a NAS as well as something that can upload the files to another, backed up storage.

[Master Disaster]

Here's how I handle backups.

 

Most important stuff on my PC & Laptop gets rsynced with a folder on my NAS once every 24 hours. Any downloads that I want to keep (videos, pictures, music files, app installers, ISOs etc etc) get downloaded directly on to my NAS.

 

Once a week my NAS syncs all new files over to a USB HDD using snapshots.

 

This way if my NAS RAID fails I only lose a few days of data and can easily recover.

 

Technically the USB HDD should really be off site since, if for example my house burned down, I'd lose everything on the NAS and the USB HDD but meh, its not like there's anything on there that would cause me problems if I lost it.

 

I do however back up my pictures to Onedrive.

[Master Disaster]

27 minutes ago, jj9987 said:

General rule for backups is 3-2-1 - 3 copies of your data on 2 different media types (e.g. NAS and cloud) and one being away/off-site for disaster recovery.

For a business sure, for a home user storing their personal files this is WAAAAY overkill.

[LightningMachine]

1 hour ago, Pixel5 said:

the first question would be how much data and what kind of data are we talking about and then also what budget do you have in mind?

Movies, music, audiobooks, lots of files that get pretty chunky when you combine it all. Currently I'm using a little less than 3TB of data, but this will obviously increase every year. In terms of budget... I'd rather first look at what my options are. If I say "400EUR" then usually people will recommend devices that are 500EUR without checking cheaper alternatives first.

[LightningMachine]

1 hour ago, GDRRiley said:

that isn't raid then. you want a cloud backup option like backblaze and then a local copy on a NAS.

I'd avoid WD nas units. Qnap and most other nas vendors offer app or plugins to give you backup software option

Why would you avoid WD NAS units? I'm genuinely curious.

[Master Disaster]

2 minutes ago, LightningMachine said:

Why would you avoid WD NAS units? I'm genuinely curious.

Because they're essentially glorified USB HDDs with a minimal effort firmware interface bolted on.

 

If you want a prebuilt NAS get a Synology. They cost a bit more but DSM just works with minimal setup required, everything is about as user friendly as it could be and their reliability is legendary.

 

At a push QNAP devices are at least reliable though I hear the software interface is pretty bad (never tried it myself so I cannot say for sure).

[Master Disaster]

13 minutes ago, LightningMachine said:

Movies, music, audiobooks, lots of files that get pretty chunky when you combine it all. Currently I'm using a little less than 3TB of data, but this will obviously increase every year. In terms of budget... I'd rather first look at what my options are. If I say "400EUR" then usually people will recommend devices that are 500EUR without checking cheaper alternatives first.

The reason people recommend the more expensive devices is simply because the cheaper you go, the less reliable they become and for storage, reliability is generally very high on the list of priorities.

[LightningMachine]

11 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

The reason people recommend the more expensive devices is simply because the cheaper you go, the less reliable they become and for storage, reliability is generally very high on the list of priorities.

This has been an enriching experience for me. Lots of interesting things to read. 

 

So, to recap. The thing I'm looking for isn't really a RAID, but rather a NAS, but the NAS devices that are worth using, like Synology, cost more but you get a far more solid machine in return. 

 

Even though it has a subscription fee, which I don't really like, I think Backblaze does indeed offer the solution I'm looking for.

[Master Disaster]

1 minute ago, LightningMachine said:

This has been an enriching experience for me. Lots of interesting things to read. 

 

So, to recap. The thing I'm looking for isn't really a RAID, but rather a NAS, but the NAS devices that are worth using, like Synology, cost more but you get a far more solid machine in return.

Exactly correct.

[Pixel5]

1 hour ago, LightningMachine said:

Movies, music, audiobooks, lots of files that get pretty chunky when you combine it all. Currently I'm using a little less than 3TB of data, but this will obviously increase every year. In terms of budget... I'd rather first look at what my options are. If I say "400EUR" then usually people will recommend devices that are 500EUR without checking cheaper alternatives first.

as other have mentioned for that amount of money you cant really get much, just getting two 8TB drives for example would already consume the entire budget and then you also have no place to put these drives.

 

Step one for you is to check what files do you really need to have backed up, most people think they need a backup of everything until they realize that this costs money.

 

Once this is done you can check which services you have available for this, for example if you have Amazon prime you get unlimited storage for photos or if you have Office 365 you get 1TB storage on Onedrive.

 

chances are you dont need anything extra and can even backup the really important data on a service you already pay for.

[Archer42]

I might be repeating myself, but honestly for simple backup at home all that's needed is external hdd and some software.

Everything else like NAS, raid arrays, etc is optional and IMO you need to really understand for what reason you are getting it, or you'll be just wasting money.

Disaster recovery, cloud backups, etc are well and good for business data, but simple stuff like music etc at home just is not important enough.

 

Also on topic of NAS - there is always an option to simply use a pc as one. You can use any old hardware you have, as long as it has few sata ports and lan its fine, does not need much performance. And there are plenty of options in terms of software you can use for relatively easy management/configuration on pc hardware too. Prebuilt units are nice, but they are rather expensive, I'd even say way overpriced for what they do, and IMO in many cases are overkill and not a good choice at home.

 

And then the question what to backup.

I personally do it like this - blindly backup everything, but only on relatively simple/unreliable storage without multiple backups etc. This is mostly to protect from user error, software bugs and occasional hdd/ssd failures. If this stuff is lost it'll be annoying, but not the end of the world.

Then I choose relatively small amount of data i really want to save (<500GB at this point), and for this stuff I have multiple copies on multiple systems including offsite ones.

Cannot really backup everything like this, it will be expensive and slow, since residential internet is basically limited to ~100Mbit where I live.

 

Speaking of cloud backup - it can be nice as secondary/offsite option, but as primary backup IMO it is bad. Having local copy you can restore in a matter of minutes is way more convenient than having to wait multiple days to download those multi-TB backups.

[Master Disaster]

14 minutes ago, Archer42 said:

I might be repeating myself, but honestly for simple backup at home all that's needed is external hdd and some software.

Everything else like NAS, raid arrays, etc is optional and IMO you need to really understand for what reason you are getting it, or you'll be just wasting money.

Disaster recovery, cloud backups, etc are well and good for business data, but simple stuff like music etc at home just is not important enough.

 

Also on topic of NAS - there is always an option to simply use a pc as one. You can use any old hardware you have, as long as it has few sata ports and lan its fine, does not need much performance. And there are plenty of options in terms of software you can use for relatively easy management/configuration on pc hardware too. Prebuilt units are nice, but they are rather expensive and IMO in many cases are overkill at home.

The point of having a NAS isn't so you can backup to it, that's just a bonus. The point of having a NAS is to have shared storage that's accessible from all your devices negating the need to keep multiple versions of the same files on different machines. The ability to run multiple internal network services from a single unit is also right up there.

 

Please don't try to tell me what's important to me. I'm a semi pro DJ with literally TBs of music, much of it I've bought at full cost from legitimate sources to get the best quality version available. If I lost my music collection it would be thousands of pounds down the drain. Its quite literally the most important thing on my NAS and the only thing I actually keep 3 copies of.

 

Recycling old hardware is indeed a legitimate option, the reason I avoid recommending it is running costs. My Synology uses 5w of power when idle and only peaks at 50w when under heavy load, anything you build (and especially from older hardware) is going to use at least double the high number when doing nothing. Plus like I've already said, for most people looking for network storage stability is very high up the list of priorities and you cannot guarantee you're second hand special isn't going to die on you in 2 months time.

[Archer42]

2 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

The point of having a NAS isn't so you can backup to it, that's just a bonus. The point of having a NAS is to have shared storage that's accessible from all your devices negating the need to keep multiple versions of the same files on different machines.

If that's needed that is. Also if you are using nas for storage you'll then need something else for backups. And IIRC we are talking primarily about backups here.

 

4 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Please don't try to tell me what's important to me. I'm a semi pro DJ with literally TBs of music, much of it I've bought at full cost from legitimate sources to get the best quality version available. If I lost my music collection it would be thousands of pounds down the drain. Its quite literally the most important thing on my NAS and the only thing I actually keep 3 copies of.

Funny.

What's generally important is any data which is unique and non-recoverable.

If you write music that's music for you, if you write software that'll be software.

Not sure why you thought i am telling you what's important to you when i was not even speaking to you in the first place.

 

6 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Recycling old hardware is indeed a legitimate option, the reason I avoid recommending it is running costs. My Synology uses 5w of power when idle and only peaks at 50w when under heavy load, anything you build (and especially from older hardware) is going to use at least double the high number when doing nothing.

You can buy itx board for like $50 which will have the same <5w idle as long as hdd-s are not spinning.

Also most modern-ish hardware (i'd say LGA755/AM2 and newer) has decent enough power management that with decent psu idle power consumption will be pretty low.

And then power costs are not always important. I, for example, pay ~5 cents/KWh. I do not care if nas eats 5w or 200w....

 

11 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Plus like I've already said, for most people looking for network storage stability is very high up the list of priorities and you cannot guarantee you're second hand special isn't going to die on you in 2 months time.

Any single device can die. Prebuilt or not. In a sense prebuilt units can be even worse here, as they can be harder to troubleshoot and recover. When you use basic pc components and free software fixing stuff is fast and easy. You just replace broken parts.  When psu dies in synology nas, for example, you'll have to wait for shipping and whatnot...