Need help with new AMD build

[Traumbrecher]

Hi all,

 

New to the forums here, first post. After 14 yrs of building my gaming PCs using Intel parts, I finally decided to switch things up and give AMD a go and see how good the Ryzen stuff really is. Was hoping for everything to just run smoothly like every other Intel build I've done before, but I have been racking my brain on this stupid build for over a week now and Googling all kinds of random Reddit threads and YouTube videos trying to figure out what's going wrong here. I'll list out the build specs below and then describe the issues I'm having so far:

 

- AMD Ryzen 9 3900X

- Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming motherboard

- G.SKILL Trident Z Neo (4x8GB) DDR4 3600 (F4-3600C16Q-32GTZNC)

- EVGA SuperNOVA 1000W P2 PSU

- Asus STRIX-GTX1080-O8G (carrying this forward for now from my last build, waiting for the new 30-series cards to release)

- Samsung 970 EVO M.2 2280 500GB NVMe (new)

- Various Samsung SATA6 SSDs and a couple old HDDs that have my files/games/etc.

- Windows 10 OS is currently installed already on one of the SATA6 SSDs (thus why I mention the NVMe drive is new because there's nothing on it yet)

- All crammed into a Lian Li LanCool II Mesh case loaded out with Corsair ML fans and that whole wiring mess it brings

- EK-Classic Kit P360 D-RGB (on the way, not installed yet - using the AMD wraith cooler the CPU came with for now)

 

So, everything is assembled, everything powers on good, lights up, yadda, yadda. Originally, I had this hooked up to my Samsung CHG90 monitor via DisplayPort and every time I would turn the system on, it'd run through all the Q-Code tests on the mobo, then get stuck on Q-Code 02 "AP initialization before microcode loading" and would not finish POST-ing or put up any image on the monitor, just a blank black screen, despite all the mobo lights being on, all the fans lit up and spinning, looking like a fully functioning system physically. After searching around and trying various things that I came across, I flashed the BIOS to the latest version on Asus' website with a USB stick, then tried again, same issue. More fiddling around and hunting, find out that some people suggest using a different monitor. Weird solution to a no-boot issue, but whatever, I'll give it a try. Grab my spare monitor I use for work with my laptop and hook it up via HDMI, power on system, oh look, now I can get to the American Megatrends screen where I press F1 to enter the BIOS (wtf?). Enter BIOS, RAM is defaulted to 2133MHz, so obviously I turn on DOCP to get the RAM running at the advertised speeds by G.SKILL (3600MHz 16-19-19-39). Save and exit, PC reboots, back to no image and just a black screen despite physically everything lighting up and spinning... Sometimes I'm still getting stuck on Q-Code 02 and sometimes it makes it to Q-Code 09 "AP initialization after microcode loading" and can't seem to find anything about what that even means, so it's not getting me anywhere. Pull the GPU out, remove CMOS battery, clear BIOS settings, put it back together, back to square 1. I can enter the BIOS and try to change some stuff, but every time I save and exit, it goes back to a black screen and won't load anything, stuck on Q-Code 09. At this point, I'm starting to suspect maybe a RAM incompatibility or something, but still not 100% sure. I used my work laptop to pull up the Ryzen RAM Calculator tool and tried plugging in the numbers it spit out to see if that helped, but nope, same black screen issue as before, ugh.

 

One thing I came across mentioned possibly a bad PSU causing the Q-Codes, so I unplugged the EVGA 1000W PSU and grabbed the old Corsair 600W PSU out of my wife's previous rig I just disassembled (see next paragraph for more on that). I hook up the 600W PSU to my rig, power it on, same issues as everything before while using the EVGA PSU, so I go ahead and rule out the PSU as not the issue here.

 

Luckily, I just happened to have scored a good deal on a Ryzen 2700X, ASRock mobo, Oloy RAM (2x16GB), and EVGA 2080 Super to rebuild my wife's gaming rig a couple weeks ago as well (also dropped in a new EVGA 850W PSU), and hers is running just fine. So naturally, I start part swapping to see if I can make the problem move between rigs. I stick my G.SKILL RAM in her rig and see if it'll boot. All 4 sticks in, everything works. I set XMP to 3600 in the BIOS, save and exit, it boot loops 3 times, then comes back up in the BIOS at 2133MHz again. Hmm, ok, strange, but at least the ASRock board is smart enough to just reset the RAM speed to the default when the memtest fails at 3600 (Asus should really take a note here so I don't have to keep pulling the stupid CMOS battery out to get the X570-E board to clear BIOS). Tried out the next step down in the XMP profiles next: 3400 failed, 3200 finally took and held. Did some more online searching and found that it seems like it's a fairly common issue for 4-DIMM kits to only hit 3200 MHz, but quite hard to get them to ramp up to 3600 with all 4 DIMMs populated. Wonderful.

 

Now, I at least have a path to follow on testing, so I put the G.SKILL RAM back in my new rig, boot it up, set DOCP to 3200, save and exit. It goes through the RAM training cycles, then comes back up to the BIOS showing 3200MHz applied. Hurray, I'm finally getting somewhere (I begin to think). But wait, there's more (thanks, Billy Mays)! While I'm still going through BIOS settings trying to set up other stuff, it randomly reboots in the middle of me changing settings and then comes back up into the BIOS again, but now every 2 seconds after loading the BIOS, it boot loops. So BIOS loads, 2 seconds, restart, BIOS loads, 2 seconds, restart, repeat ad infinitum. Great, now I'm back to pulling the GPU, pulling the CMOS battery, clearing the BIOS, and back to square 1 yet again with the RAM only loading up and not restarting on me if I leave it at the default 2133 MHz. I really don't want to nerf myself that hard by running at 2133 just to get past the BIOS, so I'm reaching out for help here and hoping someone else who's overcome this issue already can steer me in the right direction.

 

Another issue I'm running into as well is that my BIOS can see all the SSDs/HDDs I have plugged into the SATA ports, but they're all grayed out and I can't access the Boot Priority options, thus I can't even get into my Windows OS even if I do leave the RAM at 2133 currently. My NVMe drive is physically installed, but not even showing up in the BIOS, either.

 

Starting to regret my decision to go Ryzen here so far and wish I'd just done another Intel build, but I don't want to give up on this thing yet. Plz halp.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Guest]

WHOAHMAN that's a book!!!

 

Try to help. Understanding first, then decide what you do later. 

Check this out.

 

Your Rig, mainly the board and Cpu memory controller does NOT like this kit of memory 1st off.

F4-3600C16Q-32GTZNC  DDR4-3600MHz CL16-19-19-39 1.35V 32GB (4x8GB)

Even running just two of these sticks above to reach 3600mhz might even be difficult.

OK touching on that, obviously overclocking 2 sticks is easier than 4 sticks.

It's easier to overclock 16gb vs 32gb of memory.

 

The best stick of memory to have is 2x8gb Samsung B-Die.

32GB is expensive, but that really depends on if you really want and need the rainbow puke.

 

Now the 2700X has an IMC capability of only 2933mhz. Above this can be a pain in the butt with budget memory.

Not always, but most of the time. This chip would actually clock up B-die very well, the IMC will stop at 4000mhz.

 

The 3900X build is good for 3200mhz with the IMC, but again that 16gb vs 32gb and how the IMC likes it.

A faster kit of B-die for this build would be pleasurable. Easily run 3733mhz with the right set of memory.

 

All that said, I will place here a couple of examples of B-Die if you so wish to take an adventure with memory tweaking.

 

This kit will OC very well in comparison to what you have now. https://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-20-232-437&tpk=9b-20-232-437

Same kit different color, little lower price. 99 bucks, 16gb of B-Die, likely A2 PCB and B-Grade temp rating.

https://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-20-232-194&tpk=9b-20-232-194

 

Even these doubled up for 32GB total will do pretty good depending on how the IMC goes. 

 

Edit: B-die rainbow puke Kit 32GB 4x8gb 16-16-16-36, same as above kits, but pay for flashy thingy.

https://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-20-232-862&tpk=9b-20-232-862

[Traumbrecher]

Ok, so I'm happy to know my intuition was on the right path about the RAM being the issue here. I already ordered a set of F4-3600C16Q-32GTZSW last week that's supposed to arrive tomorrow to test out (https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232585?Item=N82E16820232585) and then I'll RMA the Trident Z Neo kit I have now. If that one still gives me the same issues, then I'll have a 2nd RMA on my hands to deal with and then start contemplating whether I really need 32GB of RAM or if I just want 32GB of RAM lol.

 

Alternatively, if you are correct about the F4-3600C16Q-32GTZN kit working with my board/CPU, I may grab that kit and see what kind of mileage I can get (since I was pretty set on having all the RGB things because I felt like a rainbow puke build this time haha). I'm coming from a Cooler Master HAF 932 Advanced case (loaded out with all 10 fan bays populated), i7-4790k + H100i v2 push/pull, Asus Maximus VII Hero, 2x8GB Corsair DDR3 1833MHz, Rosewill 850W Lightning PSU. It's still a solid build and all, but I figured I'd take advantage of the new RGB controls on everything so I can change it up whenever I feel like it without having to buy new fans for a different color and also have a rig that looks more 2020 and less 2010.

 

Appreciate your knowledge and input, I'll post up my results after I get my RAM delivery tomorrow and see if everything boots like it should.

[Traumbrecher]

Ok, so, I got my updated kit in today (UPS delays...) of G.SKILL Trident Z Neo F4-3600C16D-16GTZN (2x8GB of CL16-16-16-36) since trying to get full speed out of the 32GB kit seems like more trouble/lottery than its worth for me. Popped them in and booted up into the BIOS, set DOCP and restarted. It seems like it's able to at least set the DOCP profile this time without bricking the BIOS again. Then, I tried using the self-tuner just to throw a small OC onto the 3900X and I'm back to black screen and no image displayed. Not to mention, I STILL cannot for some reason get the BIOS to show up period if I use my 49" monitor with DisplayPort, so I keep having to run HDMI over to my spare work monitor just to see the BIOS in the first place. I also have the boot options all greyed out, even though the mobo recognizes all of the SSDs, HDDs, and NVMe plugged in. I can't get it to attempt to boot to any of the drives, what gives?

I'm starting to think this motherboard is the issue, not the RAM... Thoughts on that? (Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming motherboard)

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Traumbrecher said:

Ok, so, I got my updated kit in today (UPS delays...) of G.SKILL Trident Z Neo F4-3600C16D-16GTZN (2x8GB of CL16-16-16-36) since trying to get full speed out of the 32GB kit seems like more trouble/lottery than its worth for me. Popped them in and booted up into the BIOS, set DOCP and restarted. It seems like it's able to at least set the DOCP profile this time without bricking the BIOS again. Then, I tried using the self-tuner just to throw a small OC onto the 3900X and I'm back to black screen and no image displayed. Not to mention, I STILL cannot for some reason get the BIOS to show up period if I use my 49" monitor with DisplayPort, so I keep having to run HDMI over to my spare work monitor just to see the BIOS in the first place. I also have the boot options all greyed out, even though the mobo recognizes all of the SSDs, HDDs, and NVMe plugged in. I can't get it to attempt to boot to any of the drives, what gives?

I'm starting to think this motherboard is the issue, not the RAM... Thoughts on that? (Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming motherboard)

OK, well the memory controller is good for 3200mhz. So you'd start the overclocking from here, not always does DOCP or XMP post straight away even with B-Die memory. Remember, more sticks and larger amounts are a strain on the memory controller.

 

Since you have a 4 stick kit, remove two sticks. Leave 16GB in channels A2 and B2. Then maybe the XMP profile will work better.

 

As far as some of the settings being "grayed out", I'm not sure what you mean or in what menu, HOWEVER, you can always hit F8 instead of F2 and perhaps then you can select the proper boot device of choice.

 

Run the 49TV on the HDMI cable. That's primary input most of the time anyways.

 

Do any and all of the above or w.e. testing you'd like to do, but when in doubt clear cmos (or set all defaults in bios) and try again.

And do the drives get grayed out after the clear cmos? Have you ever updated the bios on this board?

 

[Deli]

I build three Ryzen systems and have none of the problem you mentioned. I even re-use the very old Corsair 2x16GB 3000MHz C15 for my R5 3600 build. That set of RAM was the early batch DDR4 when Intel X99 was launched, I can even OC it to 3200MHz C15 absolutely stable. My main rig with 3900X, running 64GB RAM 3400MHz C16. Zen2 is pretty easy with RAM.

 

After you try two set of RAM. I also think it's the motherboard causing the problem.

[Traumbrecher]

The new kit is a 2-DIMM kit (2x8GB 3600MHz CL16-16-16-36) and I'm currently testing with just those 2 sticks in, no more. (And yes, they're in A2 and B2.)

 

All of the drives show up in grey text under the Advanced > SATA Configuration section. However, when I go over to the Boot tab, the Boot Option Priorities selection is greyed out and I cannot select it, Boot Override is greyed out and cannot select it.

 

My 49" is a Samsung ultrawide monitor (model # CHG90), not a TV. It worked over DisplayPort just fine with the same GTX1080 card in my previous build with the i7-4790K, so not sure why it would suddenly stop reading the DP and only want to work over HDMI (going to be a PITA if I have to un-cable manage my desk to swap the monitor over to an HDMI cable, so trying to avoid that until there's absolutely no other option).

 

Yes, I've flashed the latest BIOS (version 2606) for this board directly from Asus' website using a jump drive and the EZ flash tool. This was done prior to my first post starting this thread, so I've been on version 2606 this whole time.

 

All of these issues are persistent from one boot to the next, even after clearing CMOS every time (which with this board requires unplugging the power cord from the PSU, removing the GPU to get to the CMOS battery underneath it, removing the battery for 5 minutes, and holding the power button for at least 30 seconds while the battery is out). Every time it fails to do something after trying to apply a DOCP profile, it's very annoying to have to do this and kill 5 minutes of time before I can try again.

 

Deli, I think you're right, I'm starting to think this board is just having issues and I should send it back and get a different mobo and hope for better luck.

[Traumbrecher]

Just for kicks, I tried applying a DOCP set to only 3200 MHz on the RAM. It booted back up into the BIOS and showed it applied, then while poking around in other menus, it just restarted itself and back to black screen once more with a Q-Code error 07 "AP initialization after microcode loading" and the DRAM error light lit up on the motherboard... Ugh.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Traumbrecher said:

Just for kicks, I tried applying a DOCP set to only 3200 MHz on the RAM. It booted back up into the BIOS and showed it applied, then while poking around in other menus, it just restarted itself and back to black screen once more with a Q-Code error 07 "AP initialization after microcode loading" and the DRAM error light lit up on the motherboard... Ugh.

Ah good informations. 

Sounds like the board needs an RMA as you where suspecting. You definitely shouldn't have menus grayed out in that board.

 

Shmh

[Traumbrecher]

Yep, appreciate the sanity check, guys. First time in a long time I've gotten a bad part, so just wanted to make damn sure I've done my due diligence lol.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Traumbrecher said:

Yep, appreciate the sanity check, guys. First time in a long time I've gotten a bad part, so just wanted to make damn sure I've done my due diligence lol.

There was a lot to read. 

But based on what you're saying, I think the gut feeling is right. 

 

The bios may have taken some corruption while trying to oc the memory. Never know, but could try and reflash the bios, but that's high risk proceedure with the issues you've described, such as, restarting while making changes in bios. Unless that was a thermal issue.....

[Traumbrecher]

CPU was sitting around 46* C in BIOS with the stock auto voltage the board boots up with (1.456-ish V). Changed it down to 1.3500V manual and it dropped a few degrees while just sitting in BIOS, but still way under thermal threshold.

 

I'll try reflashing the BIOS one more time and see if I just get lucky.

[Traumbrecher]

Oh, happy day! I report back with great news!

 

I FINALLY got my mobo working right last night after stumbling across another thread on the forums here that was having a similar issue to mine not showing the boot options. Turns out, I had to enable CSM (Compatibility Support Mode) and then enable both UEFI and Legacy boot options. Apparently, my old SSDs and HDDs, even though they were UEFI in my old system, count as "Legacy" on this new rig (I guess it's trying to tell me my shit is old lmao). Finally, I was able to get booted into Windows (at this point with the stock 2133 RAM speed because I decided to focus my energies on getting into Windows at the very least instead of burning cycles on the RAM OC) and install drivers, RyzenMaster, etc. and everything now works.

 

I still have no luck getting the 3900X to run the RAM at 3600MHz speeds, but I think that's simply due to the 3900X internal memory controller (IMC) only supporting up to 3200MHz (as you previously mentioned) and I clearly didn't win any sort of silicon lottery with my chip. Oh well, live and learn and move on, the sacrifices you make when buying an HEDT-style chip for gaming I guess... But screw it, I can finally use this new build and now I'm just waiting on the 30-series GPUs to be in stock to finish the upgrade. Yay!  I am at least able to get the RAM to run the DOCP profile at 3200 MHz with 16-16-16-36 timings, so I've decide to just set it and forget it and stop tinkering with it and having to clear the BIOS again and again. It works, the Aura Sync controls the RGB, and really that extra 400 Mhz is not worth all the headache I've been having just for a couple extra FPS. 

 

Also, I ran RealBench last night for kicks and this CPU destroyed the simultaneous CPU/GPU bench load. The 3900X finished its part of the task and went back to idling while the GTX 1080 was still cranking through its portion lmao. Beast mode!

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Traumbrecher said:

Snipped!

Hey that's really great to hear. CSM.... I'm a dummy for not thinking about that lol. Sorry I dropped the ball on you there.

 

Yeah that memory will perform very well with Any cpu. 

If I had that kit in my 8700K, bet it would have no issues at 3600mhz XMP settings, so that's what the difference is between Intel and AMD when it comes to memory frequency timings and such, Intel has DDR4 memory controller very refined being in for a few years more than AMD has been utilizing it.  

 

Glad you're up and running again. Sorry I couldn't have been of better help. But good job figuring it out!!

[Traumbrecher]

1 minute ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Hey that's really great to hear. CSM.... I'm a dummy for not thinking about that lol. Sorry I dropped the ball on you there.

 

Yeah that memory will perform very well with Any cpu. 

If I had that kit in my 8700K, bet it would have no issues at 3600mhz XMP settings, so that's what the difference is between Intel and AMD when it comes to memory frequency timings and such, Intel has DDR4 memory controller very refined being in for a few years more than AMD has been utilizing it.  

 

Glad you're up and running again. Sorry I couldn't have been of better help. But good job figuring it out!!

Hey, no worries, man, I greatly appreciate the help you gave me as far as the 3900X and RAM timing capabilities!

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Traumbrecher said:

Hey, no worries, man, I greatly appreciate the help you gave me as far as the 3900X and RAM timing capabilities!

Pretty much anything past that 3200mhz is "overclocking". It's a gamble. 

 

Extreme overclockers like myself (Use of LN2 Dice ect) cannot suggest high voltages because we know we can get the memory going faster.

But my job HERE is to give you safe numbers you can use daily. 

It'll go faster, but at what risk? At what cost? Should I be the blame if I suggest to use 1.30v SOC voltage and it bricks the IF or IMC because of heat? The temps matter. The Cpu temps and even the memory temps.

 

So with that kit of B-Die, you can view the memory temps in HWInfor64. Your goal is keeping memory definately under 50c and under 40c would be ideal OC conditions. Colder is better, because you can utilize the colder temps for extra voltage.

 

In example, when I'm really cranking hard on my B-Die for benchmarking (competitive) purposes, I'm usually around 1.60v on my memory kit. 

Very actively cooled. 2x 60mm fans right on the memory full blast. 

[Traumbrecher]

I definitely agree with that, safe numbers are the best recommendations for a PC that's just daily driven and not using any exotic cooling solutions.